SAVIUS a new prop firm looking for traders and...your comments

rsh01

Experienced member
1,184 299
er.....scrolling down savius website it says:

SAVIUS LIVE PREPARATION $495 which includes.....

~60 minutes live assistance with a Senior Trader
~1 x trading course document

is this is a joke?
 

rsh01

Experienced member
1,184 299
Savius are scammers (imo)

er.....scrolling down savius website it says:

SAVIUS LIVE PREPARATION $495 which includes.....

~60 minutes live assistance with a Senior Trader
~1 x trading course document

is this is a joke?

just waiting to hear back about probably the highest cost in the world ever for an hour trading coaching.

whilst we wait, the probabilities are SAVIUS ARE SCAMMERS: this is based on the fact that there are hundreds of actual mentors-regardless if successful traders or not-who offer similar products but for fractions of the price of:

(copied from their website)
SAVIUS FULL PROP COACHING US$ 2495

1 month daily assistance
1 month access to our Auto Strategies Signals (Algo Trading)
1 x trading course document
-------------------------------------
on evidence, these guys are cowboys.

there are successful traders who mentor (contrary to 'mainstream' belief), & offer monthly daily assistance at a 90% discount to SAVIUS. many good traders do it for free. why so honourable? there are many reasons, but some are keen to try to steer newbies clear of such 'enterprises' as savius.

do your research, nothing comes easy.
 

DT

Well-known member
312 39
pretty dubious, a firm asking for money from potential 'traders' isn't likely very successful when it comes to trading

there are other firms out there paying salaries/bonuses - that is the bottom line really, does the firm make money from trading - if they can't afford to pay you a salary and are asking you for money then it doesn't look like they do
 
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SAVIUS

Junior member
26 1
Savius

Hi rsho1 and thanks for your questions; again we dont mind a little skepticism if it's backed by a genuine interest for an intelligent discussion.

First of all let me repeat once again: OUR COACHING IS NOT MANDATORY - we dont ask for any capital contribution from traders or force traders to buy a $2500 course so that we can later use their funds for trading...this is what other prop houses do and why we decided from the start to create a new business model. So you dont want/need coaching? just Skip it!- we like training traders because we can teach our method and trade management approach but it's time consuming and ideally we would prefer hiring a bunch of senior traders with solid track records.
Traders who wish to join our firm will simply need to submit their past 3 months track record or if they dont have one or it's not very consistent they can take a shot at our challenge for a sign up fee of $198 - if they pass they get to trade 100% of our funds.

More specifically regarding your questions:
- Savius is a startup but our background is a combined experience of 40+ years in the trading business. We may not have experience in running a prop house but we have experience as proptraders. You can check our bios under the about us button or linkedin.
- We have a strict risk management model and a software that includes a kill switch/autoliquidation feature
- the firm takes the loss...again traders are not responsible though that scenario you described is highly unlikely also because of the various layers of risk management we provide
- we use primarily Transact/Sierra Chart where we were able to build a series of customized trading tools
- we are looking mostly for remote traders but we do have limited desk space in our office in Chicago for a couple of additional senior traders - So it's possible for a senior trader to trade from our office for a small monthly fee (depending on the leverage and expertise). For remote traders once again there is no monthly fee or capital contribution.

Regarding your attack on our $495 Live Preparation Course, please note that it's not just a 1 hour session with a senior trader...that is simply an extra service. The course itself is a pdf with almost 200 slides covering our methodology, our mindset preparation, trading arsenal and risk and trade management. We actually believe it has a pretty outstanding value. As you know there are various outfits in the US that still charge 10/15k for training. There is nothing hidden on misrepresented in what we do...all i am writing in this post is already on our website so we dont really appreciate being called "scammers".
 

SAVIUS

Junior member
26 1
Hiring traders

Hi DT, please read carefully our original post. If you have a solid 3 months or more track record you dont pay a penny to trade for us. We take 100% of the risk and keep at most 50% of the upside...zero desk fees or monthly cost for you. Believe it or not when we first started 2 years ago we hired 3 senior traders out of almost 400 candidates and we gave them capital and a small monthly salary - 5 months later all 3 traders had reached their max dd..so went back to the drawing board and came up with a more efficient way of selecting candidates which is not based on a simple resume but either on a real track record or on a live demonstration (on simulator) of your trading skills.
 

roberk

Active member
136 1
I see your fee for the trial 10 days is 198$.
So its more expensive than topsteptrader which seems to have the same business model.
Is there any advantage with signing up with you?
 

moka2

Established member
529 14
Prop Test! business model

There seems to be various business models at the middle or lower end of the Prop trading " Business"

1) AT the very top end very large firms / banks etc where they Hire people with high end education and give salary .. they will still kick you out if you don;t perform
NO capital contribution or "Training costs" for the trader
Completely regulated

2) Same as 1 but no salary ( Regulated you need to be Series 7 etc in US)

3) Charges large fee for education + capital contribution .. still regulated

4) Companies like yours , charges a smaller fee for a test , little or no education

This business model of having a base test at$198-300 etc is great for you but why it has such a bad reputation is because it seems to be based on just collecting the $200 fee over and over again and hoping that out of 100 only 2 needs to be funded

So if you are so ethical why not make the test still tough but free of cost!
BY THE WAY THERE IS NOT EVEN A STREET ADDRESS ON YOUR WEBSITE!
 
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SAVIUS

Junior member
26 1
I see your fee for the trial 10 days is 198$.
So its more expensive than topsteptrader which seems to have the same business model.
Is there any advantage with signing up with you?

Hi Robert,

Yes it appears that our Trading Challenge is more expensive but i wouldn't say we have the same business model. We are a Propfirm first and foremost and are using the Challenge as one of many recruiting vehicles. We also hire Senior traders with existing real money performance (no challenge, no fee required) and from time to time we give challenges away when we need to hire a new Junior trader (we just gave 15 challenges for free in a special event sponsored by Infinity Futures).

Thank you,
 

SAVIUS

Junior member
26 1
Prop Models

Thanks moka2 : great analysis!
Everything you wrote is absolutely true.
When we launched this project with my partners we studied all prop firm models and created Savius with the idea to take the best and leave the worst of each .
Model 1 ( as per your description) , too selective, leaves out a lot of good traders just for a sort of “discrimination”. Furthermore the best traders we met did not come from famous universities.
Model 2 .as you say, same as model 1 but no salary
Model 3: We didn’t like the idea of mandatory education . One should take the program if he/she feels in need for it.
That model is based on the idea to use the funds the junior pays for his education to cover his trading risk once he goes live. In that way the firm is always risk free.
Same if the Prop ask for capital contribution: they provide financial leverage and charge possibly increased commissions but take no risk.
Trading is taking a controlled risk and we are mostly traders, so we discarded also this model.
Model 4: you can include us in this category somehow but with a few differences.
Education is nowadays a very competitive business and very energy consuming.
Partners come from the trading industry not from education or marketing, that is why we like to focus on what we know best.
That being said , as we do trade, we are sure of our method and we are there to show it to those who want to learn it, but it s not at all mandatory.
As per above we have taken a few traders live as you say, without any capital contribution .
Why not making it harder and free of charge?
As without even that small capital contribution from aspiring traders the Challenge will turn into a big Playstation. Making money on the sim account is extremely easy, there is no emotional attachment. Making it with a trading plan is harder, and when you try to transform that result into real money most of the times the gap is huge.
We do need some sort of filter and the Challenge is conceived to put traders under stress: they pay some money and they have to perform . That being said passing Challenge it’s not at all a guarantee that they will be profitable when they trade our funds.
Let s be brutally honest about this for once:
1) If you are a professional trader you do not need our leverage, you may be interested in Savius just to become part of a structure with a potential career development .
2) The cost of the Challenge is the equivalent of a 20 tics trade on crude, and the standard future trader would use that risk everyday. If you are not ready to commit to that amount of risk it is probably better if you don’t trade live anyway.
3) Even if you are a beginner who decides to take the Challenge or the Combine with Topstep and you don’t manage to pass, still you have probably learned a lot more and saved more money than trading by yourself.
4) For the same reason, we basically need to sell more than 6 Challenges ( consider slippage) to cover the risk of one live trader. To make a living out of those 200 USD we would need to sell a few hundreds : that is not our business model and we don’t have the structure in place to do it . A performing live trader can make in a day the equivalent of selling 10 Challenges. That is more our business model.
5) The ugly truth is ,that so far we are pouring money to finance junior traders but we haven’t found yet any super star. The partners are still the best traders of the company, but we believe that our strength is still being able to select good investments with high risk reward, so we are pretty relaxed and look forward to build slowly our team of traders.

The office.:

If you check my linked in profile you will notice I just left my trading position just one month ago. We will have an office in Monaco for sure as we are opening a branch here, but it will take us time for the legal setup , etc , so probably it will take us 6 months or so.
Our headquarters are in Chicago at 111 West Jackon, right next to the CME, but most of our traders are currently trading remotely.
As I said we are a small startup, so we don’t have 5 offices around the globe with 100 traders and I don’t use a private jet to travel. Still we are serious professionals and we know our business enough to risk our money on this project.
Fair enough?
 

moka2

Established member
529 14
Thanks moka2 : great analysis!
Everything you wrote is absolutely true.
When we launched this project with my partners we studied all prop firm models and created Savius with the idea to take the best and leave the worst of each .
Model 1 ( as per your description) , too selective, leaves out a lot of good traders just for a sort of “discrimination”. Furthermore the best traders we met did not come from famous universities.
Model 2 .as you say, same as model 1 but no salary
Model 3: We didn’t like the idea of mandatory education . One should take the program if he/she feels in need for it.
That model is based on the idea to use the funds the junior pays for his education to cover his trading risk once he goes live. In that way the firm is always risk free.
Same if the Prop ask for capital contribution: they provide financial leverage and charge possibly increased commissions but take no risk.
Trading is taking a controlled risk and we are mostly traders, so we discarded also this model.
Model 4: you can include us in this category somehow but with a few differences.
Education is nowadays a very competitive business and very energy consuming.
Partners come from the trading industry not from education or marketing, that is why we like to focus on what we know best.
That being said , as we do trade, we are sure of our method and we are there to show it to those who want to learn it, but it s not at all mandatory.
As per above we have taken a few traders live as you say, without any capital contribution .
Why not making it harder and free of charge?
As without even that small capital contribution from aspiring traders the Challenge will turn into a big Playstation. Making money on the sim account is extremely easy, there is no emotional attachment. Making it with a trading plan is harder, and when you try to transform that result into real money most of the times the gap is huge.
We do need some sort of filter and the Challenge is conceived to put traders under stress: they pay some money and they have to perform . That being said passing Challenge it’s not at all a guarantee that they will be profitable when they trade our funds.
Let s be brutally honest about this for once:
1) If you are a professional trader you do not need our leverage, you may be interested in Savius just to become part of a structure with a potential career development .
2) The cost of the Challenge is the equivalent of a 20 tics trade on crude, and the standard future trader would use that risk everyday. If you are not ready to commit to that amount of risk it is probably better if you don’t trade live anyway.
3) Even if you are a beginner who decides to take the Challenge or the Combine with Topstep and you don’t manage to pass, still you have probably learned a lot more and saved more money than trading by yourself.
4) For the same reason, we basically need to sell more than 6 Challenges ( consider slippage) to cover the risk of one live trader. To make a living out of those 200 USD we would need to sell a few hundreds : that is not our business model and we don’t have the structure in place to do it . A performing live trader can make in a day the equivalent of selling 10 Challenges. That is more our business model.
5) The ugly truth is ,that so far we are pouring money to finance junior traders but we haven’t found yet any super star. The partners are still the best traders of the company, but we believe that our strength is still being able to select good investments with high risk reward, so we are pretty relaxed and look forward to build slowly our team of traders.

The office.:

If you check my linked in profile you will notice I just left my trading position just one month ago. We will have an office in Monaco for sure as we are opening a branch here, but it will take us time for the legal setup , etc , so probably it will take us 6 months or so.
Our headquarters are in Chicago at 111 West Jackon, right next to the CME, but most of our traders are currently trading remotely.
As I said we are a small startup, so we don’t have 5 offices around the globe with 100 traders and I don’t use a private jet to travel. Still we are serious professionals and we know our business enough to risk our money on this project.
Fair enough?

"2) The cost of the Challenge is the equivalent of a 20 tics trade on crude, and the standard future trader would use that risk everyday. If you are not ready to commit to that amount of risk it is probably better if you don’t trade live anyway."

That is what all the snake oil sales person say when asked probing questions!
It seems the model is churn the $200 as many times as possible and hope vast majority fail.. Otherwise why do you have that fee? Have the test for sure and screen them ,, by the way you say you are based in USA .. does that mean for a prop trader the joining person has to have series 7 exam? like more older forms like Bright Trading and T3 requires!
 

SAVIUS

Junior member
26 1
about myself and the fees

Mate,
This is a forum and you are free to have an opinion and to express it openly.
My CV is online on Linkedin for everyone to look at, so I m not hiding behind a finger.
I have a few traders and brokers from big financial institutions who endorsed me for finance, trading risk management, etc.. It doesn't look like a coincidence but you are free to think that I am a “snake oil sales person”.
In the end nobody knows who you are and what you do for living, still I think you have the right to say freely what you think here, and that is why I like this forum.

Let’s look into your idea of making the selection totally free for a second.

If we do it , we will probably have a few thousands subscribers per week.
At that point even my grandmother would give it a try, it would be like giving away free lottery tickets.
Savius will have to manage all these contacts, answering emails, helping them for the setup, controlling the performances, possibly paying platform fees for etc. All at our cost and expenses.
Then a bunch of subscribers actually passes some very hard test, which at this point will be mostly as difficult and aleatory as winning the national lottery.
We take them live and if they lose money we absorb the loss.
Would you invest in such a company yourself? I personally wouldn’t and I won’t .
On the series 7
We do not require any series 7 exam as we trade only futures and we are not a regulated entity anyway.
As I said many times, we do not trade using other people’s money.
 

alexaherself

Established member
560 149
This is a forum and you are free to have an opinion and to express it openly.

Aren't we all?

My opinion is that the entire thread is pure spam, and I don't see why you shouldn't pay to advertise on the site, if that's what you want to do, just like so many other businesses do.

As an active member, I resent it being here, and I don't understand why the owner allows it, knowing (as he does) that it typifies what's increasingly driving his members away - some even say so, very openly.

(Edited to add: and "You don't have to read it, if you don't like it" isn't an answer to that observation: it occupies a space on the front-page listings for this forum, whether I read it or not, and that's exactly what I and others are complaining about. You've never made one single post anywhere in this forum apart from in this thread and your sole purpose for being here is self-promotional.)
 
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moka2

Established member
529 14
Mate,
This is a forum and you are free to have an opinion and to express it openly.
My CV is online on Linkedin for everyone to look at, so I m not hiding behind a finger.
I have a few traders and brokers from big financial institutions who endorsed me for finance, trading risk management, etc.. It doesn't look like a coincidence but you are free to think that I am a “snake oil sales person”.
In the end nobody knows who you are and what you do for living, still I think you have the right to say freely what you think here, and that is why I like this forum.

Let’s look into your idea of making the selection totally free for a second.

If we do it , we will probably have a few thousands subscribers per week.
At that point even my grandmother would give it a try, it would be like giving away free lottery tickets.
Savius will have to manage all these contacts, answering emails, helping them for the setup, controlling the performances, possibly paying platform fees for etc. All at our cost and expenses.
Then a bunch of subscribers actually passes some very hard test, which at this point will be mostly as difficult and aleatory as winning the national lottery.
We take them live and if they lose money we absorb the loss.
Would you invest in such a company yourself? I personally wouldn’t and I won’t .
On the series 7
We do not require any series 7 exam as we trade only futures and we are not a regulated entity anyway.
As I said many times, we do not trade using other people’s money.

You are certainly using smart arguments in your defense and may be your intentions are not BAD however I hope you understand WHY this model raises such questions! And WHY NOT let EVERY TOM DICK AND HARRY take the free test... just tell them NO email support be given IF YOUR TRUE AIM IS TO SCREEN THE GOOD ONEs,, you will still get them! , and simple thing like not having a proper address on website.. another red flag !
This is the lowest form of so called Prop trading... IMHO
 

SAVIUS

Junior member
26 1
Ciao moka,
fair enough, I understand your point .
Address in on the website and I hope to have new office in Monaco soon.

On the rest I reckon that in a few weeks/months we will have got in touch with enough people and they will be able to express their judgement about their direct experience with us, and that would clarify if we are in good faith or not.
 

alexaherself

Established member
560 149
that would clarify if we are in good faith or not.

We can already draw conclusions about your "bona fides" for ourselves, from the obvious lack of good faith in the way you're abusing the forum's hospitality by posting here for purely self-promotional purposes, as discussed in post #27 above.

You're a spammer, and an unwelcome one.
 
 
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