Should I stay or should I go?

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cantagril

0 0
hey N - you are most welcome ......asking for help and advice is something too few of us do .....when we all really need it !

re the quote above ......

1) none of us are the finished article .....and must never believe we are .....unless you are always humble - you will be humbled

2) ive used a few therapists and life coaches over the years and its been incredibly useful to me - im a little more used to it as ive spent a lot of time working in US corporate cultures where americans use these guys a lot more than stiff upper lip Brits !

Though my road has been very different, it seems to me that Nowler is in pretty good hands with both NVP and Malaguti. Quite a lot of what they've both been saying resonates with me though perhaps from a slightly different perspective:

The littIe work I do these days often includes aspects of the psychology of learning. I have been interested in practical psychology from both an amateur and professional standpoint for quite some time (i.e decades rather than years) and I'd say that NVP's point above at n°1 is a goodie - there are only two kinds of arrogance, the first being that of Ignorance and Stupidity and the second is that of Brilliance or Genius. The tragedy is that we humans are not very good at seeing where we sit on the spectrum. Most of us are neither complete idiots (though even T2W has had the odd one...and a couple have been very odd indeed) nor are we rocket scientists. Whilst it's not really a recommendation to be humble, I would say that for all of us, understanding how little we truly know about anything helps us to be more open-minded and reflective. The identity of the person with knowledge is irrelevant and it is the knowledge itself which matters with the other half of the equation being the ability to transform that knowledge into sagacity/wisdom.

With regard to life-coaches and brain training etc - I admit to be a tad sceptical about a lot of these folk but again that's due to my path. My interest in psychology began when during my schooldays I realised that, for some reason, I couldn't remember lessons if I took notes. If I didn't take any notes I could recall things much better. Having an OK memory helped me scrape through my A levels but I definitely had a problem. A few years after leaving school I found myself working in radio doing local reporting - which involved ad libbing live stuff. Again, I was quite good as long as I didn't try and do it from notes because then I'd just end up try to read them and making a dog's breakfast of it.

The above embarassing experience(s) led to me seeing a hypnotherapist to try and understand what my problem was, why I had it and what to do about it. I was extremely lucky in that the one I ended up seeing quite literally changed my life in a matter of weeks. I went from having an alright memory to having a much much better and markedly different one..... and that was the start of my involvement in psychology. I can say without a shadow of doubt that not only is a good memory an aid to intelligence but it can also be a really good substitute. Some 40+ years later, I still use the techniques that I learned then and I recognise echoes of them in every life-coach/self-improvement video or presentation I've ever seen. However brilliant and altruistic or simplistic and mercenary these guys are, is not relevant - what matters is whether they can transmit the knowledge they have. If they can and one benefits, that is the only thing that counts....but if they can't, then it doesn't matter how famous or successful, how much you pay for the course, - they're rubbish and a waste of time and money.

Hypnosis is a perfectly natural state of consciousness and can be constructively used for self-improvement and self-management including a vast range of conditions that are often considered by the layman to be "hard-wired" and rigidly fixed - a few examples, would be: attention deficit, poor memory, dyslexia, stammering, phobia, laziness.....and yes, indirectly, it can be used to improve one's trading :p
 
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ssam

Well-known member
285 8
Thank you very much for the input lads!
I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond!




I really do enjoy the challenge of the markets!
I have a long history of doing things and then getting bored, only to move on (though I bring experience/skills with me).
Jobs... hobbies...relationships... I eventually get bored and want something different. However, the market is constantly changing... providing challenge after challenge. It consumes me, and I consume it. I hope it never ends :)

Coming back to your question, the current job I am in affords me some real quality trading. I start work at 9am but get in at about 8:20 so that I can read a market update from the session I slept through and to look at the upcoming data releases for the day (and a quick look a few days in advance). As I work at a desk, I have a tab open with this information, and I can glance back to it when I need to (though I try not to take the piss - I get paid to administer policies, not to trade). This would dramatically change if I took the job offer, though if I am getting the train to work then I can read what I need on the way, and set up trades on my phone. If I have to drive, I will miss that period of time/opportunity.



I too have experienced this, and while I'm sure it would happen to some degree if I got more money, I have thought long and hard about it. I currently have money set up to hit my investment portfolio a day or 2 after pay day, and if I got paid more money, I would increase that deposit amount, taking it before I have a chance to spend it.

I have nothing to sell. I left everything I had (which wasn't a lot) back in my homeland. During my reflection I realized that increasing income isn't the only way to get richer. Spending less, cutting out the material liabilities frees up money and keeps some higher digits in my bank account :) Now I try to look at things as assets and liabilities. If it cost me money and doesnt add the opportunity to make money a little later, then I will largely go without it.




While it is nice to walk into an office every morning, where I have free coffee/tea/hot chocolate, access to a fridge to put my lunch into, a microwave to heat it up, cutlery to eat it, a nice computer to do my morning trading before work and to jump over to at important moments... I am willing to go through more hardship, for the right price. The price being offered to me to leave this behind is £6,500 per year. But it's also has the cost of forgoing development, and leaving an industry that is really interesting to me.

I have made it crystal clear at my interview that progression was vital for me. I then made it clear to my team leader when I got settled into the team. I have asked to learn more processes so that I can be more complete, to which she commended my attitude. I have asked her to put my name down for sub-roles such as first aider training/fire marshal also. This again shows my eagerness to grow, but it also makes me more important to the company (though being a first-aider wont stop them laying me off if they had to).

I told them I trade and invest at the interview, and that I would like to grow in that regard if possible. I also pointed out my degree in psychology, and expressed an interest in moving into more team leader/managerial/HR positions too. They received it well and told me there will be plenty of progression for me.

I really like this job. I would not like to stay processing policies as it's a bit tedious. The novel nature of it will not last, so I need to continue to grow...taking on more, and new roles. The benefits are decent also. But... I can't shake the thought that if I just believe in myself, take the new job, that I can make something great far quicker.

In regards to additional income, not really.
I mean, I could take on labor work in the evenings and weekends to make more money, but that would decimate my market time and education. That's an enormous price for me to pay. I do know other ways to bring in decent money, but that's on the side of the law I don't want to be on :)

I will have a think about it throughout the day, but I am leaning towards staying put. I just can't shake the feeling that I need to be more confidant that I can do what I plan, and just take the extra 6.5k a year.

This clearly isn’t a decision you’re taking lightly - which I respect.

What is the ultimate end goal? To generate a few hundred a month or (like me) use trading to fully disengage from the corporate rat race, this will take me at least 5 years. Having been a member for 7 years here already, I realise that having interacted with some great people here just how important this resource is.

I read a thread on here recently where I guy went full bore, after being made redundant he decided to follow his passion and trade full time, only to discover the lonely, disengaged side of the game. From his latest post it sounds like he is getting back into a job which isn’t trading from home.

Sorry, this little bit of the reply has gone off piste but I think what I am trying to say is what is the plan B, should you blow an account (which I do not want to happen!) or you, like this forum member, decide that trading alone full time isn’t for you?

Is £6,500 your gross or net position (after additional travel costs, workwear etc)
What about your commute? Is this same distance, if the banksman role is a longer travel time, you will Need to charge your hourly rate for any travel time over the same travel time to your current place of work to establish your net/net.

£6,500 / 261 = £25 a day better off

261 being the average number of working days.
depending on capital, trading strategy, r2r ratio, leverage etc I would not say a £25 win or £ 125 a week is unachievable?

You will make the right choice, your inner compass will steer you!

I, like other good folk in this thread, would stick with the office job, but that’s because I prefer working inside when it’s winter and the soft touches.
 
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Nowler

Experienced member
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...

Hypnosis is a perfectly natural state of consciousness and can be constructively used for self-improvement and self-management including a vast range of conditions that are often considered by the layman to be "hard-wired" and rigidly fixed - a few examples, would be: attention deficit, poor memory, dyslexia, stammering, phobia, laziness.....and yes, indirectly, it can be used to improve one's trading :p

I might actually try a hypnotherapist..
The counselor I started seeing isn't really what I am looking for. I was hoping for a more Rodgerian type, but also directive.
Psychoanalysis perhaps... though I will have a look at hypno's.
 

nnash

Junior member
18 5
If you are competent at your job you should always take the higher salary from another company. You basically then get a free call option on the previous employer wanting you back at an even higher salary.

In the wise words of Charlie Munger "the first $100k is a real bitch".

Get to $100k account and then re-evaluate your goals and dreams.

If your dream is to be unemployed and day trade like all these geniuses online claim to do it is probably because they are not telling you the full story. I have a friend who pretends to be a "professional artist" that makes her living selling paintings. That is all she does all day every day is paint her terrible artwork. The reason she doesn't need a job is from the $10k a month allowance she gets from her father's trust. If she had to actually live off her art she would be on the street.
 
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cantagril

0 0
I might actually try a hypnotherapist..
The counselor I started seeing isn't really what I am looking for. I was hoping for a more Rodgerian type, but also directive.
Psychoanalysis perhaps... though I will have a look at hypno's.

Counselling can be very helpful but like all therapies (including hypnosis) it is very much dependent on the starting point/condition and the desired result. One of the advantages of hypnosis is that you can be easily taught to do it yourself and, provided that you set SMART* goals and make it a part of your life, you can use it to improve all sorts of stuff from the mundane (shopping list, trading plan etc) to the profoundly existential. It really is excellent for stress relief as one of the usual induction methods is relaxation after which one starts to look under the bonnet. It is NOT a miracle cure!

*just in case you're not familiar with the acronym: Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant and Timely
 
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cantagril

0 0
.........
If your dream is to be unemployed and day trade like all these geniuses online claim to do it is probably because they are not telling you the full story. I have a friend who pretends to be a "professional artist" that makes her living selling paintings. That is all she does all day every day is paint her terrible artwork. The reason she doesn't need a job is from the $10k a month allowance she gets from her father's trust. If she had to actually live off her art she would be on the street.

I think that is actually a very good starting point. Having to make money is a completely different thing to doing so as a side-interest. In my own case, though I have improved enormously in the last few years I have no intention of giving up the day-job and launching myself into the void until my regular profits greatly exceed my usual income.......which will be a while yet, and I'm definitely not fixing a date.
 

Nowler

Experienced member
1,528 229
This clearly isn’t a decision you’re taking lightly - which I respect.

What is the ultimate end goal? To generate a few hundred a month or (like me) use trading to fully disengage from the corporate rat race, this will take me at least 5 years. Having been a member for 7 years here already, I realise that having interacted with some great people here just how important this resource is.

I read a thread on here recently where I guy went full bore, after being made redundant he decided to follow his passion and trade full time, only to discover the lonely, disengaged side of the game. From his latest post it sounds like he is getting back into a job which isn’t trading from home.

Sorry, this little bit of the reply has gone off piste but I think what I am trying to say is what is the plan B, should you blow an account (which I do not want to happen!) or you, like this forum member, decide that trading alone full time isn’t for you?

Is £6,500 your gross or net position (after additional travel costs, workwear etc)
What about your commute? Is this same distance, if the banksman role is a longer travel time, you will Need to charge your hourly rate for any travel time over the same travel time to your current place of work to establish your net/net.

£6,500 / 261 = £25 a day better off

261 being the average number of working days.
depending on capital, trading strategy, r2r ratio, leverage etc I would not say a £25 win or £ 125 a week is unachievable?

You will make the right choice, your inner compass will steer you!

I, like other good folk in this thread, would stick with the office job, but that’s because I prefer working inside when it’s winter and the soft touches.


Hey mate!
My ultimate goal is to have a level of financial freedom where I can do what I want. I want to provide a better life for my family. I want to travel. I want to experience wonderful things.
Something else that I have been keeping to myself is I would like to be a philanthropist. I would love to be in a position where I can do great things for people. It's not purely altruistic though, I feel really good when I do something nice for people.

My plan is to advance in a career, moving up the ladder and earning more money. I am hoping that I can be successful at trading, but it doesn't all fall apart if I can't. Though it would really help if I could. I am also planing for the long-term too by managing my own investing portfolio for retirement. I also pay into a pension which my employer contributes. So if I somehow mess up my own portfolio, I have that to fall back on.

The £6,500 was before costs.
I've put any notions of taking the job offer to bed. I am going to see what I can make of this current job. All the while working on my trading and investing goals.

It would me amazing if I could make a living from trading/investing, but I am not putting all my eggs in that basket.
 

Nowler

Experienced member
1,528 229
If you are competent at your job you should always take the higher salary from another company. You basically then get a free call option on the previous employer wanting you back at an even higher salary.

In the wise words of Charlie Munger "the first $100k is a real bitch".

Get to $100k account and then re-evaluate your goals and dreams.

If your dream is to be unemployed and day trade like all these geniuses online claim to do it is probably because they are not telling you the full story. I have a friend who pretends to be a "professional artist" that makes her living selling paintings. That is all she does all day every day is paint her terrible artwork. The reason she doesn't need a job is from the $10k a month allowance she gets from her father's trust. If she had to actually live off her art she would be on the street.

Thanks for the input mate!

100k would be nice :)
My first milestone for my trading account is to make back the 68% I lost when I began.
When I do, i'll start depositing money into it.
Currently clawed it back to 22% down
 

Silverston

Junior member
30 5
Hello there, bit late to this party and I see you already decided to stay, I think you made the right decision.

But I was thinking about your situation and you have alot going for you but looking back at what I did at a similar age that worked maybe consider;

- get some clarity from your employer about exactly when you can start training toward a qualification, don't let it drift
- possibly look to get a mentor, not just for coaching/motivation, but someone who is already doing what you want to do, for a specific role or profession you like, maybe you could be a trading psychology coach? - you ideally want someone you can work closely with, preferably one on one or in a small team, maybe as their employee, and pick up all the nuances of the business from so you can leapfrog ahead and do the same thing in the future, you need to be thinking about working closely people at much more senior, your bosses bosses because I expect you are under-employed in your role. Why not seek out these people in the UK, like Brett Steenbarger for example in the US. I'm sure they charge £200/hour for coaching.
- Develop a roadmap to where you specifically want to be in 5/10 years and work backwards to create a concrete plan
- Why I like professional qualifications is that you generally control whether you get them or not, its not up in the air like promotions that can be a bit fickle with office politics and favouritism. Qualifications generally you can just put in the hard work and guaranteed a higher salary - but think longer term because everything is at risk of obsolescence thesedays
- think about what business you could run and be self employed because then you will have the time freedom to trade when you like
- Remember that everything's got an opportunity cost
- Short term pain, long term gain - but try and enjoy the journey
- Keep your long term and trading interests plans close to your chest with people who haven't got your best interests at heart and unfortunately that's probably most if not all people at work
 
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Nowler

Experienced member
1,528 229
Thanks for the input mate.

I have been considering talking to the 2 department managers in work. I'll see if I can do it this week. My next in the chain of command is my team leader. I've made it crystal clear that I am here to work hard, and to progress. Fortunately, I have come in at a time where more people are needed to administer this 1.1million policies coming in. Unfortunately, the team leader positions have been filled, and what hasn't, will likely be filled with the current initiative which trains people like me to be team leaders.

My best hope for team leader is if someone leaves, AND for me to get on to that initiative. I will work on it though. The company is growing, so perhaps positions that dont exist yet will in the near future. So as you said, get in snug with senior managers.

Your suggestion about finding someone like SMB's guy, Steenbarger... this is purely in a personal/professional way right? I got a.bit confused on first read and thought you were suggesting I work for them...?

In regards to qualifications: I currently have all I need in order to study for my first exam. The LF1.
I will clarify when I can sit it, but I know they said I have to sit it inside of 1 year (I'm there 5 weeks). My probation period lasts 3 month, so I'd imagine once I get past that, I can sit it. Unless there is set periods where it can be taken... I'll ask.
If the exam was only based on chapter 1, then I would ace it :) However, I have 7 more chapters to go. I'll get to it

I really do need to settle on a career of some sort. I've started a lot of things, but not finished them to the point that I am highly qualified.

- DJ
- Fitness instructor
- Sports Hypnotist
- Psychology Degree
Etc...
 

Silverston

Junior member
30 5
Ok, sounds like you're on track, I was thinking longer term with the trading psychology thing and not suggesting you work for them but its an example of what's possible if you're interested in that side.

Also I forgot to say you really need to commit and get something under your belt now, even if you move on later, it will reflect well on you whatever you end up doing. The other thing was that know that many people career plateau/earnings plateau around the mid 40s and unless you're in an equity position somewhere/owning the business your prospects may be limited for the second half of your career unless you're really creative and determined to retrain or whatnot at that age - so its important to be doing something you like or on the right track sooner rather than later.
 

Nowler

Experienced member
1,528 229
Ok, sounds like you're on track, I was thinking longer term with the trading psychology thing and not suggesting you work for them but its an example of what's possible if you're interested in that side.

Also I forgot to say you really need to commit and get something under your belt now, even if you move on later, it will reflect well on you whatever you end up doing. The other thing was that know that many people career plateau/earnings plateau around the mid 40s and unless you're in an equity position somewhere/owning the business your prospects may be limited for the second half of your career unless you're really creative and determined to retrain or whatnot at that age - so its important to be doing something you like or on the right track sooner rather than later.

Good point on the second half of my career.
I will hone in asap. Thankfully I dont have nor want kids, so that adds a lifeline to my career in regards to my current age.

I obviously like psychology, and I like trading/investing (counselling too). Perhaps being some sort of trading psych could be an option.

Anyway, I feel like I am narrowing in on something for myself. Let's see how the next 12 months pan out. First step is to pass probation, then the second is to pass that first exam inside 8 months, maybe even sooner. The sooner I do, the sooner I can work toward the CF1 exam.

Thanks for the help
 

Nowler

Experienced member
1,528 229
...

heres some Tony for Free.......his "change the blueprint" is a really good way of looking at things and adapting

[video]

and as a bonus heres 2 of the greatest mentors together that have ever graced this planet ...I use Wayne Dyer to stay humble and recognise the greater forces around us

[video]

N

I played the first one last week when you posted it. Really liked it!
Many of us are aware that certain things we do/think are not helpful, but it so often drifts back to the subconscious again. I certainly could do with re-framing some things. Something ive done recently is to put the words "Waking up is the first win each day!" on the whiteboard on the wall on the side of the bed I get out. So when I wake up and sit on the side of the bed to compose myself, I acknowledge it. Nothing major, but it puts a positive spin on my morning.

Maybe I should also put up in brackets "Not pissing the bed is another win! :) hahah

I'll flick on that second video now before I tuck in to a book i've been neglecting.
 
 
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