The American Meltdown

Mayfly said:
Anatole Kaletsky is quite sound on this issue, but he hardly gives the antis both barrels; nevertheless you can safely conclude that their arguments are basically bollox and humbug! You can read more here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1061-1264544,00.html


Mayfly
Hi mayfly...hope things are well....

Cant access the link above for some reason...

Would you mind posting a transcript here or perhaps e mail me on me e mail..

When are southern boys setting up a meet...?

Saw Birmingham match...and after that I think I will stop going to these matches..

There is a few one days and match series in India which i am hoing to attend for full time, but er indoors has put a stop...for time being anyway...

Hope family is well

regards
 
Hiya Zambuck,

Yeah, the link to the Times could be better for some reason? I’ve copied the article and pasted it below, so that anyone passing through here can read it, etc. :)
I’ll give you a call at home so that we can catch up –about time?

Cheers

Mayfly

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The foxhunting ban revives those ugly social divisions that were thought to be waning

HOW will history remember Tony Blair? As the saviour of foxes and butcher of hounds and horses? As the patriotic warrior who sent soldiers to die under false pretences for a country which may soon not even exist? As the idealist who promised to put Britain at the heart of Europe but did not even try to join the euro? As the humanitarian who pledged to “sort out” Africa and then stood by while Sudanese militias massacred more people in a single summer than Saddam Hussein did in ten years? As the social reformer who wanted to modernise the National Health Service but was too weak to overrule his Chancellor? As the environmentalist who spouted hot air on global warming while quietly sabotaging the only plausible solutions: higher petrol taxes and nuclear power?

Maybe not. Perhaps we should be more charitable — as the voters probably will be next year. Although almost everybody in Britain now seems to loathe Mr Blair, there is a grudging respect for his performance as a politician which in my view comes down to one core achievement: Mr Blair was the man who ended Britain’s century-long class war. Not only did he reconcile the Labour Party and the trade union movement to a capitalist economy ruled by market competition and private ownership. More broadly, he persuaded the British people to start thinking of themselves as individuals, instead of feudal vassals, born into predestined social classes, with values imprinted by their economic positions and lives ruled by tribal loyalties and taboos.

The creation of a classless society in Britain would, on its own, have been enough to compensate for all Mr Blair’s deceptions, evasions and failures. This great social transformation also lies at the heart of the economic successes for which new Labour receives (and deserves) much praise. If Gordon Brown managed not to squander the golden legacy he inherited from the Tories, this was largely thanks to the change in social attitudes wrought by Mr Blair. In dealing with taxation, public spending, industrial relations, welfare, inflation control and a host of other economic questions where political views had previously been defined by tribal allegiance, class war was suddenly replaced by rational debate.

The question after yesterday’s pandemonium over hunting is whether this period of social harmony will turn out to have been just a temporary ceasefire in the class war. That such a sweeping question should be promoted by something as parochial and eccentric as a ban on hunting foxes may seem ridiculous to anyone unfamiliar with the tribal instincts still present in British grassroots politics. The foxhunting controversy now promises to bring class politics back in its nastiest, most visceral form.

Anyone who believes that the ban on foxhunting is motivated by humanitarian principles or the generally sentimental attitude to animals in Britain has totally failed to understand the political dynamics that have pushed this issue to the top of the Prime Minister’s agenda. This is not an issue of morality but of class hatred.

There is no moral difference between a huntsman who finds it exciting to chase a fox with dogs and a fisherman who finds it relaxing to torture a pike with hooks. In fact, opponents of hunting do not have a moral leg to stand on unless they campaign for a total ban on all other forms of unnecessary killing for pleasure, including the slaughter of animals for meat. The slaughter of farm animals is at least as “cruel” and “unnecessary” as the hunting of foxes. The cruelty is demonstrated by the many biological indicators of intense animal distress in transportation lorries and abattoirs. The lack of necessity, by the fact that human beings can survive perfectly well without eating meat. Indeed, a well-balanced vegetarian diet would probably improve the health of the population and would certainly be good for the environment, given the huge waste of energy and the large contribution to global warming made by the rearing of cows. In sum, the only reason why cows are terrified and then killed in abattoirs is to provide us with a sensual pleasure — and a rather unhealthy one at that. Indeed the only animal killing which is not essentially a human indulgence is medical research. Morally, vivisection is the only form of killing which can be fully justified.

Why, then, do opponents of hunting feel so passionately about saving foxes, but do not worry about the suffering of fish, cows and sheep? Why do many of the same activists attack women wearing mink or sable, but do not give a damn about leather shoes? The difference is not about morality but about class and tribe. Hunting, like fur, is identified with the rich and the toffs. Fishing, like leather and hamburgers, is an indulgence of the urban working class.

While it has not been in the interest of either side to acknowledge the class origins of the struggle over hunting, this nasty reality is going to emerge with a vengeance in the coming months. Viewed in isolation, the poll tax was also a small and eccentric issue. But it sparked a wave of protest which helped to bring down Margaret Thatcher because it seemed to condense in one symbol the injustice and arrogance of Thatcherism, which the country had started to hate.

Could hunting turn into a catalytic issue of the same kind? Probably not in the short term, since hunting has little to do with the features of the Blair Government, such as dishonesty and opportunism, which the public most dislikes.

Looking beyond the next election, however, Labour’s biggest problem is likely to be its relationship with what used to be called Britain’s “ruling class”. This is no longer the rural aristocracy, but the rapidly growing meritocracy of rich and privileged professionals. These are the people who will bear the brunt of higher taxes to support Labour’s social ambitions, whose children are openly targeted for educational discrimination, whose businesses and pensions are threatened by oppressive regulation, whose cultural pleasures are losing government support. These are the people who worry that Mr Brown will turn out to be a socialist class warrior if he ever replaces Mr Blair.

By supporting the anti-hunt activists and reneging on the earlier compromise for licensed hunting, Mr Blair is opening the Pandora’s box of class warfare. In doing so, he is risking all that he has achieved.
 
Hey just to let you all know. There is actually fox hunting in America! I hear they are very tasty on the grill. You see Zambuck. In America we eat what we kill!

By the way, I hear there is a group in England that wants to ban fishing next!! LOL.... If that is true, I will propose a new hunting season on communists and socialists. Of course, you would only get a permit to "bag" the commies or socialists who have demonstrated a proclivity to ruin civilisation.

HMMM.....Well maybe that was too broad. How about just those commies and socialists that the new committee (called the Fish and Fox committee --sponsored by the House of Lords of course--very catchy) approves//rules are a "danger to the children of Britain" (sounds nice and universal ---that is so all the women will go for it!! ;) ).

How do you think my Yankee ideas will go over? You could save all of Britain with the Fox and Fish committee!
 
TGM said:
Hey just to let you all know. There is actually fox hunting in America! I hear they are very tasty on the grill. You see Zambuck. In America we eat what we kill!

By the way, I hear there is a group in England that wants to ban fishing next!! LOL.... If that is true, I will propose a new hunting season on communists and socialists. Of course, you would only get a permit to "bag" the commies or socialists who have demonstrated a proclivity to ruin civilisation.

HMMM.....Well maybe that was too broad. How about just those commies and socialists that the new committee (called the Fish and Fox committee --sponsored by the House of Lords of course--very catchy) approves//rules are a "danger to the children of Britain" (sounds nice and universal ---that is so all the women will go for it!! ;) ).

How do you think my Yankee ideas will go over? You could save all of Britain with the Fox and Fish committee!


All we need is to manufacture a CIA document stating that foxes have developed the ability to launch missiles at the WhiteHouse in 45 minutes, and have been trained by Al-Qaeida, and the US Army will BLAST the sh1t out of them.

EASY.

Cluster bombs over Essex.

Ahh, I love the smell of fried fox in the morning....
 
TGM said:
Hey just to let you all know. There is actually fox hunting in America! I hear they are very tasty on the grill. You see Zambuck. In America we eat what we kill!

By the way, I hear there is a group in England that wants to ban fishing next!! LOL.... If that is true, I will propose a new hunting season on communists and socialists. Of course, you would only get a permit to "bag" the commies or socialists who have demonstrated a proclivity to ruin civilisation.

HMMM.....Well maybe that was too broad. How about just those commies and socialists that the new committee (called the Fish and Fox committee --sponsored by the House of Lords of course--very catchy) approves//rules are a "danger to the children of Britain" (sounds nice and universal ---that is so all the women will go for it!! ;) ).

How do you think my Yankee ideas will go over? You could save all of Britain with the Fox and Fish committee!
.....are you sure you have not eaten a mad fox meat..???

.....when you have jaundice you see everything yellow....so you americans always see commies and socialits in everything..

keep on trying...I am sure there is an ability to be more versatile with words and thought..!!
 
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...If in america you eat all you kill then perhaps you have an overstock of Iraqi meat presumably..????
 
Zambuck,

I like our transatlantic alliance. Keeps the trading day fun! Iraqi's are on sale at the local grocer. Unfortunately, they are not fresh enough for me. Although, I hear they are good smoked? Maybe, that Naked Chef of yours (Jaime Oliver) will tell us how to cook them up.

Actually, Americans do not see enough Socialists and Commies! That is the problem! They are blinded by propaganda. Speaking of hunting Commies, We need another McCarthy. We are due for a purging. When he is done here (and that will take a while), He will become our top new export to all our "allies".
 
...yes you have eaten a mad fox meat.....the grey and white matter at top has left via your bottom....

..was it a smooth passing..???
 
Serious correction

Salty Gibbon said:
I received a free publication in the post this morning entitled " The American Meltdown of 2005-2006" which predicted an enormous global economic disaster / crash / whatever in about 12 months time.

This was put out by Fleet Street Publications and Lord Rees Mogg ( or is it Ree Smog ? ) was named as one of their team's leading lights.

Does anyone know of this outfit and do they have any credibility ?

Yep they are right, remember it is a zero sum game the 80% who don't know what they are doing will give money to the 20% who do! Have a look at the descending triangle on the dow get a long term 30 year chart and look closely at the last five years.
 
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