short selling...CFD....ig markets

[raysor]

In T+10 im assuming you can end the trade before the 10 days is up. Thats just the deadline.

It's a rolling settlement. So the settlement day rolls forward as each trade date rolls forward.
So Trade 9/4/09 T+10 settlement is 27/4/09 (business days)
Trade 14/4/09 T+10 is 28/4/09
Trade 15/4/09 T+10 is 29/4/09
To close an open trade your +days for the closing trade have to reduce each business day by one (until T+1). You have to be a bit careful about using T+1 as in certain circumsatnces it is a bit to quick to settle (I think it takes about 30hrs or something to settle). If this happened you would have an outstanding debit for the purchase for a few days until the sale settled.
If you need to know about the different settlement dates there is a Rolling Settlement Calendar published.

 

[jonboy123]

If you were trading short term, and as you say with a bit of gearing you would be dealing T+10 (or even T+15). As you say if you "close" the trade before the settlement you just receive or pay on balance. So on T+10 the last day to "close" is nine days after the opening trade and you deal T+1.
Presumably an online system would do this automatically for you.
"Hoodless and selftrade dont allow T+3 etc" Is this a typo? T+3 is the default settlement.
I won't say anything about Hoodless-you can do your own research.
MM-Market Maker.Unless you have DMA (Direct Market Access) this is irelevant. If you look on the level two system you will see the SETS order book and the MMs (WINS-Winterflood,SCAP-Shore Capital, EVO-Evolution etc.) If you are dealing in FTSE100 presumably you will be dealing through SETS (order driven) unless you are extended settlement then I don't know how online works.
There is a bit of an explanation on Level 2 here Shareworld - Main Articles

when i have bought shares using hoodless and selftrade...there has been no option to choose T+3 or longer periods, i need the money in the acccount in full at the time of the trade. With TDWaterhouse, when you buy, theres an option which settlement time to choose.
Yeah level 2 pricing, i dont think i need that, not at this early stage. I plan to swing trade initially, few days/weeks time spans.

 

[jonboy123]

It's a rolling settlement. So the settlement day rolls forward as each trade date rolls forward.
So Trade 9/4/09 T+10 settlement is 27/4/09 (business days)
Trade 14/4/09 T+10 is 28/4/09
Trade 15/4/09 T+10 is 29/4/09
To close an open trade your +days for the closing trade have to reduce each business day by one (until T+1). You have to be a bit careful about using T+1 as in certain circumsatnces it is a bit to quick to settle (I think it takes about 30hrs or something to settle). If this happened you would have an outstanding debit for the purchase for a few days until the sale settled.
If you need to know about the different settlement dates there is a Rolling Settlement Calendar published.

i think your 9/4/09 example is wrong.........23/4/09 is correct answer?
i get the concept...mon to fri only.
...... good info thanks.

 

[raysor]

i think your 9/4/09 example is wrong.........23/4/09 is correct answer?
i get the concept...mon to fri only.
...... good info thanks.

You are taking the pee now! I'm never wrong (only on stock selection!). If you count 10 business days you will arrive at 27th (we have two public holidays during the 10 day period). To be more precise you only count days when the market is open (including half days).

 

[jonboy123]

You are taking the pee now! I'm never wrong (only on stock selection!). If you count 10 business days you will arrive at 27th (we have two public holidays during the 10 day period). To be more precise you only count days when the market is open (including half days).

sorry...yeah got it...thankyou....great thread.

CFD share price is the same as normal share price isnt it?
ive got metatrader4 which only deals with 10 FTSE companies CFD's.
When analysing the company, the data and share price will be the same wont it?
CFD is just the word for the actual way you are going to invest/trade......

 

[raysor]

sorry...yeah got it...thankyou....great thread.

CFD share price is the same as normal share price isnt it?
ive got metatrader4 which only deals with 10 FTSE companies CFD's.
When analysing the company, the data and share price will be the same wont it?
CFD is just the word for the actual way you are going to invest/trade......

Crikey Jonboy, we've done this bit already!
Yes it's exactly the same. The stock is traded in the market in exactly the same way as a normal trade.
As I say I could buy the stock in the market and ask the CFD provider to adopt it.
There is no such thing as a "normal" share price. You could buy Barclays at 178p and at the same time I could possibly buy at 177p

 

[jonboy123]

Crikey Jonboy, we've done this bit already!
Yes it's exactly the same. The stock is traded in the market in exactly the same way as a normal trade.
As I say I could buy the stock in the market and ask the CFD provider to adopt it.
There is no such thing as a "normal" share price. You could buy Barclays at 178p and at the same time I could possibly buy at 177p

lol sorry dude.... im hyper to learn....thankyou.
(i bought a share for 15p recently, and when now i look at their charts, the highs, it does not say 15p was a high....the charts say much less, like 10 or 11p. sorry off topic)

 

[raysor]

lol sorry dude.... im hyper to learn....thankyou.
(i bought a share for 15p recently, and when now i look at their charts, the highs, it does not say 15p was a high....the charts say much less, like 10 or 11p. sorry off topic)

Depends how the chart works. Presumably it is tracking the middle price, and maybe 15 min or half hour intervals.
Obviously 15p was the high--cos you paid it!!!
How did you manage to get the high?
I think you got a lot of learning to do, else you will keep getting mugged.
If you take time to look at level2 you will see not many people pay the offer price if they can possibly help it, especially in penny shares (yes 15p is probably a penny share!)

 

[jonboy123]

Depends how the chart works. Presumably it is tracking the middle price, and maybe 15 min or half hour intervals.
Obviously 15p was the high--cos you paid it!!!
How did you manage to get the high?
I think you got a lot of learning to do, else you will keep getting mugged.
If you take time to look at level2 you will see not many people pay the offer price if they can possibly help it, especially in penny shares (yes 15p is probably a penny share!)

i think i paid a huge spread diff.....i didnt even check...... i saw the share for 10 or 11p and when i pressed buy i assumed thats the price i would pay..... until it dropped and i had a closer look.....oh well...lesson learned....
15p was never the official share price valuation.....its just what was offered to me, and i paid it......its not even in the charts!
(i havnet got level2, dont think i need it ...quite yet, if ever, im not day trading)

 

[raysor]

15p was never the official share price valuation.....its just what was offered to me

Who offered it??
I think the FSA would be interested if that were the case!!

 

[jonboy123]

Who offered it??
I think the FSA would be interested if that were the case!!

selftrade website.
XEL.
lesson learned = never trade in bed half asleep before having had a big mug of coffee.

 

[jonboy123]

"With a CFD you tell the CFD provider to buy 1000 Barclays at 160p. He goes to the market and buys 1000 Barclays at 160p , coughs up £1600 and puts the shares in his CFD account. He debits your account with, let's say 10% for the margin, i.e. £160 and essentially lends you the other £1440 at 2-3 points above base.
Ok, in this case there is no point in the CFD because soon the interest is going to outweigh the saving on SDRT."

so CFDs have smaller stamp duty compared to normal share trading?

"2 - 3 points about the base"
what does points mean? i keep hearing "point" or "points"......

 

[megamuel]

jonboy, you seen this?

Hoodless Brennan fined £90,000 by FSA over sales techniques - Business News, Business - The Independent

 

[jonboy123]

jonboy, you seen this?

Hoodless Brennan fined £90,000 by FSA over sales techniques - Business News, Business - The Independent

ouch..... thats a 2006 article....but yeah, bad history.
I was woken up by a phone call, from hoodless last week....
he tried to get me to sign up to their advisory account... hard selling it.....
long list of questions.... i handled him.... i told him i was not gonna commit to
anything.....(as i was speaking to him, it reminded me of the film boiler room and i even said ive heard of these cold calls etc and im skeptical)..... they wanted to sell me advisory service where they recommend trades for me which would also be discounted shares, but just a slightly higher commision..... i just picked his brain about random trading questions like short selling etc.... he was a nice chap....said he would call me back in 3 months time to see how my trading is going......lol ..... also gave me his number.... i said i doubt i will stick with hoodless, as im trying other brokers and i prefer selftrade aldready over hoodlesss.
(he was good though...as when i first answered i was angry and half asleep and ....during the convo i got up and took a liking to him as he was helpful too, not overly aggressive but still pushing his product)

cheers dude.

 

[megamuel]

I think selftrade is very reputable as far as I know. Might be better sticking with them and sacking off this Hoodless. Its a stupid name anyway

Sam.

 

[jonboy123]

I think selftrade is very reputable as far as I know. Might be better sticking with them and sacking off this Hoodless. Its a stupid name anyway

Sam.

selftrades charting is beautiful...try it...dont even have to register.
hoodless is a good name, i like that.
im looking at TDWaterhouse too, heard good things about them and more sophisticated account features.
hoodless has won alot of awards for best broker etc....and its cheaper than selftrade.

if im Long on an investment with hoodless....should i wait with hoodless and cash out when time is right....or should i trasfer my account share holding over to selftrade?

 

[raysor]

"With a CFD you tell the CFD provider to buy 1000 Barclays at 160p. He goes to the market and buys 1000 Barclays at 160p , coughs up £1600 and puts the shares in his CFD account. He debits your account with, let's say 10% for the margin, i.e. £160 and essentially lends you the other £1440 at 2-3 points above base.
Ok, in this case there is no point in the CFD because soon the interest is going to outweigh the saving on SDRT."

so CFDs have smaller stamp duty compared to normal share trading?

"2 - 3 points about the base"
what does points mean? i keep hearing "point" or "points"......

You can work out the breakeven time period-depneds on commission rates etc.
NO stamp duty (SDRT) on CFDs
Percentage points. If Bank rate 0.5% they might charge 2.5%

 

[jonboy123]

You can work out the breakeven time period-depneds on commission rates etc.
NO stamp duty (SDRT) on CFDs
Percentage points. If Bank rate 0.5% they might charge 2.5%

cheers.
so in that example its 2 and half points?

1% = 1 point ?

 

[jonboy123]

If you take time to look at level2 you will see not many people pay the offer price if they can possibly help it, especially in penny shares

But how do you BUY the BID price?
In my experience, I can only buy the OFFER/ASK price (the higher quote)

The way to NOT pay the OFFER price, would be to put in a limit order of somewhere in between the BID and ASK?? and wait and hope it gets filled?

 

[jonboy123]

You can work out the breakeven time period-depneds on commission rates etc.
NO stamp duty (SDRT) on CFDs
Percentage points. If Bank rate 0.5% they might charge 2.5%

I dont understand the word POINT and POINTS. (sorry)

eg. 2 - 3 points about the base

and in spreadbetting, £10 per point.