The Collective2 web site and Trading Systems Being offered

Bazp

Newbie
3 0
Hi All,

I have just recently registered with this site. Wish that i did that 12 months ago!!!!!!

The Collective2 web site which lists the results of various vendors trading systems seems to be what I am looking for. I am interested in doing End of Day trading only, and wondered if anybody has had any prior or current experience with the EOD trading system being offered by investing4all.com. I notice that there have not been any fairly recent EOD future trades for this vendor on the collective2 site. I have emailed investing4all directly asking about part performance etc, and await their response.

Many thanks,
Baz
 

Rognvald

Established member
916 15
I suspect that the Collective 2 site charges to display vendors' system results over time. If it doesn't look good a vendor is not going to keep paying the site to show their system up for the rubbish it may well be.

The only system current on the site as of a few days ago seemed to have an unbelievably good performance.

Caveat emptor and see the software guide on black boxes.

http://www.trade2win.co.uk/boards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8886

Does investing4all .com comply with the safeguards outlined there?
 

Bazp

Newbie
3 0
Thanks Rognvald. I still have not heard back from investing4all.com, so I expect like the rest whom I am emailed and asked specific information, their tounges have left them!

Just some background on myelf! I am very new to EOD trading, under 12 months. Spent a good 6 months looking, testing, and testing various theroies, with extremely small amounts of money using SB company. So irratic. Just so many organisations saying what I want to hear. Yes we can make you money.

But I have learnt allot studying some TA, and JP Candles, without losing much money.

I think that the best thing for me is to find a respected EOD trading course, hence I am on this site, looking for the right course for me, with reality checks built in!

I have to say that so far, I have been very impressed with Trade2win, in how open and responsive you seem to be.

Oh by the way. I see Goldline has been mentioned a few times on this site. My brother has personal experience with them and using their software. He has lost thousands!! All I can say is stay way way way clear of them. A total total rip off.

Thanks one and all.
Baz
 

matthewklein

Newbie
7 0
Does Collective2 charge system vendors money?

Hi,

I am Matthew Klein, the programmer behind (and founder of) the Collective2 Web site. I just want to clarify a few things that were mentioned in this thread about Collective2. First, to answer Rognvald: no, we do not charge system vendors to "appear" on our site.

Instead, we have a very unique business model for making money on Collective2: we lose money on every transaction, but we make it up on volume!

Just kidding. Actually, we're sort of like Ebay, in that we take a small percentage of any "subscriptions" that get processed through the site. So if you find a trading system you like, and then you subscribe to it, and then you pay the vendor money, we take a small piece of that transaction. I assure you that this does not pay the bills for hosting and running the site! (I really operate Collective2 as a labor of love. I pay the bills through my own personal trading.)

Finally, I want to address one other issue. This is the fact that Collective2 often shows systems that demonstrate performance that is "too good to be true."

If you search through the Collective2 database looking for trading systems, you will always find some trading systems that have performance that seems too excellent.

This is a common problem - and one that affects the entire trading world - not just Collective2. If you assume that all trading system performance is essentially random - and that some will be good and some will be bad - then you will always be able to find the "good" systems... after the fact. The trick, of course, is to find the good systems before they post excellent performance!

Many people have written about this phenomenon. (A great book, if it hasn't been mentioned on this forum already, is Taleb's "Fooled by Randomness" - which may very well change your world view about trading.) As I said, this problem exists also in other trading venues, like the world of mutual funds, where a mutual fund vendor can always offer a fund that has had excellent performance in the past. All the vendor needs to do is make sure he keeps a stable of a dozen funds at all times, and then he can "fold" bad performers into excellent performers, and market only the good ones. Caveat emptor, indeed.

Anyway, I mention this not because I encourage us all to throw up our hands in disgust and walk away from the world of trading systems, but rather, to encourage people to make educated decsisions about the systems they use or subscribe to. The best thing you can do is have realistic expectations about what trading systems can achieve. The reality is that it is simply not possible to earn, say, more than 20% per year without large drawdowns and risk.

My goal at Collective2 is to provide - at a minimum - an independent, third-party, verification service for trading system performance. People can use the Web site to evaluate systems that they may be interested in. This is better than simply taking the vendor's word for it.

Matthew
 

Carter18

Newbie
3 0
Does anyone know which system in Collective, that is really popular, -how many subscribers that it has? or approximately?
 

Deucalion

Junior member
12 0
Carter......99% of systems on C2 are garbage, not a fault of C2 though. They are just not good systems....but there are the remaining 1% that are worth investigating.

As a matter of fact, I am subscribed to one of them and tracking two more....do your diligence....the world of mechanical systems is not made for the general public with measly 25K - 100K accounts......but you have to research them.

Most "good" systems will be the ones that produce consistent results over time, these are the "old and steady" ones in C2. These are also the ones with, in all likely hood the least attractive results - like 30-50% a year.....

A good discretionary trader can do that in 2-4months.....

But again C2 is a just a hosting site, many of the systems posted there are autotraded by big brokerage houses.....OEC / Dorman / IB etc etc.....Be very sceptical and don't even look at anything that does not have at least a 3 or 4year history of consistent results (that automatically filters out nearly 99% of systems vendored.

Or, for newer systems look for independent verification other than results posted. Following this methodology I was left with 3-4systems out of 1000's.

And I picked one, and even then I expect 35% an year from it. That's it.

But most certainly, C2 is a great medium IMO although they would serve their cause much better if they hooked up with some independent organization to improve and solidify their credibility, right now it's pretty much buyer beware.......hosting garbage systems on C2 can do nothing but harm their credibility in the long run.....

As a matter of fact, the system I am subscribed to was actually independently rated externally and only later I found it was hosted on C2 as well.

Best of luck.
 

Tango_25

Newbie
6 0
Hi Matthew - You said "we do not charge system vendors to "appear" on our site." & "then you pay the vendor money, we take a small piece of that transaction."

Can you simply outline your fee structure to the forum members for system vendors. ie Collective2 charges system vendors $100/month for maintaining their system and you collect 30% of the subscription fee. Whatever those charges are for Collective2, can you just clarify it.

Tango_25, michael
 

Adamus

Experienced member
1,898 97
It's been 6 years since he posted that message so I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a reply!

I assume collective2 is still running - probably a nice little earner for the website owner - and fine for people who are happy trading black box systems. You can't actually get your hands on the system code though, can you?
 

Tango_25

Newbie
6 0
I have a system that my trading partner and I created using Chaos Hunter in Easy Language. It's not a blackbox but it does use a hybrid NN. It's posted under "Profitable Neural Network Strategy". There's a small issue from within Multicharts that we need to get sorted this week with them and then we'll repost it.

I went onto Collective2 thinking that one could post a strategy but while completing the process it appears that they want to charge for maintaining it in addition to a percentage of the leasing rate.

I just wanted Matt to clarify the situation for us - and yes, I won't hold my breath.

Tango_25



It's been 6 years since he posted that message so I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a reply!

I assume collective2 is still running - probably a nice little earner for the website owner - and fine for people who are happy trading black box systems. You can't actually get your hands on the system code though, can you?
 

matthewklein

Newbie
7 0
Hi Matthew - You said "we do not charge system vendors to "appear" on our site." & "then you pay the vendor money, we take a small piece of that transaction."

Can you simply outline your fee structure to the forum members for system vendors. ie Collective2 charges system vendors $100/month for maintaining their system and you collect 30% of the subscription fee. Whatever those charges are for Collective2, can you just clarify it.

Tango_25, michael
Hi, Tango:

I don't want this post to look like an ad for Collective2.com, so I'll just answer your question about pricing as briefly as possible:

Yes, Collective2 charges a semi-annual listing fee to maintain your system on our site. It is $98 for a period of six months (not per month!). If you earn subscription fees, we will charge 30% of what your subscriber pays.

Once your system is on the site, your subscribers can automatically have it autotraded at any C2 compatible brokers.

Hope this answers the question -

- Matthew
Founder, Collective2
 

buddhi

Junior member
21 0
Hi, Tango:

I don't want this post to look like an ad for Collective2.com, so I'll just answer your question about pricing as briefly as possible:

Yes, Collective2 charges a semi-annual listing fee to maintain your system on our site. It is $98 for a period of six months (not per month!). If you earn subscription fees, we will charge 30% of what your subscriber pays.

Once your system is on the site, your subscribers can automatically have it autotraded at any C2 compatible brokers.

Hope this answers the question -

- Matthew
Founder, Collective2

YES Collective 2 charge vendors/signal providers to join their site. Then they charge them again (at least I got charged twice). They offer free software to transfer your mt4trades to their site - but it has no functionality so you have to buy the upgraded version, which does not work. Your trades are mostly ignored so any subscriber loses out and your efforts as a signal provider are ignored.

They have no support - occassionally you get a partial response to the wrong question. Their entire site and their software is inconsistent and buggy - their programmer (apparentluy just one outsourced guy) is amazingly bad. With no support and bad software, the Collective 2 site is useless for subscribers and signal providers.

This is not a serious or professional operation - the jokey site copy and is apparently written by high schoolers, not people you want to trust money to.

Their forum is a joke. There are just a few threads; one thread has thousands of responses and the others have just a few. The thread with thousands of responses is a general thread and one cannot find anything in it because it has zero organization.

Collective 2 has been in business taking people's money for seven or so years - amazingly their programming and site has only become worse - in seven years they have not learned anything or improved at all. This is a record for websites. How is it even possible to be in business for seven years and just get worse??

Apparently the founder "Matthew" has the dotcom business model in mind (and he has done this before). Spool up the top-line revenue and put zero effort into content or value or improvement (which is expense). Then sell out to someone.

If anyone buys this site, they will find a huge mess of patches on top of patches,which is why nothing works and why there is no logic or consistancy to figure anything out. It has become unfixable because the founder and his programmer (they only have a couple of people working for them to keep costs down) hoped to sell out before it got to the messed-up stage it is currently at, but now they cling to their business model hoping for a clueless buyer and Collective 2 gets worse every month as more patches are applied.
 

matthewklein

Newbie
7 0
Very courageous to post a hatchet job about me and my company anonymously, under a pseudonym!

Buddhi has posted similar messages in other threads and other web sites. He must "have it in" for Collective2. My guess (and it's just a guess; I have no evidence, since buddhi hides behind a fake name and I have no idea who he is) is that "buddhi" tried to sell a system on Collective2, and - due to the nature of how Collective2 works - (you can't just remove your horrible trading track record and claim it was a "mistake"; Collective2 insists that your old, failed systems remain visible; this is what makes the site valuable for people evaluating trading systems) - he was disappointed that his system didn't work out, and that he couldn't remove his failed track record from the site.

So, here's my response. Collective2 and its quality speak for itself. I am proud of it. The C2 Platform processes over a half-billion dollars in nominal real-brokerage-account transactions per week (not demos or sim accounts) and has 50,000 registered customers. We've been business for eight years. One explanation of our success is that we have somehow managed to pull the wool over a lot of people's eyes and fooled everyone into using our site, despite its inadequacy. Another possible explanation is that the site is damn good, and provides great value to many people -- that is, to people seeking to use automated trading systems, and to people seeking to sell their automated trading systems. Which explanation is more likely? I'll let the reader decide.

Buddhi's complaints are, variously, that the site is bad, the forum threads too long, that my sense of humor is poor, and that we don't employ enough people (an example of several of these things combined -- bad sense of humor plus a list of our employees -- can be found here: http://www.collective2.com/people ).

No doubt there are other issues buddhi has in mind, and I have a feeling he'll wax on about them at great length in future posts.

But -- you know what? -- I don't cower behind a fake name and throw stones at others' work. On the contrary: I put my own work forward to the public, and I do so proudly, because Collective2 (C2 to its fans) is awesome, and there ain't anything else like it (though other sites try to copy it).

Judge for yourself. You know where to find the site. See what you think.

- Matthew Klein
Founder
Collective2
www.collective2.com





YES Collective 2 charge vendors/signal providers to join their site. Then they charge them again (at least I got charged twice). They offer free software to transfer your mt4trades to their site - but it has no functionality so you have to buy the upgraded version, which does not work. Your trades are mostly ignored so any subscriber loses out and your efforts as a signal provider are ignored.

They have no support - occassionally you get a partial response to the wrong question. Their entire site and their software is inconsistent and buggy - their programmer (apparentluy just one outsourced guy) is amazingly bad. With no support and bad software, the Collective 2 site is useless for subscribers and signal providers.

This is not a serious or professional operation - the jokey site copy and is apparently written by high schoolers, not people you want to trust money to.

Their forum is a joke. There are just a few threads; one thread has thousands of responses and the others have just a few. The thread with thousands of responses is a general thread and one cannot find anything in it because it has zero organization.

Collective 2 has been in business taking people's money for seven or so years - amazingly their programming and site has only become worse - in seven years they have not learned anything or improved at all. This is a record for websites. How is it even possible to be in business for seven years and just get worse??

Apparently the founder "Matthew" has the dotcom business model in mind (and he has done this before). Spool up the top-line revenue and put zero effort into content or value or improvement (which is expense). Then sell out to someone.

If anyone buys this site, they will find a huge mess of patches on top of patches,which is why nothing works and why there is no logic or consistancy to figure anything out. It has become unfixable because the founder and his programmer (they only have a couple of people working for them to keep costs down) hoped to sell out before it got to the messed-up stage it is currently at, but now they cling to their business model hoping for a clueless buyer and Collective 2 gets worse every month as more patches are applied.
 

Chris-V

Newbie
2 0
My review on Collective2 - member since 2008

I just wanted to post an update on Collective2.com and share My Collective2 Review. I know this thread is old, but I think it needs updated with some fresh info.

I have been a member of Collective2 since 2008 and have followed it closely for many reason... autotrade systems, run my own systems, and to ride the wave of automated trading with Collective2 as this sector of the trading industry is still tiny and has not yet exploded. I do share and trade my system on their website and think you should read my review if you are thinking of doing the same.

Here is my Collective2 Review
 

Similar threads


AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

But it's thanks to our sponsors that access to Trade2Win remains free for all. By viewing our ads you help us pay our bills, so please support the site and disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock