Searching for a trading system

[adrianallen99]

A boring Saturday afternoon, so I decided to see how many people were trying to find a trading system by doing an online search. This is just for overture search engine, so I wouldnt like to guess how many used google or yahoo.

I wonder how many people found what they were looking for.

Looking at the amount of searches, it is no wonder so many people get caught out paying for junk systems.

Searches done in July 2004
Count Search Term
14259 trading system
12250 stock trading system
2760 future trading system
2735 forex trading system
1180 ultimate trading system
1106 day trading system
1105 commodity trading system
973 currency trading system
586 option trading system
553 commodity future trading system
496 online currency trading system
444 online trading system
424 commodity option trading system
286 stock market trading system
279 forex day trading system
204 day trading future system
189 penny stock system trading
188 emini future system trading
177 online future trading system
177 stock option trading system
153 stock index trading system
146 emini trading system
145 trading system software

Incidently 'traders international' was at the top spot on the search engine, so they must be feeling pretty pleased with themselves.

 

[donaldduke]

There are more people who make money selling systems/courses/books/newsletters etc than there
are people who make money by actually trading itself.

Ofcourse the reason for this is that there so much demand from losing traders, as your results show.

 

[KuJaX]

yep, i agree with Donald. The sad thing, with the trading systems, if they are so successful, why are they selling them?

 

[SOCRATES]

There is no such thing as a system. But there is such a thing as a method. There is no such thing as a short cut. There are no short cuts, but there is a lot of work to be done, first on understanding and accepting how all this works. Secondly by perfecting onself. Thirdly by applying it and not gossiping instead, and asking a lot of silly questions. The number of really serious traders on this website can barely be counted on the fingers of two hands. All of these are distinguished by never asking questions of any sort, but instead by providing lots of answers, all of which go unheeded.

 

[Skimbleshanks]

I believe there are three stages - Knowledge, Skill, and Action.

First you have to acquire the correct knowledge, then you have to practice until you transform that knowledge into a skill, and then you have to be able to act on it all. And the Skill and Action parts are the hardest. Well, they were for me anyway.

 

[SOCRATES]

Absolutely correct. And in addition you have to cultivate the ability to make up your mind quickly and change it slowly, which is the opposite of ordinary life. Hence people are not accustomed to this and find reasons to blame everything and everyone but themselves in the course of blunders committed of their own making. If it were not so serious it would be funny.

 

[TheBramble]

The number of really serious traders on this website can barely be counted on the fingers of two hands. All of these are distinguished by never asking questions of any sort, but instead by providing lots of answers, all of which go unheeded.

That makes no sense Socrates. As soon as you assume you know all the answers your science becomes a closed science. Just as was thought of Physics at the turn of the last century.

And when that happens, when you think you know all the answers, you stop looking. When new facts present themselves they are discarded because there can be no new facts in a closed science. This is the road to ruin.

And in addition you have to cultivate the ability to make up your mind quickly and change it slowly,

Which does not fit either. You need to be able to do BOTH quickly AND correctly.

 

[SOCRATES]

This is not a science, Bramble, it is an art form. If it were a science you could learn it from textbooks. You could accurately quantify it and all the indicators would work, but it is not like that at all. I am surprised at you ~ I really thought you knew better, unless you are trying to tease me again.

And as for making up your mind what I mean is that when an opportunity presents itself there is no time to dither, because none of it is there for your benefit or mine.

 

[TheBramble]

Socrates, I use the term 'closed science' as an example. Any time any of us decide that we know all the answers - we simply stop looking for new information. I know this stuff can't be learnt from textbooks - thank goodness. It was your statement about never asking questions. Even at your level - you still ask questions - even of just yourself - surely?

As for teasing you - well, I might. But i'm not.

And yes, making your mind up, there is no time to dither, but having made it, you need to be flexible enough to the Universe of what is happening now - to change it - just as quickly.

N'est ce pas?

 

[SOCRATES]

Not any more Bramble, I used to when I was unravelling the whole riddle on my own, but now I have the whole thing sewn up I don't need to any more, I just act, whoosh, just like that !

The only exception occurs when the outcome you expect is not the one you get, or it does not crack immediately, or you are filled too easily, then you must act, quickly, without any emotion whatsoever, because this is a clue that conditions may have changed and although you were right originally, now you are not and have to respond accordingly.

Oui, ca va mon cher.

 

[axthree]

Socrates. A blinding light. No I'm not being silly.
I have been learning, slowly and painfully and do make a small profit....now.
It is indeed I think, an art form, but one aided by science of a sort.

 

[TheBramble]

The only exception occurs when the outcome you expect is not the one you get, or it does not crack immediately, or you are filled too easily, then you must act, quickly, without any emotion whatsoever, because this is a clue that conditions may have changed and although you were right originally, now you are not and have to respond accordingly.

And that is exactly what I'm talking about. Immediate (pre-instantaneous?) response. Having made your mind up you are ready to change it - just as quickly.

As for no need for further questions - I am further impressed.

So, just what DO you have questions about?

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates. A blinding light. No I'm not being silly.
I have been learning, slowly and painfully and do make a small profit....now.
It is indeed I think, an art form, but one aided by science of a sort.

Granted. But it cannot be mechanised, is what I am saying. It can be tackled at a mechanical level effectively, if particular attention is paid to entry points, risk/reward, and stops. But this also people do not want to hear or be told. They have better ideas. They disregard the experience of all who have gone before us and they have nasty accidents. At the total art form level, the entry point is always present, the risk / reward is an insignificant consideration and the stop is in the head, very tight, and with lightning response to carry it out . Everyone wants the latter without having to do the apprenticeship in the former.

 

[SOCRATES]

And that is exactly what I'm talking about. Immediate (pre-instantaneous?) response. Having made your mind up you are ready to change it - just as quickly.

As for no need for further questions - I am further impressed.

So, just what DO you have questions about?

The carbunkles of humanity.

 

[TheBramble]

The carbunkles of humanity.

I wish I had the fortitude, armour and time to go down that road myself. I'd put it all right - given a fulcrum on which to rest...

 

[JumpOff]

Art Form Vs. Science

I expect the downfall comes when we expect that we can do some kind of "knowledge dump" into some mechanical system. - Can't be done I tell ya! The reason it can't be done is that many traders probably can't even explain to themselves exactly how they choose to put on a position. - They think they can, but there are worlds of things they know, that can't really be put into words or formulas.

There are reactions to subtle signals that just go under the concious radar. Have you ever seen a cutting horse work a steer? It "knows" which way that steer is going to break, It's not woo-woo intuition, its just the experience of reading the signals, knowing that most other avenues are already cut off. If we could get into that horse's mind, we might see things like, the left ear is cocked back, the right eye is squinting, the weight is coming off the right rear hoof, therefore I estimate an 80 percent probability that he will break to the right, etc.. but I doubt it. I think our massively parallel processing brains (and the horse's too) just paint a mental image that says, "here it comes, he's going to break to the right..."

That's not to say that mechanical systems can't work. I suspect they can keep you from making multiple horrible mistakes (like a set of training wheels on a bike). But I also know that most of them are rules based upon lagging indicators (what's happened already), which may not have anything to do with what's happening right now.

Your mileage may vary, I new at this and I consistently lose.
JO

(Darn, while I was typing this- I missed a nice little setup I'd been watching for....)

 

[layman]

I think Socrates was correct when he said "You have to cultivate the ability to make up your mind quickly and change it slowly, which is the opposite of ordinary life."

 

[al76]

You all must be bloody good traders to have the time of thinking and writting all that.
Each individual is different, it would be difficult to aggree on our trading approach as we are all ego motivated.

 

[stevet]

"make your mind up quickly and change it quickly" - the key to real trading and since trading encapsulates life - this is the same for all life