Spreadbetting - IG complaint

[tar]

It is your responsibility to know the meaning of a standard and limited account according IG's specification. If there is a gap in the market you might be responsible for the loss regardless. I do understand you position and hope it will come to a solution that you can accept as being fair. There was a guy on another thread that had a bet for £2000 on the DAX, blaming the SB for opening the position in the first place, and closing it too early (he didn't lose any money). I guess you would have been extremely grateful if IG acted according to the later.

Even if there is a gap in the market u r not liable for the losses with IG's limited account cuz all your bets will have a guaranteed stop attached

 

[mr_put]

"Did IG have a "limited" account in 2007/8?" - i don't think so. i think they only had standard and credit accounts, both with the option to use or not to use stops, or guaranteed stops, but not sure.

 

[tar]

"Did IG have a "limited" account in 2007/8?" - i don't think so. i think they only had standard and credit accounts, both with the option to use or not to use stops, or guaranteed stops, but not sure.

They have 3 account types it is not new , i checked my dealing book may 2008 and it says they offer 3 types of accounts . They changed the names only from standard to plus account now , maybe someone else correct me ...

 

[gle101]

Even if there is a gap in the market u r not liable for the losses with IG's limited account cuz all your bets will have a guaranteed stop attached

Ok I see. As I understand it, mr_put did not have a "limited" account, in the sense of it being protected, meaning not to lose more than what you actually have on the account.

 

[tar]

hi tar,

"there is 3 types of accounts , limited , standard and credit" - that might well be the case now, but i was only aware of the standard and credit accounts in 2007/8.

in terms of how the courts will know whether i am an experienced punter or not - a simple credit check will show which spreadbetting companies have run credit checks on me in the last 7 years before offering me an account - 1, IG, and i believe they did that when i opened my first account with them (and in spreadbetting in general), which was the standard, not the later credit account.

I am not talking about credit check , u claim u dont know u r liable for the losses if it exceeds your initial deposit or your credit limit , and u claim u didnt monitor your position , how the court will know this for sure ?

 

[tar]

Ok I see. As I understand it, mr_put did not have a "limited" account, in the sense of it being protected, meaning not to lose more than what you actually have on the account.

chcek this on IG homepage : " Remember that financial spread betting is a leveraged product and can result in losses that exceed your initial deposit. Spread betting may not be suitable for everyone, so please ensure that you fully understand the risks involved. "

Capitalspreads : " Please ensure that you are fully aware of the risks involved and only bet with money you can afford to lose. Whilst we provide compulsory stop-losses, they are not guaranteed and it is possible for you to lose more than your initial stake and deposit. Please ensure spread betting meets your investment objectives and, if necessary, seek independent financial advice "

Cityindex : "CFD trading and spread betting carries a high level of risk to your capital with the possibility of losing more than your initial investment and may not be suitable for all investors. Ensure you fully understand the risks involved and seek independent advice if necessary. "

some guys think that they cant lose more than their deposits , well thats wrong with SB , for example you bought alot of shares then overnight the stock went from 55 $ to 5 $ which led your balance to a negative territory , in SB terms you r liable for the losses , all the losses and you should settle your negative balance immediately unless you have a guaranteed stop attached to your bet ...

 

[gle101]

I am not talking about credit check , u claim u dont know u r liable for the losses if it exceeds your initial deposit or your credit limit , and u claim u didnt monitor your position , how the court will know this for sure ?

What I think mr_put means is, that a credit check shows very clearly that he is an inexperienced trader, due to the fact he has not open an SB account with somebody else over the years.

 

[tar]

What I think mr_put means is, that a credit check shows very clearly that he is an inexperienced trader, due to the fact he has not open an SB account with somebody else over the years.

Maybe he didnt open an account with SB firms yes but this doesnt mean he doesnt know what he was doing ...

 

[gle101]

Maybe he didnt open an account with SB firms yes but this doesnt mean he doesnt know what he was doing ...

It all depends on the years of experience he said he had trading with SB, and leverage products when signing on the user agreement document.

 

[tar]

Also bear in mind he agreed to this :

" I understand the nature and risks of spread betting. I consent to the following information being provided to me online via the IG Index website: the Risk Disclosure Notice, the Order Execution Policy and the Summary of the Conflicts of Interest Policy. I hereby confirm that I have read, understood and agree to be bound by the terms of these documents. "

also this

" I understand the agreement I am entering into with IG Index. I consent to the following information being provided to me online via the IG Index website: the Customer Agreement, and I hereby confirm that I have read, understood and agree to be bound by the terms of this document."

 

[gle101]

chcek this on IG homepage : " Remember that financial spread betting is a leveraged product and can result in losses that exceed your initial deposit. Spread betting may not be suitable for everyone, so please ensure that you fully understand the risks involved. "

Capitalspreads : " Please ensure that you are fully aware of the risks involved and only bet with money you can afford to lose. Whilst we provide compulsory stop-losses, they are not guaranteed and it is possible for you to lose more than your initial stake and deposit. Please ensure spread betting meets your investment objectives and, if necessary, seek independent financial advice "

Cityindex : "CFD trading and spread betting carries a high level of risk to your capital with the possibility of losing more than your initial investment and may not be suitable for all investors. Ensure you fully understand the risks involved and seek independent advice if necessary. "

some guys think that they cant lose more than their deposits , well thats wrong with SB , for example you bought alot of shares then overnight the stock went from 55 $ to 5 $ which led your balance to a negative territory , in SB terms you r liable for the losses , all the losses and you should settle your negative balance immediately unless you have a guaranteed stop attached to your bet ...

Yes this is right, but according to the MiFID it is the SB company responsibility to put the applicant in the right trading category.

 

[mr_put]

no one will know for sure what was going through my mind that day apart from me. but the fact that this was my first and only spreadbetting account would indicate to a court that my experience was limited, so whatever was going through my head that day probably wasn't based on a great deal of in-depth knowledge of the spreadbetting industry. regardless of what other experience i may or may not have had, these are the facts in relation to my specific spreadbetting experience.

in terms of quotes from spreadbetting company websites, how about the letter from IG saying "you have a credit account with a limit of 5k"? what does that mean? even offers you see in retail - buy one get one free, sale discounts etc - all have small print limiting the value of the offer, but the original statement is true. the 5k credit limit offering from IG has turned out to be blatantly untrue - no matter which way you cut it, there is simply no truth in that statement, and it directly contradicts their other statements about open ended exposure.

 

[ns1000]

Yes this is right, but according to the MiFID it is the SB company responsibility to put the applicant in the right trading category.

Right, but MiFID does not state that you have to give reduced credit limits to clients who claim they are inexperienced, just that to have an account, you have to understand the risks involved if dealing leveraged products. All the SBs changed their application processes in Nov 07 to make them MiFID compliant; given the number of bankruptcies due to the fallout from Oct 08, I'm sure this has already been tested, and am sure that the FOS would have kciked up had the processes not been compliant, although some posters on here would have you believe that they're stupid and inherently biased.

 

[mr_put]

"Yes this is right, but according to the MiFID it is the SB company responsibility to put the applicant in the right trading category" - even with a credit account "limited" to 5k, i was designated a "retail" client by IG. and when i applied for my credit account, i wanted 20k, IG said no, you can only have 5k...then gave me 92k!

 

[ns1000]

"Yes this is right, but according to the MiFID it is the SB company responsibility to put the applicant in the right trading category" - even with a credit account "limited" to 5k, i was designated a "retail" client by IG. and when i applied for my credit account, i wanted 20k, IG said no, you can only have 5k...then gave me 92k!

So which category do you think you should have been in? There are only three, and retail offers you the most protection.

Did the letter you got define what was meant by credit limit, or have any other warnings?

 

[tar]

"Yes this is right, but according to the MiFID it is the SB company responsibility to put the applicant in the right trading category" - even with a credit account "limited" to 5k, i was designated a "retail" client by IG. and when i applied for my credit account, i wanted 20k, IG said no, you can only have 5k...then gave me 92k!

They didnt give u 92 k , they gave u 5 k only to open positions with it ( and u managed to open a 40 k position ! something is missing ) , 92 k is your losses and you r liable for the losses even if u have a standard account like me ... you should think of a good defense simply this thing u dont know u r liable for the losses if it exceeds your credit limit will not work with all these documents u signed ...

 

[gle101]

no one will know for sure what was going through my mind that day apart from me. but the fact that this was my first and only spreadbetting account would indicate to a court that my experience was limited, so whatever was going through my head that day probably wasn't based on a great deal of in-depth knowledge of the spreadbetting industry. regardless of what other experience i may or may not have had, these are the facts in relation to my specific spreadbetting experience.

in terms of quotes from spreadbetting company websites, how about the letter from IG saying "you have a credit account with a limit of 5k"? what does that mean? even offers you see in retail - buy one get one free, sale discounts etc - all have small print limiting the value of the offer, but the original statement is true. the 5k credit limit offering from IG has turned out to be blatantly untrue - no matter which way you cut it, there is simply no truth in that statement, and it directly contradicts their other statements about open ended exposure.

Yes, I absolutely understand your point, but the court will look very closely what information you gave signing up with IG. Could you give information if there was a gap in the market, this would help in understanding your position? Anyway, it is my personal viewpoint on the information given so far, for what it is worth, that when your credit limit was reached, IG's internal risk management system should have kicked in resulting in closing out your position. SB companies has gone into bankruptcy failing to implement a proper internal risk management strategy. However, IG is a big company and can handle quite big losses when it comes to a overdrawn credit limit.

 

[tar]

Ok i found this :" Do you offer credit?

Under some circumstances, yes. A Credit account is available to UK residents who are prepared to show us evidence of �5000 liquid funds, and whom we can classify as experienced investors. "

http://www.igindex.co.uk/spread-betting/account-opening-faqs.html

 

[gle101]

They didnt give u 92 k , they gave u 5 k only to open positions with it ( and u managed to open a 40 k position ! something is missing ) , 92 k is your losses and you r liable for the losses even if u have a standard account like me ... you should think of a good defense simply this thing u dont know u r liable for the losses if it exceeds your credit limit will not work with all these documents u signed ...

If there were a considerable gap overnight, and the instrument closed during that time, it could result in a very big loss in the morning opening.

 

[tar]

If there were a considerable gap overnight, and the instrument closed, it could result in a very big loss in the morning.

Yes , but my question here how he managed to open a 200 pounds/point on the Ftse with a 2k balance and 5k credit limit ? the margin was back then for this bet 40k , something is missing !