Spread betting the mini S&P 500

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djnsfc

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Hi,

I need some help as I plan on trade the s&p 500 mini contract and wanted some advice on the best vehicle to do so? I trade very short-term market moves in European and US session time so trades can last minutes looking for 2 point (8 tick) market rotations.

Is there anyone spread betting the S&P 500 mini contract on the forums who can help out?

I have looked at a few SB firms and they seem to quote the S&P 500 index which trades in 0.1 tick increments I believe, this is not ideal obviously. But some do quote a daily rolling future, which I assume is based on the nearest futures month. which is exactly what I want. The smallest spread I have found so far is 0.3 on CMC, but the demo platform is really not user friendly and I believe that they quote the index and not a daily rolling future so really no use to me.

Thanks in advance
 
djnsfc said:
Hi,

I need some help as I plan on trade the s&p 500 mini contract and wanted some advice on the best vehicle to do so? I trade very short-term market moves in European and US session time so trades can last minutes looking for 2 point (8 tick) market rotations.

Is there anyone spread betting the S&P 500 mini contract on the forums who can help out?

I have looked at a few SB firms and they seem to quote the S&P 500 index which trades in 0.1 tick increments I believe, this is not ideal obviously. But some do quote a daily rolling future, which I assume is based on the nearest futures month. which is exactly what I want. The smallest spread I have found so far is 0.3 on CMC, but the demo platform is really not user friendly and I believe that they quote the index and not a daily rolling future so really no use to me.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

From what I gather, CMC do not offer the futures contract (or rather, their version thereof) but their own cash index. I do not know where it is, but I seem to have read in the last few days someone who said that their Dax was way out of whack (we're talking 20 points or so) for an extended period. I would not trust a bucket shop's cash index for all the liars and thieves in Parliament.

IG Index do offer something based on ES. When I used it, the prices and execution were good, to be fair to them. Platform and charts likewise. However, the spread is 0.5 (two ticks). This probably rules them out if you're only looking for 8 ticks. Also, minimum stop distance was 2 points I think. They are really only suitable for people shooting for bigger intraday moves at a minimum.

If you really want spread betting, you should probably look at the DMA offerings from FP Markets and ibetfinancials. You get to trade actual prices, all orders are executed in the actual market, and as long as you're doing solid size costs will be much lower (still higher than with a regular futures broker though). You can negotiate with both but I think their starting prices are in the region of 7 bucks per round trip, which is pretty high. Even with a free platform and free data, a regular futures broker won't charge more than $4.50. You really need a good reason to want to use spread betting to make it worthwhile. But if must have SB, I think you'll be wasting your time going with anyone apart from those two.

Hope that helps.

As an aside, CMC is run by Peter Cruddas, the man who was recently caught doing a wide boy act and allegedly selling access to Cameron and co. CMC used to operate under the moniker deal4free. They called themselves deal4free, their customers apparently preferred to refer to them as steal4free.
 
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TY Leopard,

I think you might be correct. SB'ing this instrument the way I intend to really might not work. I will look at those other companies you mentioned.
 
I'd be very interested in spreadbetting the e-mini S&P.

If I may ask, how did you get on with those?

Also, are they the only two options for Spreadbetting e-mini prices/ what about prospreads for example?

And, are there any other ways apart from opening a futures account in the US?
 
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For how I trade, the prospreads spread is too high, it would eat into my targets and would be another barrier to being profitable. If it have an 8 tick target and prospreads spread is 4 ticks roundturn i'm giving up 50% in spreads, I'd much rather pay the tax. I have used their platform on sim and it looked very good, the advantage is you're trading the front contract month and can see level II information.

The benefits of SB'ing to me are cost of entry, I can bet in so small increments that I'm able to scale in (not recommended) and scale out of my position. I can bet £4 per tick and exit £2 @ 8 ticks and then let the rest ride for example. I'd need a much bigger account the DMA route. The downside is to get good spreads on the ES, generally, you're not trading the front contract month. Unless anyone knows a company that offers low spreads on the front month?

Donkers said:
I'd be very interested in spreadbetting the e-mini S&P.

If I may ask, how did you get on with those?

Also, are they the only two options for Spreadbetting e-mini prices/ what about prospreads for example?

And, are there any other ways apart from opening a futures account in the US?
Click to expand...
 
Trade the real market for scalping the S&P as sb are not geared up for your needs and will screw you over. Get a good accountant and you will make far more net than trying to scalp with the bucket shops. You can't scalp consistently with any sb, you can only pattern/swing trade with them successfully long term.
 
If you want to keep costs down try Finspreads. Their charts and platform are adequate and only require a minimum of £1 per point on the S&P 500 rollover 0.4 spread
 
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djnsfc said:
For how I trade, the prospreads spread is too high, it would eat into my targets and would be another barrier to being profitable. If it have an 8 tick target and prospreads spread is 4 ticks roundturn i'm giving up 50% in spreads, I'd much rather pay the tax. I have used their platform on sim and it looked very good, the advantage is you're trading the front contract month and can see level II information.

The benefits of SB'ing to me are cost of entry, I can bet in so small increments that I'm able to scale in (not recommended) and scale out of my position. I can bet £4 per tick and exit £2 @ 8 ticks and then let the rest ride for example. I'd need a much bigger account the DMA route. The downside is to get good spreads on the ES, generally, you're not trading the front contract month. Unless anyone knows a company that offers low spreads on the front month?
Click to expand...

Why dont you call ProSpreads, they advertise on their website, lower spreads for volume traders.
 
pit pony said:
Why dont you call ProSpreads, they advertise on their website, lower spreads for volume traders.
Click to expand...

I would suggest iBet Financials for high volume traders or FP Markets- both companies actually offer Direct Market Access, not just DMA 'functionality'
 
Hi, I'm currently working towards daytrading the S&P 500 emini. I'm kind of starting out on this venture and so it's a bit of a learning curve currently - familiarising myself with software, order jargon, spread-betting firms?, brokerages etc.

My basic plan is to develop a strategy using the main indicators, price, volume etc.

My idea was to paper trade the strategy and then practice with small amounts in the market, and then, when I'm confident in myself, optimise the strategy.

I haven't actually developed a strategy yet but I plan to purchase some indicators, and then, hopefully, with those indicators, combined with my own trading education, I can develop..?

Anyway, perhaps the OP can reply and relate the current state of the market.
 
djnsfc said:
Hi,

I need some help as I plan on trade the s&p 500 mini contract and wanted some advice on the best vehicle to do so? I trade very short-term market moves in European and US session time so trades can last minutes looking for 2 point (8 tick) market rotations.

Is there anyone spread betting the S&P 500 mini contract on the forums who can help out?

I have looked at a few SB firms and they seem to quote the S&P 500 index which trades in 0.1 tick increments I believe, this is not ideal obviously. But some do quote a daily rolling future, which I assume is based on the nearest futures month. which is exactly what I want. The smallest spread I have found so far is 0.3 on CMC, but the demo platform is really not user friendly and I believe that they quote the index and not a daily rolling future so really no use to me.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Have a look at ActivTrades UK (USA500), it follows the ES future quite good. Almost all SB or CFDs companies as you said have 0.1 fractions of a point which is not good. ActivTrades have 0.25 per tick with a spread of 0.50 tick (2x0.25) which is good consider it to be CFDs. I trade the MT5 platform with them, it is fast and precise. I guess they probably offer the same for SB. I think it as close as you get to trade the S&P500 on CFDs or a spreadbetting platform without a high entry level stake size.
 
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JSMITH07611 said:
hi there

i am looking for a broker that has the lowest spreads on s&p 500
the lowest i have found is dfmarkets with a target spread of 0.25

see here http://www.dfmarkets.co.uk/sb/range-of-markets/spread-betting-indices.asp#

does anyone know a broker with lower spreads. if yes please can you let me know

thank you
Click to expand...
Yes a good company, this as I have been trading with them live for many years. As I see it spread in itself is not the most important factor but how the instrument moves according to the underlaying instrument. Taken this in consideration I wonder if one can get a better deal compared to let say ActivTrades 0.50 spread. 0.50 spread is 2 ticks while DF Markets might have more fractions in a point and is not following the ES future to the point. The question of spread is interesting as it involves many parameters to be considered in order to get the best deal.
 
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At present Fins is 0.4 on Daily and 0.8 March Future. After the open, I'll let you know.
 
gle101 said:
Yes a good company, this as I have been trading with them live for many years. As I see it spread in itself is not the most important factor but how the instrument moves according to the underlaying instrument. Taken this in consideration I wonder if one can get a better deal compared to let say ActivTrades 0.50 spread. 0.50 spread is 2 ticks while DF Markets might have more fractions in a point and is not following the ES future to the point. The question of spread is interesting as it involves many parameters to be considered in order to get the best deal.
Click to expand...

hi thank you for this. yes i am looking to do some arbitrage so df only offers cash which i suppose is derived from the future. i see that active trades is the futures price but even though it may move more in tandem with the future as it is a future but i need the narrowest spread for the arbitrage.

thank you
 
JSMITH07611 said:
hi thank you for this. yes i am looking to do some arbitrage so df only offers cash which i suppose is derived from the future. i see that active trades is the futures price but even though it may move more in tandem with the future as it is a future but i need the narrowest spread for the arbitrage.

thank you
Click to expand...
Yes I understand, but there are still fractions inside the 0.25 that DF is offering. So the movement per tick will not be as much as that of the future. But I understand your point of view. I have good experiences with DF Markets, altough I find their execution to be a little bit slow.
 
Splitlink said:
Fins Daily 0.4 March future 0.6
Click to expand...

The price moves in steps of 0.2 or 0.3. When its volatile I've seen it move in steps of 1.0. However you can risk as little as 50p so margin works out at £5.00. At 50p you can use the rolling and use an 80 point stop costing you 50p * 80 = £40. You can of course also hedge your position with the same contract.
 
pigbear said:
The price moves in steps of 0.2 or 0.3. When its volatile I've seen it move in steps of 1.0. However you can risk as little as 50p so margin works out at £5.00. At 50p you can use the rolling and use an 80 point stop costing you 50p * 80 = £40. You can of course also hedge your position with the same contract.
Click to expand...
Still, if you have 0.1 fraction of a point, and let us say 0.4 in spread, you have actually 4 ticks, it doesn't sound to good to me.:)
I used to think fractions was a good ting, but I must admit I have changed my viewpoint on this a couple of years back as, there is some bias against you in these ticks.
 
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