Thinking of Trading - Advice Much Appreciated

[new_trader]

Your are under the misguided belief that losing money is not part and parcel of trading, exactly as winning money is.

I've made far too many trades for you to make any ill considered comments about what I think trading is or is not.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I've made far too many trades for you to make any ill considered comments about what I think trading is or is not.

Then demonstrate how exactly you don't lose in trades in the forum contest. BS assertions ain't no good where I am standing.

 

[the hare]

Then demonstrate how exactly you don't lose in trades in the forum contest. BS assertions ain't no good where I am standing.

FWIW new trader is one of the very few whose ever made anything like decent calls at the zoo.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

FWIW new trader is one of the very few whose ever made anything like decent calls at the zoo.

Well, I missed it. Perhaps he should make another call so that I could verify his accuracy this time. Seriously, when I am on the hunt for lulz, I am not easily fobbed off.

 

[new_trader]

Then demonstrate how exactly you don't lose in trades in the forum contest. BS assertions ain't no good where I am standing.

Demonstrate exactly where I said that I don't make losing trades. Trading alone is not enough to guarantee success in trading. Just 'doing' isn't enough because trading isn't a mechanical skill that you can simply learn by rote. You imply that blowing an account is a pre-requisite for success and I say that is unfounded and spurious. Sure, there are many people who blew their accounts a few times before attaining untold wealth, but I'm sure for every one of those there are at least 1000 people you've never heard of and most likely never will because they blew their accounts and gave up or continued and died poor.

 

[enragedcow]

get a textbook such as technical analysis by kirkpatrick 2 and dahlquist

then trade on demo till you are used to working the platform

then trade at 10c or 10p a pip until you find a way to trade that suits you

welcome to a long journey, we're all here alongside you (cheesy anime song)

 

[the hare]

Well, I missed it. Perhaps he should make another call so that I could verify his accuracy this time. Seriously, when I am on the hunt for lulz, I am not easily fobbed off.

You are unfortunate that you missed a great deal of quality content that used to exist here at the zoo but is now long gone.

life's a bitch sometimes, but at least there's no shortage of lulz.

 

[Pat494]

get a textbook such as technical analysis by kirkpatrick 2 and dahlquist

then trade on demo till you are used to working the platform

then trade at 10c or 10p a pip until you find a way to trade that suits you

welcome to a long journey, we're all here alongside you (cheesy anime song)

Just for instance

what if you have loads of money and are a newbie starting out ?
You might well say to yourself - I haven't the time/brains etc. to spend 10 years or more trying to make a system, why don't I spend some dough and buy a working system and start making money straight from the word go ?
Where would you look to find such a system ?

 

[the hare]

Where would you look to find such a system ?

Certainly not at T2W. The point is that unless you understand the game, and have developed the necessary skills to trade profitably you wouldnt be in a position to differentiate between a genuine system and a pile of ****e. If you where tthen here are no end of verification sites (ranging from completely fraudulant to reasonably reliable) where you can sort out the wheat from the chaff

The bigger problem however is that you wouldnt have developed the correct psychology to trade. Whilst you might intellectually understand the concept of edge, its a far different thing practically applying the edge day to day. Its hard enough doing this stuff when you undertand the edge being exploited, I suspect its practically impossible trading a black box and not undertanding what the hell is going on.

I dont think you should underestimate the IT issues either.

Then you have a whole bunch of other factors matching a given system with personal risk tolerance, trade duration, trade frequency, capital requirements, required return, drawdown etc. Its pretty pointless buying a system that requires 5M in capital if you only have a 5K account. Its pointless buying a system that regularly see's 30% drawdown if you have a tolerance of 10% etc etc.

Systems that make money really are 10 a penny, that really isnt the problem

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Stop immediately whatever you are doing if the delusion of paying $100 for a system that can make $1000 is taking hold. It is time to do something different before the delusion expands to making $10,000 from a $100 system. If the delusion grows to making $100,000 from a $100 system, then you are at the terminal phase, beyond all cure.

 

[anthonyb]

Demoncouk why don't you speak to your client and find out how he achieved success in the market, at least you know him, and you can vouch for his results.

 

[Demoncouk]

I have spoken to him, he holds 30-40 stocks for a period of normally 6-8 weeks, some longer, some shorter.

He is buying normal stocks, not doing anything like spread betting or any of the 'complicated' things I see here.

He reads financial reports/press and use's his 'feelings' to stock pick after looking at the various stats, graphs etc available.

That is a poor explaination of what he does, I have another meeting with him to see if I can get a more complete picture.

On a different note its interesting reading this thread, I can't get a clear message on who to listen to as there is lots of different opinions, some people seem to be saying don't bother, some start small and see etc..

Just for clarity, the 100k is not 'my life savings' , I have 4-5 other ventures, own 3 franchise's where the initial investment was far in excess of 100k. I had no experience in those either.

The IFA practice is where I earn my 'living expenses', the others make profit which I normally reinvest. Once the IFA practice is sold I want to do something else, hence trading.

I don't want to wait 10 years to get the experience, its the same mentality as the franchise model, you pay for experience and a proven method of doing something. The results however are entirely down to the individual.

As before I would happily pay for someone to train me, I fully understand that its not a magic 'money making' machine after that, however with the right approach people must be making money or why is everyone here ?

I might spend 5k on training and find that its not a suitable business for me, thats part of the investment into any new venture, some will be successful some wont..

So I really do need a mentor / trainer so that I can get enough information to make an informed decision, any volunteers ?

Once again thanks for all the responses, I have read every one so your time has not been watsed in responding..

 

[the hare]

I don't want to wait 10 years to get the experience.....

Trading is extremely simple. Its so simple that even creatures such as rats are able to do it.

http://www.rattraders.com/

Its not really the mechanics that are the issue. If you have 5-10K to spend on training then you could probably do a lot worse than having a word with John Joseph at nextdsystems.com. (I have no affiliation, or commercial interests in this company, I mention them only because they know the score, and I believe they have a publically audited track record)

The problem is none of this knowledge is of very much benefit without experience, and thats going to take you 10,15 maybe even 20 thousand hours.

By the time you've put in those hours you wont need a system or a mentor. I'd argue that until you've spent a couple of years dabbling you are not even in a position to undertand the type of mentor you require. Finding someone who matches your specific requirements is exceedingly difficult, and its highly likely that you wont find them, they'll find you.

 

[Pat494]

This thread might be worth your while having a look

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/general-trading-chat/129182-buying-profitable-system.html

 

[timsk]

Once again thanks for all the responses, I have read every one so your time has not been watsed in responding.

Hi Demoncouk,
I take it then that the answer to my earlier question is 'no'!

Given your comments about a mentor / coach, I suggest you take a gander at these FAQs;
How Can I Distinguish Between Scams and Reputable Vendors?
Can You Recommend a Mentor, Coach or Trading Course?
The 2nd thread make the same connection that you do with the franchise model, and explains why it's not applicable to aspiring traders like yourself.
Enjoy!
Tim.

 

[Demoncouk]

@ Timsk ,

I have previously looked at both the threads and understand that finding a coach or mentor is difficult as it depends on the individual seeking the coaching.

I need sufficient information to decide if I should invest/pursue this or not...

Practical information ie.;

What trading software should I start with ?
How much should I trade, nothing ( dummy account ) or something ?
Which broker do I use, or do I need one ?
Should I 'day trade' or take a longer view.

Its those type of questions and a million more that I hope to get answered by a mentor, not which stock to pick or which system etc.

These boards are great but the wealth of information is difficult to digest especially with so many contradictory views, so I feel I need 'my hand held' to start.

 

[Demoncouk]

Just a final update for a while, I have accepted an offer from someone to 'hold my hand', part of that offer is that I don't ask for any further advice, which I am happy to accept.

The offer did not include me paying any money to the individual..

Many thanks to all who responded to my initial post, I hope to post again once I have started doing something.

Kind regards,

 

[timsk]

@ Timsk ,

I have previously looked at both the threads and understand that finding a coach or mentor is difficult as it depends on the individual seeking the coaching.

I need sufficient information to decide if I should invest/pursue this or not...

Practical information ie.;

What trading software should I start with ?
How much should I trade, nothing ( dummy account ) or something ?
Which broker do I use, or do I need one ?
Should I 'day trade' or take a longer view.

Its those type of questions and a million more that I hope to get answered by a mentor, not which stock to pick or which system etc.

These boards are great but the wealth of information is difficult to digest especially with so many contradictory views, so I feel I need 'my hand held' to start.

Hi Demoncouk,
No one can answer these questions for you - you have to do that yourself. So, if I were you, I'd be extremely wary of anyone who tries to lead down one path in preference to another. A good mentor will help you to arrive at your own conclusions - but you ought to be able to do that by yourself from reading the Stickies, Articles and FAQs on here. Beware: one man's meat is another man's poison.

In your subsequent post you say that you've found someone to 'hold your hand'. I hope it works out well for you. As a matter of interest, how have you overcome the obvious catch-22 that you're green about the gills and, by definition, you're not easily going to be able to distinguish between someone who's going to fast track you to trading superstardom from someone who's going to lead you down a cul-de-sac - or worse?
Tim.

 

[Demoncouk]

@ Timsk,

Person is a legendary member, does not want paying, and when I asked some questions that were important to me I got a response that was balanced and sensible.

Starting off with a demo account and learning from there.

Sometimes you just have to make a decision and go with it

If it does not work out then I feel sure it will be down to my own shortcommings not the individual 'holding my hand'.

However not risking any real £'s as yet as it would be stupid ..

 

[the hare]

Person is a legendary member ..