tax

[chris1976]

Hi,i know everyones situation is different but im just after a bit of general advice

up untill now i have spreadbetted alongside my self employed day job so no need to tell my accountant.

In november i opened a usd account to trade options with options express,and am subscibed to ITMS options trade reccomendations at $99 / month

My accounts for my self employment are due for the year. do i need to make a spreadsheet with all my indiviual trades to give my accountant or just declare the money in my account as at 05-04-16 which was less than i started with and then im guessing i could also offset the service costs.

thanks in advance

 

[Mr Sept]

Hi,i know everyones situation is different but im just after a bit of general advice

up untill now i have spreadbetted alongside my self employed day job so no need to tell my accountant.

In november i opened a usd account to trade options with options express,and am subscibed to ITMS options trade reccomendations at $99 / month

My accounts for my self employment are due for the year. do i need to make a spreadsheet with all my indiviual trades to give my accountant or just declare the money in my account as at 05-04-16 which was less than i started with and then im guessing i could also offset the service costs.

thanks in advance

Think of the Trades as 'travel expenses', keep the tickets but use the Total for your Accountant.

 

[chris1976]

yeah but is that based on the actual closed trades because i had a lot of options still open which were near enough worthless.

so in other words my account was a lot less than i started with as at 4th april however the closed trades were winners,if that makes sense?

also would it come under capital gains and would any losses be offset against my income tax?

 

[new_trader]

Accountants give tax advice.

Why do you bother with an accountant if you are coming to this forum for tax advice? My advice is: ASK YOUR ACCOUNTANT!

 

[chris1976]

id doubt shed know mate shes local and just deals with people in the construction industry i doubt shes heard of an options trade

sorry for assuming a collective group of traders filling tax returns each year might have an idea

no need to shout either

 

[new_trader]

id doubt shed know mate shes local and just deals with people in the construction industry i doubt shes heard of an options trade

sorry for assuming a collective group of traders filling tax returns each year might have an idea

no need to shout either

You also assume she doesn't know? Right? Because it seems to me you haven't even tried asking her. Accountants are paid to understand taxes. I assume you are paying an accountant so you can minimise your taxes so if she can't do that then maybe you should consider paying an accountant who can. Why would you rely on a forum full of anonymous strangers for something you feel is so important? I doubt anyone here could answer your question. They will just take stabs in the dark, like they do with trading.

 

[chris1976]

to me its a pretty simple question. theres god knows how many uk traders on here and basically im asking what others do at the end of the year.

if trader x has a 10k account at the start of the year and a 5k account on tax day assuming no withdrawals can it be put down as a 5k loss for the year or does each trade have to be itemised?

 

[Mr Sept]

You also assume she doesn't know? Right? Because it seems to me you haven't even tried asking her. Accountants are paid to understand taxes. I assume you are paying an accountant so you can minimise your taxes so if she can't do that then maybe you should consider paying an accountant who can. Why would you rely on a forum full of anonymous strangers for something you feel is so important? I doubt anyone here could answer your question. They will just take stabs in the dark, like they do with trading.

....raises an eyebrow.

 

[chris1976]

well,i ve been to see her today,i told her about my options account and tried to explain to her how they work.

she showed me my tax return which she fills out online and after the part which is normally filled in relating to my self employed section there is a section which asks you if you have received any income from shares etc .
so, because i haven't and was in fact down on my account on deadline day were just going to say no and leave it at that

i hope that s right and am disapointed to not have received a bit more help here

 

[Trader333]

In your example, it is a £5K loss in my view.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

Given the prospect of your being up on the account is low, you would have lost nothing by not declaring your offsetting allowance. There's no real cause for disappointment.

Randomly hitting the jackpot in the market is rarer than making it in a lotto. Unless you have suddenly developed some kind of money making skill, any offsets you have would be left unused. Should you suddenly get the skills, you can just withdraw more money from the market and the offset is neither here nor there.

 

[chris1976]

exactly so im guessing i dont need to declare or even mention anything on my return.

im not bothered about declaring a loss as its up and down and to me i would have thought it only relevent to declare any withdrawal from the account as income

 

[chris1976]

Given the prospect of your being up on the account is low, you would have lost nothing by not declaring your offsetting allowance. There's no real cause for disappointment.

Randomly hitting the jackpot in the market is rarer than making it in a lotto. Unless you have suddenly developed some kind of money making skill, any offsets you have would be left unused. Should you suddenly get the skills, you can just withdraw more money from the market and the offset is neither here nor there.

hi joe sorry just noticed your post,didnt realise there was an offsetting allowance.

dont know what all this means,but basically im not really bothered about offsetting my losses against my regular income i was just panicing in case i needed to work out all my trades to give to give to the accountant

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

Dividends would be income. Typical market wins would be capital gains. Even if you have an overall gain for the year, no tax is due nor is a declaration required unless you go over the threshold.

Since luck doesn't work well in markets, unlike other aspects of life, it's highly unlike you can go from -5k to +15k in a year or 2 or 3. There's really nothing there to worry about.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

Capital gains or losses can't be used for offsetting income.

 

[chris1976]

great thanks joe,for clearing that up for me,makes sense