Thinking of Trading - Advice Much Appreciated

[0007]

Could you handle probably only 25% of your trades making real money, 50% breaking even and the rest losing?

That is so important. Until I realised that it was neither possible nor necessary to be right all the time I couldn't make progress. I spent ages looking for ways to make every trade a profitable one. Like most people and most endeavours, you want to be right - common sense tells you so doesn't it? But it's not the case here and having come into trading from a background where being wrong too often would end up killing you, I found this one of the hardest things to overcome.

 

[Ambrose Ackroyd]

Why put 50 or a 100 grand into a high risk venture that you are not proficient at ?

If you really want to do trading put 5 grand into a spread betting account.

Start small and compound as you go along.

You won't need to make a withdrawal for a long time.

Provided you can make regular gains and can increase your stake regularly, you might be surprised to see how fast the whole thing builds up.

The crux of the matter is, can you make regular gains on a consistent basis ?

I have heard one trader say that it is quite possible to make £ 1000 per month with a £ 1000 pot, but I would suggest that you have to be pretty damn good to do that.

Or, since you have so much spare cash why don't you buy the Holy Grail.

You can pm me to discuss prices.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

If you really want to do trading put 5 grand into a spread betting account.

That's very irresponsible of you to ask the OP to throw away 5% of his capital. Let's have no illusions about it, no matter how many books he reads, or how many mentors he goes with, he's going to lose his initial account. This is just the way it is, and the market is extremely hostile to new comers who think it is a free cash machine, and by pressing a few button, crisp new bank notes will come out of it.

 

[Ambrose Ackroyd]

I don't agree BJ - I never lost my initial account and neither do a lot of people.

And who said he only had a hundred grand anyway ?

He is suggesting putting £ 100,000 into a trading account so I reckon he's got a few more bob stashed away somewhere.

 

[the hare]

Let's have no illusions about it, no matter how many books he reads, or how many mentors he goes with, he's going to lose his initial account.

Absolute nonsense. Not everyone is completely stupid.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Absolute nonsense. Not everyone is completely stupid.

Losing the first account is not stupid. Even the biggest of them lose their accounts again and again. Great risks comes with great rewards. No risk comes with, well, nothing worth mentioning.

Perhaps you have yet to see the road to success is paved with failures. These are essential milestones. If you can achieve success with no failure, then you should be richer than all of us.

 

[Ambrose Ackroyd]

Perhaps you have yet to see the road to success is paved with failures. These are essential milestones.

Yes, but not to the extent of losing your whole account.

To suggest that losing your initial account is a given, is boll*cks.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Yes, but not to the extent of losing your whole account.

To suggest that losing your initial account is a given, is boll*cks.

Losing your account doesn't necessarily mean having the account closed. If you start with 5k in the account, after awhile, you have to add more money because of losses. In effect, that's losing your account.

It would be boll*cks if people claim they made money from the word go and never had to add in more money because of losses. The cost of education had to be paid for, like it or not.

 

[Ambrose Ackroyd]

It would be boll*cks if people claim they made money from the word go and never had to add in more money because of losses. The cost of education had to be paid for, like it or not.

Yes, I would go along with that.

 

[Pat494]

My bit of advice to a newbie is find and learn the best for you trading platform from the beginning. I made the mistake of learning Metastock and now have to start again and learn a new one because Ms isn't a proper trading platform.

 

[the hare]

Losing your account doesn't necessarily mean having the account closed. If you start with 5k in the account, after awhile, you have to add more money because of losses. In effect, that's losing your account.

Why would anyone in their right mind do that ?

They are either have gambling issues, or they are deluding themselves that they are more advanced in their development than they really are. You add to an account when you are sure the edge is working, you dont add when all evidence suggests that you have no edge (unless you are trading for entertainment, or just plain stupid)

Trading to lose money isnt a good idea, nor is having a punt.

As Mr Socco always says, the markets need more cannon fodder

 

[timsk]

Can anyone recommend a mentor or a course - I did look at Tradenet but after reading the forum here have doubts about their offering.

Any and all advice appreciated.

Hi Demoncouk,
Welcome to T2W. Can I ask - soon after you registered with T2W (within 2-3 days) - did you receive the e-mail below?
Cheers,
Tim.

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[bedsit]

I currently trade as an Independent Financial Adviser, been doing that for 15+ years.

Thinking of selling and doing some form of trading.

This would be a semi-retirement type situation, 4-5 hours per day apx.

I would have capital of £ 50k - £ 100k, and would be looking to make a profit of £ 12k - £ 25 k as a minimum per year, i.e 25%.

I would need a mentor / course to teach me the basics and get me started. I obviously would pay for this.

Can anyone please confirm if the above time spent & possible returns are realistic with the right training.

Can anyone recommend a mentor or a course - I did look at Tradenet but after reading the forum here have doubts about their offering.

Any and all advice appreciated.

Thanks in advance

You are thinking about making 25% a year minimum - that's close to the best performers (all kind of traders included). So far as retail traders are concerned - less than 3 in 100 are profitable.

Maybe if you can try to find if there are any among the best traders willing to show you how to trade successfully. That may be expensive (lessons) and still there is no guarantee (all sort of different factors may affect your performance). Good to be choosy when looking for potential trainers - may be a good idea to ask them to produce verifiable record of their results for at least three years.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Why would anyone in their right mind do that ?

They are either have gambling issues, or they are deluding themselves that they are more advanced in their development than they really are. You add to an account when you are sure the edge is working, you dont add when all evidence suggests that you have no edge (unless you are trading for entertainment, or just plain stupid)

Trading to lose money isnt a good idea, nor is having a punt.

As Mr Socco always says, the markets need more cannon fodder

Well, I guess you are the only one who hasn't lost money when starting out. The fact that you are still here, you are unlikely to have made much either. You gain nothing from risking nothing. As for your edge, I doubt it's much of one.

How about putting your virtual money where your mouth is and show us in the forum contest your edge ?

I find it psychologically interesting many people are afraid of the contest. I am working on teasing out the why.

 

[the hare]

Well, I guess you are the only one who hasn't lost money when starting out. The fact that you are still here, you are unlikely to have made much either. You gain nothing from risking nothing. As for your edge, I doubt it's much of one.

I visit T2W for lulz, and I'm rarely disapointed

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I visit T2W for lulz, and I'm rarely disapointed

Yes, of course. I see nothing wrong with lulz. But when people make unreasonable claims, I will go after them. The lulz then becomes mine. So I suggest you be careful how you set yourself up, or it will come back to bite you in the ass.

 

[the hare]

Yes, of course. I see nothing wrong with lulz. But when people make unreasonable claims, I will go after them. The lulz then becomes mine. So I suggest you be careful how you set yourself up, or it will come back to bite you in the ass.

What claims have I made that you feel are unreasonable ?

I simply cant understand why someone would continually re fund an account when their performance is proving to them that they have no edge. Its a form of self sabotage which sadly seams to be quite common in traders.

 

[new_trader]

I simply cant understand why someone would continually re fund an account when their performance is proving to them that they have no edge. Its a form of self sabotage which sadly seams to be quite common in traders.

Because he is under the misguided belief that one should just keep trading and losing money until they start winning, as if it is an inevitable outcome.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

What claims have I made that you feel are unreasonable ?

I simply cant understand why someone would continually re fund an account when their performance is proving to them that they have no edge. Its a form of self sabotage which sadly seams to be quite common in traders.

You shouldn't talk about the edge if you don't have one yourself. Just repeating a cliche does not make you wise. Go on then, demonstrate your edge using the forum contest.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Because he is under the misguided belief that one should just keep trading and losing money until they start winning, as if it is an inevitable outcome.

Your are under the misguided belief that losing money is not part and parcel of trading, exactly as winning money is.