The REAL global warming

Motorway Privatisation- More tax on thin air, under the guise of climate saving, to revive the battered public finances and further impoverish the taxpayer.

“This is an attractive, positive idea which could release considerable resources to the public finances and may have real environmental merits,” Cable said. “The scale of it is vast — it makes rail privatisation look like small beer.”

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/t...ectors/banking_and_finance/article6814923.ece

In NYC, the Lincoln Tunnel is seriously overused because it's seriously underpriced. In Hong Kong, two tunnels operated on the profit motive will get you through faster than the single one operated by the government, because of course the government-run one has nice, low tolls.
So, you can either control demand for a resource through price or through shortage (which in road terms means traffic jams). Looks like in your story they're talking about controlling it through price. Which, of course, is how markets work.
What will they think of next? The mind boggles.
 
So much is said about the data used to prove the current AGW and of course any question about the data that doesn't fit the mantra will immediately be dismissed with the usual arrogance and high minded attitude of those who think they are indisputedly correct and above suspicion. So for the more "open-minded" that montmorencyt2w so aptly phrased here is an interesting comparison of data.

from http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/303


Why the Basic Ground-measured Global Temperature Data Presented by AGW Supporters Is Suspect
Alan Carlin | August 28, 2009

One of the basic problems in reaching rational conclusions with regard to global climate change problems is that AGW proponents and skeptics largely use different data sources and very different analyses of the global temperature data to support their cases.

Global Temperatures According to NOAA ~ if charts don't appear click this link http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/303
Global Temperatures According to NOAA (click to enlarge)
This first chart shows a typical global temperature chart similar to those often used by AGW supporters. Like most such charts, it represents global temperatures based on ground-based readings, and is apparently constructed by smoothing annual data. It shows the familiar “hockey stick” emphasizing the rise in temperatures since the mid-1970s that has become so familiar in AGW presentations.
The Satellite Data Shows What Appears to Be a Very Different Picture


And Using Satellite Data ~ again if no chart it will be on the above link ~ 2nd chart
And Using Satellite Data (click to enlarge)
AGW supporters almost never use satellite data on near-ground temperatures despite its availability since 1978. This second chart shows what appears to be a very different picture using it. One would think that the two sources of data would yield quite similar trends and have important similarities since they attempt to measure air temperatures so close to each other. But this appears initially not to be the case.

What the satellite data shows is a roughly flat trend with 3-5 year cycles from 1978 through about 1996. This cycle appears to be closely related to the El Nino Southern Oscillation (ENSO) which shows a very similar pattern. But the flat trend shows no obvious effects from the increasing atmospheric CO2 levels during this crucial period for the AGW’s point of view.

Then in 1998 there was a large spike in temperatures (which appears to be largely unexplained by anyone and has no obvious relation to changes in CO2 levels) that occurred just when the 3-5 year cycle might have been expected to bottom.

In the early 21st Century the same essentially flat pattern of 3-5 year cycles appears to reestablish itself in the satellite data but at a slightly higher temperature until a breakdown occurred in late 2007 back down towards what may turn out to be the original levels in the 1978-96 period.

So it appears that the the two charts suggest very different things. The AGW presentation obscures the 3-5 ENSO cycle and emphasizes what appears to be a fairly steady increase in temperatures from the 1970s on that makes the presumed influence of rising CO2 more plausible. The satellite chart, on the other hand, highlights the ENSO cycle and the abrupt changes in 1998, and makes the presumed influence of CO2 appear implausible.

Comparison of Ground (blue) and Satellite (red) Temps ~ again if no chart it will be on the above link ~ 3rd chart
Ground (blue) and Satellite (red) Temps (click to enlarge)
If both monthly ground-based and satellite data are combined on one chart (the third one), there appear to be more similarities between the two charts. In the 1978-96 period the ground data (highlighted in blue) appears to increasingly diverge from the satellite data and increases during the 1978-96 period rather than showing the flat trend exhibited by the satellite data. But there appear to be substantial similarities between the two data sets thereafter.

So in the ground-based case there appears to be a gradual rise in temperatures during 1978-2005 which appears to be at least somewhat consistent with the increase in CO2 levels. And in the satellite case there is no visual support for a gradual increase or any apparent role for CO2 during the whole period.
Increasing Reason to Question the Ground-based Data

There is increasing reason to question the basic ground-based data as well as the rationale for the AGW interpretation of it. There have been a number of studies suggesting that ground-based data is severely compromised by urban heat island effects, inappropriate placement of monitors that increase recorded temperatures over what they would have been if the instruments had been properly cited, and the drop-out of a large number of rural stations in the 1970s. The urban heat island effects arise because urban areas retain heat much more than non-urban areas and many urban areas in the US and elsewhere expanded rapidly in the late 20th Century. This may have been accentuated by the decision to drop many rural sites. So prior to 1997 the upward bias in the ground-based temperatures may represent little more than the results of these three effects.

In addition, there are many reports that the ground data has been subjected to substantial and often repeated adjustments for various factors. In the case of the crucial HadCRUT ground-based data developed in Great Britain, and the source most often used by the United Nations, the custodian has refused to release the data and their manipulations of it and recently said that they have not even retained the original observations. So it now appears to be impossible to reconstruct exactly what the custodian may have done with the data despite the fact that this is the data most often relied upon by AGW supporters to make their case. Finally, the heavily smoothed ground-based annual data appears to hide rather than illuminate what has actually happened.

For more information on the problems with the ground-based data see here

So what should we make of this seemingly perplexing but very important battle of the global temperature charts? A reasonable interpretation is that the AGW charts cleverly hide the ENSO cycle through use of annual data, heavy smoothing, and questionable data and show a gradual increase in temperatures starting in the mid-1970s due to an upward bias in the data. But If monthly data are used, no smoothing is carried out, and the increasing ground-based temperature data during 1978-96 is assumed to be replaced with the flat trend line shown in the satellite data, the two data sources would actually appear to be quite consistent except that the ground-based data is generally higher than the satellite data. This difference may also be due to biased ground-based data. But if this substitution is made, the same major features would appear in both cases.

I believe it is incumbent on AGW supporters to show why the monthly satellite data without smoothing should not be used since it avoids using the suspect ground-based data and provides a more accurate picture of what actually happened. It is they, after all, that are asking the world to spend astronomical amounts on the basis of their hypothesis. If this is done, their “hockey stick” disappears and along with it the familiar AGW arguments for their hypothesis. This is not proof of biased 1978-96 ground data but appears to be the most reasonable explanation of the remaining differences between the two data sources.

The satellite data may have its own problems, of course, but there is reason to believe that it may be far more reliable than the ground-based data. There are also two independent data services which have delivered very similar data. A much more detailed analysis of what the satellite data can tell us can be downloaded from here, which is also the immediate source of the charts above.
 
Looks like in your story they're talking about controlling it through price. Which, of course, is how markets work.
What will they think of next? The mind boggles.

Stealth taxes are the way forward now. The middle class is being eroded, while the rich get richer. Financial bailouts were the biggest heist in history.
 
So much is said about the data used to prove the current AGW and of course any question about the data that doesn't fit the mantra will immediately be dismissed with the usual arrogance and high minded attitude of those who think they are indisputedly correct and above suspicion. So for the more "open-minded" that montmorencyt2w so aptly phrased here is an interesting comparison of data.

from http://www.carlineconomics.com/archives/303

You are mistaking "open minded" for "gullible". Furthermore phrases like "above suspicion" are indicative of the conspiratorial mind set that is part and parcel of the denialist world view. Anything that adds fuel to the "conspiracy" is automatically held to be at least credible and more usually the absolute truth without any critical assessment whatsoever.

Lets start with this Carlin chap. He maintains that climate science is bunk and there is no warming - otherwise why would he publish this web page? However he seems to think that geo-engineering is a great idea to tackle the problem of climate change: http://carlineconomics.googlepages.com/whyadifferent - in fact he thinks its such a great idea that he's devoted 60 odd pages into telling us why. All this is, quite frankly nuts - why would anybody think it's a good idea to dump shed loads or iron into the ocean or sulphur particulates into the atmosphere to solve a problem that does not exist? The answer to this conundrum is as usual, that the motivation is to confuse, create doubt and delay action rather than any genuine desire to get to the truth.

Moving on to the article itself, Carlin provide a link to what could only be called a parody of a scientific paper that he gets this stuff from. It seems that the author Arrak tried to get it published in Science, Nature and PNAS and had no luck at all. He seems to regard this as some badge of honor. In his own words "I offered the paper both to Science and to Nature but got turned down quickly, not even a chance for peer review". In other words it is so bad as to not be worthy of wasting a review on.

It seems that his approach to PNAS was a little different:

"I also tried submitting it to PNAS (Proceedings National Academy of Sciences). They published two papers this year that were outrageously biased and totally without scientific merit (2A) and I decided to submit mine as an antidote. But their web submission site required filling nine pages of computer forms with many restrictions on format and length, plus exorbitant page charges. I wasn’t going to do any of this and simply told them to download it from ICECAP if they want it. But don’t expect to get page charges – you pay them to me I told them."

All this is from the Appendix he has attached to the "paper". You couldn't make this stuff up. He sounds unhinged.

The "paper" itself is a joke and not worth discussing. If you want some reasonable information on the satellite temperature record try:

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/msu/

and

http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/finalreport/sap1-1-final-execsum.pdf
 
Last edited:
Stealth taxes are the way forward now. The middle class is being eroded, while the rich get richer. Financial bailouts were the biggest heist in history.

I would agree with all of this, but somehow I think we approach it from two different POVs.
Somewhere around here I read someone post something earlier today about Obama's tax on the banks, with the comment "eewww", or something equally analytical.
So, from what I can figure out, both the bailout and the tax to recover the money spent on the bailout are bad. Like this Carlin guy who thinks there is no warming and then writes forever on how to fix the problem he doesn't think exists.
Which is a little odd...
Also, a toll isn't a stealth tax. It's a direct service fee on the folks using the service provided. Nothing could be less stealthy, or more fair. It also has the salutary effect of insuring that the road in question is only used by those who truly need it.
This is a bigger issue in NYC with its Hudson bridges and tunnels than it is with any other city in the USA, by the way. NYC has no freight train links, and has to receive all its goods by truck. Allowing the Lincoln Tunnel, and the other Hudson River crossings, to get jammed up by wealthy suburbanites able to both pay the toll and pay the large fees to park in Manhattan is an extraordinary waste of an extremely valuable resource, one that could only happen because a government agency rather than a profit-seeking private company owns it. If they doubled or tripled the tolls during the morning rush hour for private cars, it would improve traffic flow immensely, and allow those trucks to get through.
Of course, the improved traffic flow would also cut down nicely on emissions, getting back to the subject at hand.
 
Moving on to the article itself, Carlin provide a link to what could only be called a parody of a scientific paper that he gets this stuff from. It seems that the author Arrak tried to get it published in Science, Nature and PNAS and had no luck at all. He seems to regard this as some badge of honor. In his own words "I offered the paper both to Science and to Nature but got turned down quickly, not even a chance for peer review". In other words it is so bad as to not be worthy of wasting a review on.

It seems that his approach to PNAS was a little different:

"I also tried submitting it to PNAS (Proceedings National Academy of Sciences). They published two papers this year that were outrageously biased and totally without scientific merit (2A) and I decided to submit mine as an antidote. But their web submission site required filling nine pages of computer forms with many restrictions on format and length, plus exorbitant page charges. I wasn’t going to do any of this and simply told them to download it from ICECAP if they want it. But don’t expect to get page charges – you pay them to me I told them."

All this is from the Appendix he has attached to the "paper". You couldn't make this stuff up. He sounds unhinged.

The "paper" itself is a joke and not worth discussing. If you want some reasonable information on the satellite temperature record try:

http://tamino.wordpress.com/2007/12/31/msu/

and

http://www.climatescience.gov/Library/sap/sap1-1/finalreport/sap1-1-final-execsum.pdf

One minute the peer review process is beyond reproach and you asking for peer-reviewed papers to be quoted. One gets quoted and you immediately discredit it.
I have had exactly the same thing happen to me (i.e. submitted a paper and got a letter back saying they will not even send it for peer reviewing). Result: a few weeks later, one of the editors of that journal submitted a similar paper in that journal and they were just holding it back so he could be the 'first' to publish it. If they give that reply, there is no proof the paper was ever submitted in the first place, so it makes it easier for people to get patents etc. However in this case, our patent was upheld even though our paper was published later.
This is exactly how peer reviewing works in my experience.
As for PNAS we had the same issue. they invited us to submit a paper to a Symposium in Print. We submitted, paid exorbitant fees to do so and they then rejected the paper despite the invitation being very specific about what they wanted us to report on.

Take the infamous 'hockey stick' graph. Mann published this in Nature. The rebuttal paper was rejected by Nature and ended up in a Climtaology journal or some such. This is the vested interest in the peer-review process at work I'm afraid. The paper is not a joke because it does not appear in Nature, Science or PNAS - but it is easier to discredit.
 
Last edited:
One minute the peer review process is beyond reproach and you asking for peer-reviewed papers to be quoted. One gets quoted and you immediately discredit it.

1. The paper was rejected. It hasn't been published in any journal. Nor is it ever likely to be. It wasn't peer reviewed. Period.

2. Reading it, I have no problem whatsoever understanding why it was rejected. It is just terrible. Junk.

3. The author sounds like he has a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock.

You cannot with a straight face claim it is serious science.
 
1. The paper was rejected. It hasn't been published in any journal. Nor is it ever likely to be. It wasn't peer reviewed. Period.

2. Reading it, I have no problem whatsoever understanding why it was rejected. It is just terrible. Junk.

3. The author sounds like he has a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock.

You cannot with a straight face claim it is serious science.

Well that would be because a: I did not read it and b: I assumed it was published somewhere. The point is that the fact that it was rejected without even submitting to peer review does not automatically mean it is junk.
 
Further accusations of data manipulation. For those who claim it's just CRU (nothing to see here anyway, just a conspiracy theory) this refers to GISS.

Climate researchers have discovered that NASA researchers improperly manipulated data in order to claim 2005 as "THE WARMEST YEAR ON RECORD." KUSI-TV meteorologist, Weather Channel founder, and iconic weatherman John Coleman will present these findings in a one-hour special airing on KUSI-TV on Jan.14 at 9 p.m. A related report will be made available on the Internet at 6 p.m. EST on January 14th at www.kusi.com.

In a new report, computer expert E. Michael Smith and Certified Consulting Meteorologist Joseph D'Aleo discovered extensive manipulation of the temperature data by the U.S. Government's two primary climate centers: the National Climate Data Center (NCDC) in Ashville, North Carolina and the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) at Columbia University in New York City. Smith and D'Aleo accuse these centers of manipulating temperature data to give the appearance of warmer temperatures than actually occurred by trimming the number and location of weather observation stations. The report is available online here

The report reveals that there were no actual temperatures left in the computer database when NASA/NCDC proclaimed 2005 as "THE WARMEST YEAR ON RECORD." The NCDC deleted actual temperatures at thousands of locations throughout the world as it changed to a system of global grid points, each of which is determined by averaging the temperatures of two or more adjacent weather observation stations. So the NCDC grid map contains only averaged, not real temperatures, giving rise to significant doubt that the result is a valid representation of Earth temperatures.

The number of actual weather observation points used as a starting point for world average temperatures was reduced from about 6,000 in the 1970s to about 1,000 now. "That leaves much of the world unaccounted for," says D'Aleo.

The NCDC data are regularly used by the National Weather Service to declare a given month or year as setting a record for warmth. Such pronouncements are typically made in support of the global warming alarmism agenda. Researchers who support the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) also regularly use the NASA/NCDC data, including researchers associated with the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia that is now at the center of the "Climategate" controversy.

This problem is only the tip of the iceberg with NCDC data. "For one thing, it is clear that comparing data from previous years, when the final figure was produced by averaging a large number of temperatures, with those of later years, produced from a small temperature base and the grid method, is like comparing apples and oranges," says Smith. "When the differences between the warmest year in history and the tenth warmest year is less than three quarters of a degree, it becomes silly to rely on such comparisons," added D'Aleo who asserts that the data manipulation is "scientific travesty" that was committed by activist scientists to advance the global warming agenda.

Smith and D'Aleo are both interviewed as part of a report on this study on the television special, "Global Warming: The Other Side" seen at 9 PM on January 14th on KUSI-TV, channel 9/51, San Diego, California. That program can now be viewed via computer at the website here. The detailed report is available here.


Link to the original:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=30000

And the preliminary report:

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/NOAAroleinclimategate.pdf

There I go again, sowing "confusion". We'd be far better off if everyone just accepted one point of view.
 
Further accusations of data manipulation. For those who claim it's just CRU (nothing to see here anyway, just a conspiracy theory) this refers to GISS.

Climate researchers have discovered that NASA researchers improperly manipulated data in order to claim 2005 as "THE WARMEST YEAR ON RECORD." KUSI-TV meteorologist, Weather Channel founder, and iconic weatherman John Coleman will present these findings in a one-hour special airing on KUSI-TV on Jan.14 at 9 p.m. A related report will be made available on the Internet at 6 p.m. EST on January 14th at www.kusi.com.

In a new report, computer expert E. Michael Smith and Certified Consulting Meteorologist Joseph D'Aleo discovered extensive manipulation of the temperature data by the U.S. Government's two primary climate centers: the National Climate Data Center (NCDC) in Ashville, North Carolina and the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) at Columbia University in New York City. Smith and D'Aleo accuse these centers of manipulating temperature data to give the appearance of warmer temperatures than actually occurred by trimming the number and location of weather observation stations. The report is available online here

The report reveals that there were no actual temperatures left in the computer database when NASA/NCDC proclaimed 2005 as "THE WARMEST YEAR ON RECORD." The NCDC deleted actual temperatures at thousands of locations throughout the world as it changed to a system of global grid points, each of which is determined by averaging the temperatures of two or more adjacent weather observation stations. So the NCDC grid map contains only averaged, not real temperatures, giving rise to significant doubt that the result is a valid representation of Earth temperatures.

The number of actual weather observation points used as a starting point for world average temperatures was reduced from about 6,000 in the 1970s to about 1,000 now. "That leaves much of the world unaccounted for," says D'Aleo.

The NCDC data are regularly used by the National Weather Service to declare a given month or year as setting a record for warmth. Such pronouncements are typically made in support of the global warming alarmism agenda. Researchers who support the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) also regularly use the NASA/NCDC data, including researchers associated with the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia that is now at the center of the "Climategate" controversy.

This problem is only the tip of the iceberg with NCDC data. "For one thing, it is clear that comparing data from previous years, when the final figure was produced by averaging a large number of temperatures, with those of later years, produced from a small temperature base and the grid method, is like comparing apples and oranges," says Smith. "When the differences between the warmest year in history and the tenth warmest year is less than three quarters of a degree, it becomes silly to rely on such comparisons," added D'Aleo who asserts that the data manipulation is "scientific travesty" that was committed by activist scientists to advance the global warming agenda.

Smith and D'Aleo are both interviewed as part of a report on this study on the television special, "Global Warming: The Other Side" seen at 9 PM on January 14th on KUSI-TV, channel 9/51, San Diego, California. That program can now be viewed via computer at the website here. The detailed report is available here.


Link to the original:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=30000

And the preliminary report:

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/NOAAroleinclimategate.pdf

There I go again, sowing "confusion". We'd be far better off if everyone just accepted one point of view.

Citing journalistic pieces that go on about "alarmism" is, to put it mildly, not really credible.
 

More gibberish. Lets get one thing straight for a start. The predicted global temperature rise this century in a business as usual scenario is in the region of 4 - 5C. Watts keeps on banging on about 1.5C. "What's up with that?"

In fact a rise of just 1.5C would be seen as a terrific result and one very unlikely to be achieved without massive reductions in CO2 emissions,

A rise of 4-5C will without doubt have very serious consequences that Watts would dearly like to conveniently ignore.

Worse still there is no guarantee about the 4-5C estimate. It may be less and it may be more for all sorts of reasons. In the higher scenario, the outcome is likely to be very nasty indeed. It is utterly irrational to take on such a level of risk.
 
2009 - 2nd hottest year on record, sun is coolest in a century

Temp_vs_TSI_2009.gif


http://www.skepticalscience.com/2009-2nd-hottest-year-on-record-sun-coolest-in-a-century.html
 
Jan 16, 2009 snow and ice cover, Northern Hemisphere:

fay4hw.jpg


Jan 16, 2010 snow and ice cover, Northern Hemisphere:

2nssvte.jpg


To the extent there's any difference at all, this year's ice cover - a more reliable measure of global temperatures - is smaller.
Whether or not London got hit by a snowstorm isn't a reliable indicator of anything, just to debunk this so-called "cooling" we've had this winter.
We've had a bit of a cold spell, and here in the Northeast USA, that's abating quite nicely. It was hardly anything unusual; we've had stretches, here in metro NYC, of two weeks running where the temps didn't get above freezing. In this one, temps regularly broke freezing once every few days. At no time did we get near the zero mark in Fahrenheit terms, either.
Certainly not weather worthy of a solar minimum so extreme it hasn't happened in a century: 2008 had 266 days without a sunspot, 2009, 260 days. You have to go back to 1913 to find a year with less sunspots.
 
Citing journalistic pieces that go on about "alarmism" is, to put it mildly, not really credible.

:LOL:

Journalistic pieces? That's where things are often reported :LOL:.

No thoughts on the actual content? Like the dramatic reduction in the number of stations that make it into NASA's temperature record.

Talk about denial.
 
:LOL:

Journalistic pieces? That's where things are often reported :LOL:.

No thoughts on the actual content? Like the dramatic reduction in the number of stations that make it into NASA's temperature record.

Talk about denial.

Whatever happened the old piece of wisdom - "You can't believe everything you read in the newspapers"? With science reporting this is even more true. When it comes to discussion of the methodology of data collection and analysis, a TV presentation by an " iconic weatherman" who clearly has his own agenda is really worth zip. And supported by a "computer expert" - give me a break. It is not possible to have "thoughts on the actual content", because there is no content - just wild accusations thrown about.

If there are gross distortions of the temperature record, then it should be not a lot of bother to write and get published a genuine scientific paper showing how the record is wrong. Where is it?

By far the most likely explanation for GISS changing their methodology is to improve the accuracy of the record. One of the interesting characteristics of the GISS record is that as from time to time corrections are made to rectify errors, those corrections have made very little difference to the record. Which does lend confidence in GISS.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/updates/

Science moves forward but the conspiracy theorists just find that to be more fuel for their loopy ideas.
 
:LOL:

Journalistic pieces? That's where things are often reported :LOL:.

No thoughts on the actual content? Like the dramatic reduction in the number of stations that make it into NASA's temperature record.

Talk about denial.

You have a computer guy and a meteorologist - not a climatologist, a meteorologist - questioning the setup of the way the station data is read. If you read it rather than skim it, they changed the way they put the stations together, and these guys are accusing them of manipulating the data based on averaging the stations within a grid.
Since I use options data that I average first before I run it through another layer of analysis to play the market, I for the life of me can't figure out what these guys are on about. Sometimes, for whatever reason, it's necessary.
I don't mind being skeptical about stuff, but I would rather see the questioning coming from someone who's in the actual field being questioned.
Would you take a geologist's word about physics? Or, more to the point, if you wanted to know whether to invest in a utility company, would you ask a successful daytrader or a successful long-term investor? They're both in the market, but one looks at it from an extreme short-term POV, the other from the other end of the time spectrum. What's valid in one doesn't go in the other. Obviously, fundamental analysis is useless to a daytrader, and long-term investors don't usually do candlestick analysis.
Same thing with a meteorologist and a climatologist. CO2 levels are irrelevant to a meteorologist. What some low-pressure system is doing at the 40/70 benchmark on the Delmarva peninsula of the east coast of the US is irrelevant to a climatologist.
 
Top