Self taught? Impossible!

[The Leopard]

But in reality anyone who even watches a youtube video on S&R, reads a book on trading, listens to advice from an expert is not completely self taught.

This is not actually correct if you wish to use the proper definition of self-taught.

Someone who picks up a book and learns a language substantially by himself is commonly recognised as being self-taught.

Someone who used the same book but studied it under the guidance of a teacher would be taught.

"Self-taught" does not imply the deduction of everything from first principles - rather it means that someone has progressed under their own direction. The use of texts and educational materials does not mean that someone is not self-taught.

 

[The Leopard]

Or are we saying that 'self-taught' means using no information from any third party whatsoever?

I hope not, because anyone who does say that can readily remedy his ignorance of basic English by consulting a dictionary.

 

[MoonRocket]

i suspect you neither make a living trading nor have won a masters.....therein lays the challenge as that also applies to newbies......
....with respect

You are quite right...I have played three rounds of golf in my entire life and didn't bother to keep a card.
And also I do not make a living from trading..........but I'm so, so close.......but then again I live modestly.
How 'bout you..... won a Masters?

 

[Splitlink]

it can be done. Market Wizards mentions some of the self taughts.

It cannot be done.

Unless

every trader read, absolutely, nothing, even on this site. Everything read, or heard, goes into the brain and influences future actions.

Everything read is an idea that most people accept or discard but whatever, he is taught something.

 

[rsh01]

It cannot be done.

Unless

every trader read, absolutely, nothing, even on this site. Everything read, or heard, goes into the brain and influences future actions.

Everything read is an idea that most people accept or discard but whatever, he is taught something.

how much reading material was written about the stock market (and was widely available) 100 years ago? In livermores days I reckon a lot of the traders didn't read a thing - bar the tape. And that method has been ever popular for pit traders even today (well it has for the pit traders I know).

 

[counter_violent]

Self taught trading and win is possible in trading as well. Because each and everything is available online related with trading. So it is more easy.

Complete tosh !

Just because information is available does not mean it has any value. Further, if you are a trading newbie/numpty then how can you properly asses if such information has any value.

It's like the blind leading the blind, one or two might make it but the rest will fall off a cliff.

 

[Eric Geddes]

You can self-teach if you are prepared to do the work. It involves doing the research, making the experiments, analysing your results and re-iterating the whole process. Boring, balls-aching and time-consuming. But that's what you have to do. You have to understand it all yourself - if you can't or won't be bothered then perhaps become rich as a dodgy-type coach (no disrespect to the few excellent ones).

It's no good following the herd - though you need to know what they do because some of it's ok. Most great achievers do their own thing and stand out from the crowd.

 

[Splitlink]

how much reading material was written about the stock market (and was widely available) 100 years ago? In livermores days I reckon a lot of the traders didn't read a thing - bar the tape. And that method has been ever popular for pit traders even today (well it has for the pit traders I know).

I forgot about Livermore. He was an exceptional man. I suggest that the pit traders that you know have all read somethng since then. It is the law of passing on information and the reason why humankind progresses all the time.

 

[Eric Geddes]

It is the law of passing on information and the reason why humankind progresses all the time.

- That's just a pre-requisite. Great advances are made by new thinkers who put their thoughts into practice and can persuade others that they are right. (Why we now know Sun doesn't go round Earth)

 

[DionysusToast]

Toastie......Your original argument was..... all the books (except paradoxically a golfers book) were useful for only wiping ones bum with and even then they weren't much use.
So......don't start jibbering on about "delivery mechanisms".

I still think the same MR.

99.99999% of trading books are total sh1te.

I'm just trying to get a handle on what 'self-taught' means,exactly.

The thing is - I know a few people that do well out of auction market principles and volume profile analysis. None of them would ever have stumbled across it themselves.

So where is the line with 'self-taught' ? What third-party info is allowed for the self-taught trader? None at all?

Or are we just talking about people that somehow managed to wade through the sea of bu11**** out there on forums/books and pull out the gems?

 

[robster970]

Or are we just talking about people that somehow managed to wade through the sea of bu11**** out there on forums/books and pull out the gems?

That describes my journey - reading stuff only adds value when it is useful and only after you have some experience to frame it with........

I was out with my Mrs this afternoon entertaining the dog and just generally chatting. I spent a lot of yesterday reflecting on a good run I've just had and spent a large part of yesterday afternoon experimenting with something on SIM in real time and assessing some of the nuance associated with recent performance. Anyway something went click like it does sometimes and I was explaining it to her. She has a vested interest in it and my performance so is a good listener. After explaining it she then said that conceptually she understands much of what I say but she cannot, in any way relate it to what happens on screen.

I think that about sums up the difference between reading about it and doing it.

 

[rsh01]

I forgot about Livermore. He was an exceptional man. I suggest that the pit traders that you know have all read somethng since then.

Definitely not, some of them can barely read! The ex cme floor trader I know is the only academic one (I am not saying this is a requisite to learning through books or other mediums), and he trades the same as the others - all from the price (mainly), tape, flow etc, and that's how he got his edge doing exactly that (rarely does he look at charts). I didn't think about asking whether this was standard for the floor though. Interesting that they are all v similar traders. Was great to trade in same room as them, but you didn't learn much...though I suppose what I did learn was that you 'can gain an edge' from purely watching the market all day/every day.

 

[new_trader]

This is turning into a chicken or the egg causality dilemma...who taught the person who taught the person who taught the person...etc...etc...

The markets aren't that complicated really...buyers and sellers...supply and demand...once you grasp this simple concept and the uncomfortable reality of what is involved to trade it successfully you are about 99.999% on your way to success.

The Zen type notion that "anyone who thinks they have nothing new to learn from someone else is doomed to fail" is specious gibberish. When I make a losing trade I know exactly why I lost, simple misjudgement or impatience are the usual culprits. It’s not as if I am left bewildered and compelled to seek an answer 'out there'...That is like a newbie who thinks adding just one more indicator will do the trick...

 

[Triggerfish]

To become self-taught, one will require an IQ of 124+, this group of people don't require assistance to learn....they can find the information and master the methods by themselves.

Self-taught is simply self mastery, self dependency, self reliance with self directed research and self control......knowing what is important and what is not and not being influenced by others.

 

[kwickwool]

I like new traders attitude to be fair. When i started trading never read any books or took any advice on systems etc for the first 6 months and just watched and watched and watched the markets and wanted to get my own perspective on what the market was about before being influenced by anyone else. This was a very intentional step for me.

Picked up some info later on that was useful but still think would have got to where i am regardless, and to be fair 99.9% of stuff on this forum is crap and for bored traders.

Fact is, and mentioned it before but this is the ultimate in evolution, only the strongest survive and the rest get spat out, end off. If you rely on anyone else for your trading or have a rigid system you will get spat out with all the rest, eventually, constant evaluation and evolution in this game will keep you ahead of the rest, and that is where the shepard and not the sheep attitude comes into its own, like new traders.

anyway, gl all.

 

[tony1979]

The Zen type notion that "anyone who thinks they have nothing new to learn from someone else is doomed to fail" is specious gibberish. When I make a losing trade I know exactly why I lost, simple misjudgement or impatience are the usual culprits. It’s not as if I am left bewildered and compelled to seek an answer 'out there'...That is like a newbie who thinks adding just one more indicator will do the trick...

Again, if you think no one can teach you anything then you'll fail in the end. Not being able to grasp why this will be the case is in line with your incorrect belief.

 

[kwickwool]

I like his attitude and think he has a better chance of making it than someone who relies on others and requires teaching to succeed. I see nothing wrong in someone trading with what they themselves have built up from studying the markets for a totally fresh perspective away from the herd, and continually evolve within that within their own world of trading.

Yes a bit arrogant etc but nature of the beast with this game.

 

[tony1979]

An example...i could inform wannabe traders, and 99.9% of individuals who consider themselves traders on this board, of 3 things (and that's just off the top of my head) that they are not applying in their trading, which would make a massive difference to their bottom line annually, REGARDLESS of their timeframe or method. Do i have the motivation to do so?? No. But, if you're happy with average results, or your ego is too fragile to admit there are people that know more than you, then carry on by all means. N.B - this is not a bragging post.

 

[kwickwool]

lol, huge assumptions by yourself there that with limited information here you really cannot claim, pretty poor answer all things considered so going to leave it at that.

 

[tony1979]

lol, huge assumptions by yourself there that with limited information here you really cannot claim, pretty poor answer all things considered so going to leave it at that.

Nope. In fact, assuming 0.1% know already what i'm talking about is incredibly generous!