Directional
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it will usually be spreading - either calendar spreads or inter-market spreading such as bund/bobl/shatz or bund/bor, or similar.
Directional
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there is a ratio, something like 7 bunds, 5 bobl and 3 shatz and i've heard one way of doing it is to chart the spread and trade of bollinger bands on the spread and orderflow at the extremes, combined with market profile analysis.
I'm not on a grad scheme and dont trade inter-markets, just calendars so perhaps someone else can give you a bit more details other than what i've seen over the shoulders of others, but I am sure that different arcades will have different approaches.
I'm not on a grad scheme and dont trade inter-markets, just calendars so perhaps someone else can give you a bit more details other than what i've seen over the shoulders of others, but I am sure that different arcades will have different approaches.
spin2win said:HI
I HAVE BEEN TRADING FOR A FAIR WHILE, AND WONDER WHAT BASICS THESE ARCADES TEACH YOU IN THE GRAD PROGRAMME ANY IDEAS??... ANYONE KNOW IS IT JUST SCALPING OR WHICH METHODS ARE MOST APPLIED?IT CANNOT JUST BE POT LUCK
My advice is too shop around. The bigger arcades play a numbers game taking on high numbers of trainees hoping a few will stick. The smaller more bespoke outfits offer a totally different level of training. Some take on small intakes of four or five trainees, some only take on one at a time but these have very high success rates.
They try to learn about you as much as teaching you about the markets and try to find a trading platform and market that best suits your style and mentality.
Dont put up with being stuck in front of a screen and being told that you are trading the Bund. Rather go somewhere were they will work out if you are best suited to scalping, whether you are a technical trader, were you can learn charting, discover whether the long or short end suits you, currencies or equities etc.
Other things you should take into account, do you prefer a lively noisy atmosphere or a quiter more studious office? Are you provided research? Are the traders around you experienced and prepared to help you?
Look beyond the obvious houses where you can get a lot more attention and support.
cheers i just wonder what models they work off i.e. with the euribor spread would they just look tell there grads to look at the bund bund and if it drops 20 ticks the go long a mar jun euribor sprread? it seems alot of arcades have a fair share of people who can take money out the market on a monthly basis thus this is why they are there im trying to gauge the concept of what they teach you????? :?:
i wonder iwhat there main theories are? are most spreads or outrights?
i wonder iwhat there main theories are? are most spreads or outrights?
charliechan
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a lot of the spread traders are leaning on volume and looking at the implied forwards across a matrix of spreads to get in and out of positions and lock in their price. its a very crowded market now though - that coupled with the ecb's decision to leave interest rates unchanged for the future makes things harder. then there is the flipper who knows their game and is there to take their money - buy showing false volume that they all lean on, then he takes it away and hits the other side pushing them all over like dominoes.
id be surprised if the success rate doing this is over 50%. although to be fair, i have no stats - just a guess based on the fact that places like sta have a high drop out rate. it aint easy and isnt a free lunch ticket if thats what youre hoping for.
id try to do something different - like outrights or options, fx futures, whatever.....
out of interest, doesanyone know what the success/failure rate among newbies is at places like refco, sta, futex etc.....????
id be surprised if the success rate doing this is over 50%. although to be fair, i have no stats - just a guess based on the fact that places like sta have a high drop out rate. it aint easy and isnt a free lunch ticket if thats what youre hoping for.
id try to do something different - like outrights or options, fx futures, whatever.....
out of interest, doesanyone know what the success/failure rate among newbies is at places like refco, sta, futex etc.....????
charliechan
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spin2win said:
yep you got it. looking at the prices of other spreads, building structures & then getting out again, while hoping the size you are leaning on holds it together until you are out. im probly not the best person to advise though - i just know they do it this way, never done it myself.
so its 20% success rate then - slightly better than average. proof the arcades are no golden ticket like some seem to understand.
Wow. Even a 20% success rate with this game sounds good, you'd need a seriously low cost base to make it work. I take it you mean something like buy a Mar-Jun, buy a Jun-Sep, sell a Mar-Sep to be flat again. That's three round turns to make a single tick, assuming you don't scratch it instead. If you do 60% wins, 30% scratches, 10% losses the costs must be a serious chunk of gross profits.charliechan said:
charliechan
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yep you got it.
SOCRATES
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It surprises me that you are asking this question.charliechan said:
It is obvious that in parallel to an activity like for example selling advertising space on commission only there are stars. These are high performers who outstrip everyone else.
These high performers are high performers because they simply are, and they are not willing to give away anything to anybody, as they put their own personal interest first.
It would be naive to think, let alone ask, if any of these stars would be willing in any event to give away their methods either to newbies or anyone else for that matter, and that includes the proprietors of the business.
The moment any head drilling is attempted they clam up. If you were in their shoes you would do exactly the same.
All these naive ideas of newbies entering and being looked after, tutored and mentored, from all I hear, is pure pie in the sky.
Depends on the arcade. Look them up at the back, then check out the web sites. True some seem to have a basic churning system, but others do teach you to trade multiple markets in various styles.spin2win said:HI
I HAVE BEEN TRADING FOR A FAIR WHILE, AND WONDER WHAT BASICS THESE ARCADES TEACH YOU IN THE GRAD PROGRAMME ANY IDEAS??... ANYONE KNOW IS IT JUST SCALPING OR WHICH METHODS ARE MOST APPLIED?
SOCRATES
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Yet another myth...except for the basic churning system, which is in fact a triple churning system, of shared commissions, of as much turnover as possible at any price, and most importantly, and in the end analysis, of people.bundbaby said:
It would be more credible if arcades went about headhunting killer dealers rather than going to all the expense, effort, and time in recruiting very well educated individuals who undoubtedly know a great deal of what it is they are educated in, but zero about the cruel realities of trading as a profession starting from scratch.
Either I am very cynical or there is something I have missed, but none of it makes sense to me, sorry. Let's be realistic.
As for Pot Luck, it does not enter the equation at all.
charliechan
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socrates - yes i agree. your analysis was my initial suspicion, but i thought it would be wise to ask to get some sort of confirmation.
bank traders (another area where people assume they will be successful if only they had the opportunity ie avoiding responsibility) also have a fairly low success rate i am told.
although to present a balanced view, i would have thought it in the arcades interest to cultivate successful traders. the trader is a customer of the arcade and a happy customer is a loyal customer.
the whole thing seems similar to the turtles - heres a method, follow the rules like a machine and we should make money. odd how the turtles succeeded but the arcades dont get the same success rates.
bank traders (another area where people assume they will be successful if only they had the opportunity ie avoiding responsibility) also have a fairly low success rate i am told.
although to present a balanced view, i would have thought it in the arcades interest to cultivate successful traders. the trader is a customer of the arcade and a happy customer is a loyal customer.
the whole thing seems similar to the turtles - heres a method, follow the rules like a machine and we should make money. odd how the turtles succeeded but the arcades dont get the same success rates.
so are we all in the belief then that the arcades just spread trades as there system until they can get out either flat or in 1/2 tick profit?
so mar/jun is 4 to 4.5 you try to buy 4's and sell 4.5's and would never hit/lift you must sit on bid/offer?
and it you cannot sratch a flat trade would you then make it into a fly trade i.e
sell jun sep to have a fly and then try to get out with one side of the fly flat and the offer in 1/2 tick profit?
or are there more and more idaes???
so mar/jun is 4 to 4.5 you try to buy 4's and sell 4.5's and would never hit/lift you must sit on bid/offer?
and it you cannot sratch a flat trade would you then make it into a fly trade i.e
sell jun sep to have a fly and then try to get out with one side of the fly flat and the offer in 1/2 tick profit?
or are there more and more idaes???
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