shorts

[eezyTrader]

Forgive my ignorance, but I was unaware that a person could go short on a share, as there must surely be an exchange of share certificates, even if just theoretically. It was my understanding that a person could only short a product such as a future which doesn't require 'ownership'.
Are shorts only used as part of the compitition to make it more interesting?

Can anybody enlighten me?

 

[stevet]

you can short a US or German share directly at the exchange, but at retail, its harder to short a UK share, but you can use CFDs or i suppose spreadbetting to short if you want, and of course, if it has a Single Stock Future you can short it with that

 

[eezyTrader]

Great, thanks for the info. What are CFD's? Would futures or spread betting be the best tactic for a bear market, or just to stay far away - a very difficult thing to do? It seems the more I read the more there is to learn!

 

[stevet]

To make money in trading, it does not matter if it is a bull or bear market and even in a market which is trending down, you might make a lot of money from being long at times

Trading is not a part time occupation, and anyone who does it part time is doing it as a hobby and is losing money

The only way to learn to trade, is to spend a year full time trading - you'll lose money for that year, but if you are a trader and able to learn, you will go on to make money

Futures are the only way to really make money trading unless you develop arbitrage strategies

 

[FTSE Beater]

What are CFD's? Would futures or spread betting be the best tactic for a bear market

Hiya eezyTrader

It really depends on your experience and the trading capital that you have. CFD's and futures I would say require a lot of knowledge and a substantial trading capital.

I use a spread betting company. http://www.finspreads.com and http://www.deal4free.com

Finspreads is good for testing out systems and getting a feel for the market, as you can place a bet from 1p a point upwards.
Deal4free offers better prices but there is £1 a point minimum trade size.

Just in case your not sure how it works. You place a bet on a price. Say Vodafone is at 100, and you place a bet at £1 a point, every point it moves in your favour, you make a £1 and vica-versa.

Trading is not a part time occupation, and anyone who does it part time is doing it as a hobby and is losing money

The only way to learn to trade, is to spend a year full time trading - you'll lose money for that year, but if you are a trader and able to learn, you will go on to make money

Hi Stevet

I have to disagree with you on this point. The majority of my learning has come when the markets are closed. Ok you have to work on longer time-frames, but there is no reason, why you can't make money. I doubt you would make as much as you would if you traded full-time, but then you shouldn't expect to.

If your working during the day-time, then as long as you put in some reasonable stops to get you out if things go really wrong, you can still make money.
I would also say if you can make money trading part-time, and you decide to make the switch to full-time trading, you would be very well set.

 

[stevet]

FTSE Beater

Do you trade full time?

Someone can start to learn part time, but 99% of leaning to trade, is actually trading for real.

Thats the only way you learn and watch all the the theory go out the window when you are head to head with the market

 

[FTSE Beater]

Hi Stevet

Yes I do trade full-time (well for the last 3 weeks anyway)

The real test of nerve comes when you trade full-time and it's true to say you learn a lot quicker, but then it's the same as doing a full-time job - as your constantly working and learning during the day time.
There is only a limited amount you can learn from trading part-time, but then you only expect to make part-time profits and the knowledge you do acquire is the ground work for all future trading anyway

 

[Naz]

Hi eeezyTrader

Here's my imput.I'm a full time UK based Nasdaq trader.The great thing about trading the Nasdaq with a US broker is that you can go long and short in your normal account.You can also start to learn part time because the US markets shut at 9pm GMT.So you can watch the markets live when you get home from work.

Infact some of the best moves happen after lunch at 2 pm EST (7pm GMT).You never have to look over your shoulder as to what is happening on any other countries markets because your trading the markets that lead the world.The Nasdaq is the place for volatility and therefore it opens the way for bigger profits,both long and short.

T/a works remarkably well on Nasdaq stocks.Spreads are so tight it makes UK traders weep.Your broker may very well be able to offer you level 2 direct access which will allow you to trade direct into the market.However if you didnt want to use this you can still use internet brokers that will work the order for you.

There are number of UK based brokers that offer access to the US markets but their costs are higher.There is quite a lot of info and comments on the US market on the Market chat thread.

I hope this helps.

NAZ

 

[stevet]

FTSE Beater

i asked as u seemed to disagree with my earlier point about there being no such thing as part time trading, you are either a full time trader or it is a hobby and hobbies cost money

the fact you have just started trading full time explains your answer, we need to talk a year from now!

if you are a trader type, and if you learn from all your losses, and count all your wins as luck, you will end up doing well

but you need to get though a full years full time cycle to really start to learn

 

[eezyTrader]

stevet, FTSE beater and Naz
Thanks for all the good advice. It seems I will have think long and hard as to how serious to take this 'hobby' of mine. Full time is unfortunately out of the question for me, so I'll probable tinker a bit on the edges so that I don't get burnt.
Thanks again
Noel

 

[ChartMan]

Follow my DOW posts under the TA section. I usually do a bit for the 7pm traders, ie those that have a full time job and want to dabble in the evenings. You can setup a spreadbet account for £100 and trade 1p per point on the dow or nasdaq- the 7pm traders can have really good fun, and some room to make profits. It also gets you into looking at what has happened during the day and try to make an informed descision about taking a position. You should join us in the US chat room in the evening- you'll be welcome, beginner or not.

 

[tradingintime]

Hello,

It,s all a bit scary.

I have traded for the last 2 years and lost 150k. Now due to a number of reasons I am going to trade CFD,s.
I have spent 4 months looking at software from a number of suppliers and also dealing providers and have found this site the best to get information from.

Chartman you are scare, I try to follow what you are doing but I need another few months to understand. I have downloaded from a number of sites the meanings and now have a better understanding and have collated the data but my brain cells have to correlate this date.

As of 10th July it will be my living to trade. I have had 6 months of playing and have now set up my machines/charts and environment. I have opened 2 accounts for dealing for CFD,s the main one being Cityindex and will trade 20K into this account. I expect over the next year to brakeven with a bit of luck.

I believe that unless you do this for a job/living you will only lose money.

By the way you may not have heard about FEAR and GREED but 150K went that way. I will be trading the DOW and later the FT100 when I have refined my way of trading and my FEAR/GREED (still there).

The step from having spare cash and playing with it so that you can say "O I lost 20K today" (that was an ego bit) to making money is a job and that is how I intend to treat it.

Four months of learning, one month to go before I start trading in CFD,s. I do know that if I had started 4 months ago the rest of my money to play with would have gone.

It,s all a bit scary

 

[stevet]

onceagain

if you want to make money - forget the dow - its not for professional traders - that is traders who make money - and its certainly not for a beginner - albeit one who has been in the wars!

if you want to start with the US markets, trader emini S&P futures contracts, but you maybe better off trading the FTSE to start with, and even better for you would be the Eurostox 50

the european markets are easier to trade, since once they breakout, they tend to continue a trend in the morning and then respond to the US in the afternoon - the morning european markets are heavily manipulated, but as long as you learn the game, they are easy to trade

once the US opens, you are then in the hands of the US markets, even if you trade the European markets, so you have to be a lot more on the ball

But, forget CFDs if you want to make money trading full time - stick with futures for transparent and fair trading, narrow spreads, good liquidit, and low commisions

And the 150K you lost to date, is a bit heavy, but i guess you just started with too much, but there is real value in what you lose, as you will see when you start trading again - there is only one way to learn - and that is pain! but if you lost 150K, someone made it, so there is no reason you can't start hitting 6 figures once you get into the groove

 

[options]

Onceagain.
Wow, 150 grand and an ego trip to say that you lost 20 grand in a day. were you happy to say that you lost that amount of money in one day. I would be mortified.
Here's a bit of advice that you don't want to hear.
STOP TRADING.
At least until you go back to basics because you are doing something very, very wrong. Quick tip? Whatever you are doing reverse it.
You seem to be mixing and matching markets and trading platforms if one isn't working for you.
You should find a market you like. Learn that market and how to play it, then select a trading platform to suit.
Whether it is cfd's futures or options you can lose money very quickly in all,
I favour the ftse future market at present because it's a market I have taken the time to learn. Tight spread, low commision (with the right brokers) But at ten pound a point if you have 5 contracts and the market goes against you the loss can mount up very quickly, of course the reverse is true as well. (And if you spread bet, the way the sb's fiddle the price around will mean that you end up losing more if you are not on the ball) But it's not a market I would reccomend at present as a good market to trade.
The euro stoxx 50 has very good liquidity and tight spreads and I have recently been informed that the e mini s&p is even better.
I haven't any charts for these at the present, so I stick with what I know.
You say that you are going to do this full time because you think this is the only way to make any money. Don't hold your breath.
You can make money at this part time. Whats wrong with holding a share for a couple of days then selling? Or if you can withstand any potential drawdowns take a position in the futures market and use a well placed stop to get you out of trouble should the need arise.
What reason do you take a trade on? Do you use charts to decide, Please don't tell me you take the advice of a broker.
Of course it's better to do this full time, but are you really ready for it? What makes you think you will fare better by full time trading?
Sorry to be so hard, but how much money are you willing to give away before you realise that you need to change your approach to trading.

John (Options)

 

[payneg01]

Hi onceagain
Food for thought, I have been watching Chartman Naz and all the other traders on this (great) site for over a year now. What I am trying to do is learn there good points and develop my own trading systems that are best for me. Not wishing to be rude, but taking losses like yours seems a bit extreme. Clearly your systems are not working to well, it might be a good idea to back off, and go back to school for a little while. I know at least two of the guys on this site give one on one tuition, I've watched there seminars on cd, and this was a next to no cost. Get trading fit and strong, with your own systems. Then go get em !!!

Good luck
Greg

 

[stevet]

options

The only way to learn is to trade full time, you cannot learn anything trading part time. When you trade full time, you will see what i mean

The emini S&P futures is the best market to trade, but it is also the second hardest, after the Nasdaq. But they are the best because you can make the most money, but you have to know exactly what you are doing.

Far safer are the European indexes, and once they are learned and someone is making money, they can then start to learn all over again on the US markets

It does not matter how much you lose when learning, since the only way you learn is from losing, and real agressive traders can make over 1000K in a morning, althohg most shoot for a regular 2 to 3 K each day as they have family and mortgages

This guy may have 150M so losing 150K maybe just like losing change to him, and he needs to lose 150 just for it to hurt enough for him to learn.

But, i repeat, trading full time is key to becoming successful, and all the books etc are written by people who learned the basics, but neven learned to trade.

You would be amazed at the real basic stuff that professionals use to trade off and these guys can make 500K+ per year, year in, year out

 

[neil]

Onceagain

Kin eck you lost 150k.

OK......stop trading.

I am not being harsh for the sake of it but you need help and sound as though you are willing to receive same....excellent.

I humbly suggest you read what you can on technical analysis and trading. You will get to a point where after so many books that you will think " I have read this before."

Great....watch the markets and what happens to price bars in relation to volume. Read Chartman and keep watching prices.

As mentioned by others, try Finspreads to test your trading knowledge. I f you cannot make money with pennies then you are not ready for the market jungle.

Do you know what a stop is? What discipline entails?

I do not trade full time but have studied and practised extensively, testing myself with Finspreads.

My trades are normally held for a day or more with STOPS set beforehand. Sometimes I trade intraday on US shares and listen in to the trade2Win chatroom where you can comment on what you think will happen to prices realtime and find yourself in a useful discussion with others on this site.

However, we all have evolved different methods of trading to suit ourselves.

Indeed, try covering your screen (Unless your software does it) with a bit of cardboard and try to work out the next bar/price direction from the preceding bars. Interactive learning

Again, already mentioned above, some here offer courses that cost no where near the £150k you lost. You will get impartial comment on your actions, a tested method(s) to start you off,
and a friendly smack on the ear if you fail to pay attention

So stick around, get your hands dirty, ask questions, read the site's knowledge base.

Don't look for the holy grail of trading...there isn't one. The guys above don't pretend to sell one. They offer a disciplined approach to the market coupled with the exposition of knowledge and experience that it would take you a long time, and mounting losses, to achieve.

And welcome aboard.

 

[neil]

Light reading

Found this site which might interest some but I do not endorse any Ads. found there.

I post it primarily for the market round up found there.

http://www.thewelshwizard.com/MARKETS.HTM

 

[options]

Stevet,
I do trade full time. I trade the ftse futures and I am doing very well at it thank you.
I am merely offering an opinion to help other people. And I am adamant that you can make money trading part time. Maybe not a couple of grand a day. Some people don't want to make lots of money per day, just enough to keep an interest going. There're plenty of part time traders on here doing just that. So don't say you can't make money part time. You can't make as much as full time trading, but then that's obvious isn't it.

 

[ChartMan]

OK great thread guys and lots of useful help, But read between the lines.... saying you cant make money part time trading is not true. One can. True,not as much as if you were trading full time, but you can ( and I do) make money part time. Saying you can't learn from part time trading is also a bit harsh. You can learn a lot, but you will learn much more when you do start to trade full time, especially if the object is to earn a living.
I'm being objective here and trying to give a more accurate appraisal of some of the statements made so far.