The end of the EU

[jungles]

how to reduce confidence and eco. growth in an already fragile system,
in just one simple and off-hand remark

Earlier, markets in Europe and the US moved downwards when Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the Dutch Finance Minister who as head of the Eurogroup played a key role in the Cyprus negotiations, said the deal represented a new template for resolving future eurozone banking problems.

 

[neil]

how to reduce confidence and eco. growth in an already fragile system,
in just one simple and off-hand remark

Frightening

 

[palo cortado]

I was thinking it is more a case of honesty integrity and dignity.

Let everyone else pay tax for social services - I'm special. Lying, cheating and earning money not deserved, if you can get away with it - is the new culture. n:

Protestant work ethic plays Catholic/Latin laissez faire

 

[Splitlink]

Cyprus should not have been allowed to become the big issue that it has. For a start, it should not have been allowed into the Eurozone, being an offshore tax haven,

I live in Europe and defend it where I can but I do seriously believe that Brussels has done serious damage to its currency and financial credibility.

I can not imagine anyone with large sums of money being anything but very uneasy with keeping it in Europe.. London will benefit from this, I'm sure, France, in particular, with the government it has, has already seen rich people going abroad.

Very shortsighted and not very intelligent people in charge of our financial affairs in Brussels.

 

[Pat494]

Cyprus should not have been allowed to become the big issue that it has. For a start, it should not have been allowed into the Eurozone, being an offshore tax haven,

I live in Europe and defend it where I can but I do seriously believe that Brussels has done serious damage to its currency and financial credibility.

I can not imagine anyone with large sums of money being anything but very uneasy with keeping it in Europe.. London will benefit from this, I'm sure, France, in particular, with the government it has, has already seen rich people going abroad.

Very shortsighted and not very intelligent people in charge of our financial affairs in Brussels.

Like a good and reliable watch these political systems need a good architecture. Without, they run into difficulties. The EU has over expanded itself on the basis more is better. It very definately is not, as every collapsed Empire could tell you. One needs " THE OPTIMUM SIZE " with a good architecture.
Then there is the problem of enforcing the rules. Yes very tricky. Good rules are easier to enforce of course.
I would like to see a viable Europe financially. But keeping alive the different cultures. Without those it is just a very dull colour of grey.

When it was just Germany and France they could have agreements based on unaminity but with 27 countries surely the 100% rule should be changed. And so on.

25% unemployment in Spain ? They could use a bit of iniative and with their climate, empty housing and high unemployment they could become the retirement country for the old. That would solve those problems and do something worthwhile. Well Split ?

 

[Splitlink]

Like a good and reliable watch these political systems need a good architecture. Without, they run into difficulties. The EU has over expanded itself on the basis more is better. It very definately is not, as every collapsed Empire could tell you. One needs " THE OPTIMUM SIZE " with a good architecture.
Then there is the problem of enforcing the rules. Yes very tricky. Good rules are easier to enforce of course.
I would like to see a viable Europe financially. But keeping alive the different cultures. Without those it is just a very dull colour of grey.

When it was just Germany and France they could have agreements based on unaminity but with 27 countries surely the 100% rule should be changed. And so on.

25% unemployment in Spain ? They could use a bit of iniative and with their climate, empty housing and high unemployment they could become the retirement country for the old. That would solve those problems and do something worthwhile. Well Split ?

There you go, Pat. I would not have you in charge, here, for a start!

 

[0007]

Frightening

Not as frightening as the prospect of Ed Balls getting similar ideas to the guy at #702!

 

[Pat494]

There you go, Pat. I would not have you in charge, here, for a start!

No point in me learning Spanish then

 

[robster970]

Very shortsighted and not very intelligent people in charge of our financial affairs in Brussels.

If you needed minor surgery would you trust (a) a surgeon to do this or (b) an elected member of the public?

If you need to design and build a bridge would you trust (a) a civil engineer to do this or (b) an elected member of the public?

If you need to financially restructure a countries banking system would you trust (a) bankers to do this or (b) an elected member of the public?

POLITICIANS, KNOW YOUR LIMITS!

 

[palo cortado]

As the bankers got us here, can we trust them?

 

[robster970]

As the bankers got us here, can we trust them?

Politicians told everybody they could join in wealth creation either through property purchase or economic prosperity. People bought the dream and the politicians got voted into power. Banks created products to try and distribute/package credit risk up. People made hay whilst the sun shined. Nobody complained then. Now that the bubble has burst, it is easier for people and politicians to blame the banking sector instead of taking responsibility for their own actions in creating and fueling the credit fest that got us here.

Would I trust a banker more than a politician or some ordinary person in the street in understanding financial risk? Of course I would.

Bankers are just another scapegoat in the folly that is humanity's incapability to look after itself or organise itself coherently.

 

[Pat494]

Politicians told everybody they could join in wealth creation either through property purchase or economic prosperity. People bought the dream and the politicians got voted into power. Banks created products to try and distribute/package credit risk up. People made hay whilst the sun shined. Nobody complained then. Now that the bubble has burst, it is easier for people and politicians to blame the banking sector instead of taking responsibility for their own actions in creating and fueling the credit fest that got us here.

Would I trust a banker more than a politician or some ordinary person in the street in understanding financial risk? Of course I would.

Bankers are just another scapegoat in the folly that is humanity's incapability to look after itself or organise itself coherently.

Notice how no bankers or politicicians are being prosecuted even for incompetence ?
All those billions didn't just disappear. A lot of it went into people's accounts.
It's a stich up in anybody's language.

 

[counter_violent]

Notice how no bankers or politicicians are being prosecuted even for incompetence ?
All those billions didn't just disappear. A lot of it went into people's accounts.
It's a stich up in anybody's language.

Shall we get organised then.

How about starting with a well written e-petition...something along the lines of.....

We the people demand that laws are passed which will require any govt of the day to run a balanced budget year on year. Furthermore, govt borrowing and spending be outlawed as it is unreasonable to burden future generations with debt they inherited from profligate govt spenders of other peoples money.

 

[neil]

Shall we get organised then.

How about starting with a well written e-petition...something along the lines of.....

We the people demand that laws are passed which will require any govt of the day to run a balanced budget year on year. Furthermore, govt borrowing and spending be outlawed as it is unreasonable to burden future generations with debt they inherited from profligate govt spenders of other peoples money.

Why not cancel all debt between countries and start again?
(Well - one can only dream.)

 

[Pat494]

Shall we get organised then.

How about starting with a well written e-petition...something along the lines of.....

We the people demand that laws are passed which will require any govt of the day to run a balanced budget year on year. Furthermore, govt borrowing and spending be outlawed as it is unreasonable to burden future generations with debt they inherited from profligate govt spenders of other peoples money.

A lot of countries would come to their senses the shock would be so great if they had to balance their budgets ! The US would stop interfering in other people's affairs and.............???

Good thinking

 

[Splitlink]

A lot of countries would come to their senses the shock would be so great if they had to balance their budgets ! The US would stop interfering in other people's affairs and.............???

Good thinking

Would not work unless we had a World Government. The Yanks are the worst and the people vote them in because they have, up to now, at any rate, run huge deficits which mean that they are living off everyone else's backs.

Who is going to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

It is a nice idea, though. Keep dreaming about it, you might find a way through.

Actually, the socialists are the worst offenders and they are supposed to be on the side of the people.

 

[libertas]

Shall we get organised then.

How about starting with a well written e-petition...something along the lines of.....

We the people demand that laws are passed which will require any govt of the day to run a balanced budget year on year. Furthermore, govt borrowing and spending be outlawed as it is unreasonable to burden future generations with debt they inherited from profligate govt spenders of other peoples money.

I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments but first we need to restrain government itself. The US Constitution was a set of rules set up to restrain government but it has steadily been eroded and destroyed by power hungry politicians. The one big mistake the original writers made was in not introducing term limits. This led to the creation of career politicians whose only interest was maintaining power and never 'serving the people'.

The imposition of term limits has to be the number one priority to stop these career politicians dead in their tracks. Any rules or obligations that are forced on them without this, will slowly be eroded or circumvented again.

 

[Splitlink]

Why not cancel all debt between countries and start again?
(Well - one can only dream.)

In a much smaller way, that is what the Cyprus government wants to do with peoples' bank accounts. Those that have any money, at all, do not want to start again.

 

[Pat494]

Would not work unless we had a World Government. The Yanks are the worst and the people vote them in because they have, up to now, at any rate, run huge deficits which mean that they are living off everyone else's backs.

Who is going to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

It is a nice idea, though. Keep dreaming about it, you might find a way through.

Actually, the socialists are the worst offenders and they are supposed to be on the side of the people.

The greedy plgs are living off their children's and grandchildren's etc. inheritances. Sorry kids the idiots spent your lot - tough luck.

 

[new_trader]

Why not cancel all debt between countries and start again?
(Well - one can only dream.)

The simple answer to that is because there is always the other side of the transaction, ie The creditors. As the Cypriot savers are discovering the hard way, they are the creditors of the banks which are failing. Unfortunately, few people who have their savings in the bank think of themselves as creditors of the bank, but that is exactly what they are.