Rating method is crap and useless

15 min tlb

Senior member
2,057 98
The idea behind forums is to make their owners rich , it is a business venture by an entrepreneur.Most of the content to new readers is manipulated by content managers and paid lulz merchants who destroy threads.Threads are destroyed with crap content and lulz , there are a bunch who will rate threads to one star , if it conflicts with the commercial interests or sponsored financial interests.

The idea behind ratings is for new traders to see 5 stars by a bunch of commercial interests , and one stars on threads which conflict with commercial interests or threads which unveil the truths.

These forum sites are mainly commercial sites with commercial interests.It is populated by vendors and trading gold rush merchants.

The forums are not free lunches for new traders!

Now you can rate this thread down to one star , because it tells you the truth.
 

the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
This analogy can be applied to anything. There's going to be a spectrum of opinions

The landlord and the brewery supplying beer to the local pub probably see their business in a very positive light. The local police who are called in to break up fights every weekend probably take a different view. The customers who frequent the pub probably like the place, the neighbors who incur problems with rowdy drunks throwing pizza boxes into their gardens and pissing through their letter boxes probably see the pub in a negative light. But it's just a pub !

The staff and moderators point out that the members supply the content, and if that content is crap, we have only ourselves to blame. I partially agree with them, but where we differ in opinion is that I think that they set the standards, and they provide a form of leadership that sends out a signal to what is wanted and acceptable, and what isn't wanted or acceptable

For the last few years they've been dumbing down, and they've been pursuing a more commercial agenda (and i would have done the same in their shoes) god only knows what the situation is today, I don't think anyone really knows,they appear to be a ship without a rudder.

Do you really think anyone takes notice of rating systems on threads ?
 

timsk

Legendary member
6,938 1,812
Hi 15 min tlb,
I agree with your conclusion that the thread star rating system is useless and, IMO, either needs to be scrapped altogether or completely overhauled to make it something of real use and value to members. Steve is aware of this and it's on the 'to do' list. I won't comment on the 'reasoning' behind your conclusion other than to say that you have a very colourful imagination!
;)
Tim.
 

the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
Its well known that commercial vendors will try to influence public opinion. It's not unreasonable to assume that a vendor would create false memberships, and post positive comments to their own threads, and provide 5 star ratings to their own threads

That's not quite the same as t2w manipulating the thread for their own commercial benefits, and to be honest, its one thing to suspect that this manipulation is taking place, and quite another thing to prove it.

The thread rating function is probably a standard part of their forum software, and noones really given it a great deal of thought. On the other hand maybe someone has give it a great deal of thought, and they realize that highly rated threads attract the type of traffic they desire. We simply don't know, and therefore its unfair to make accusations without the supporting evidence.

Having said that, given the extremely dodgy nature of this industry, and the shinnangins pulled by practically every party involved, more transparency would be a good thing.


It's probably a simple enough thing to test if you really wanted too, I suspect you have a few multi nics at your disposal that you could use ?
 

the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
Hi 15 min tlb,
I agree with your conclusion that the thread star rating system is useless and, IMO, either needs to be scrapped altogether or completely overhauled to make it something of real use and value to members.
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill

It's not often that you'll hear me agreeing with a politician, but he was right. That's the fundamental flaw that you'll need to address in any replacement system

Off the top of my head, it might be interesting to see which threads certain members like or dislike (privacy issues aside), the other issue is that I for example might be inclined to rate a very lulzy thread very highly, and that thread might actually be based on intelligent nonsense. This could get quite confusing for an inexperienced member who may misinterpret my rating, so the thread might deserve minus 5 stars for advice, but plus five stars 4 lulz

Out of interest, do you have stats regarding the number of votes a five star thread would typically attract ? are the votes in single figures, tens, hundreds, thousands ?

The more focus and importance you place on these things, the more likely that manipulation will take place, so any replacement needs to be transparent.

Rather you than me !
 

15 min tlb

Senior member
2,057 98
Timsk

I have seen rating system manipulated by vendors and their accomplices.Vendor opens a thread with 2 or 3 posts and immediately get 5 stars from several voters.The idea was to attract attention to the vendor's thread.I have to admit being guilty of putting 5 stars on my own thread , just for a bit of lulz.
 

15 min tlb

Senior member
2,057 98
If you go to Lord's thread , you will see evidence where he asked everyone to rate his thread up.In next to no time , there were 20 - 4 star votes.:LOL:
 

BeginnerJoe

Senior member
3,329 349
Most of the content to new readers is manipulated by content managers and paid lulz merchants who destroy threads.
I am often accused of destroying threads. So where is my pay at ? I'd love to turn it into a full time job - more profits and less risks than the market casino.

Apologies for causing the star ratings on your threads to nose dive. I know you hate it.
 

Lord Flasheart

Legendary member
9,796 975
If you go to Lord's thread , you will see evidence where he asked everyone to rate his thread up.In next to no time , there were 20 - 4 star votes.:LOL:
actually there are about 70 votes of which over 60 gave 5* and some gave 1 star just to **** us off. How could anyone score it 1 star,it offers something to the site. No doubt you have encouraged a few to score it down again. It really is time you grew up. You clearly have intelligence, just an abundance more immaturity blended with a Walter Mitty self persona
 
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the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
If you go to Lord's thread , you will see evidence where he asked everyone to rate his thread up.In next to no time , there were 20 - 4 star votes.:LOL:
In my experience, people usually do what you tell them !

Of course, only people who read the thread would see the request and presumably the people who voted read the thread because they like it, or they find it entertaining etc

That's different to deliberate manipulation by the forum owner, or vendors registering multiple users etc.

There's nothing wrong in awarding a thread 5 stars just for lulz.

I'm sure the old hands at the zoo are well aware of a lot of these issues, the old member reputation system went through several different incarnations, each designed to eliminate previous problems, but each time throwing up new problems. It's just symptomatic of the problems you'll inevitably get when humans try to exploit stuff to their own advantage.

If you cut through all of the crap, the underlying problem once again always comes back to vendors ! If there where no vendors, these problems wouldn't exist. If vendors where constrained to their own cess pit, these problems would be mainly contained to the cess pit.

Vendors cannot be trusted to behave, and they have an agenda to game any feature to their advantage, its fair enough, they have a living to make, and its a survival of the fittest situation. t2w are caught in the middle, part poacher, part gamekeeper

I'm confident Tim will have a solution that's acceptable and fair to everyone
 

15 min tlb

Senior member
2,057 98
I am often accused of destroying threads. So where is my pay at ? I'd love to turn it into a full time job - more profits and less risks than the market casino.

Apologies for causing the star ratings on your threads to nose dive. I know you hate it.
There is less risk and much higher reward in the market , but you have to be clued up about it.Make your 100 points a week @ #100 gbp per point = 10, 000 gbp per week.

We have you for lulz.
 

15 min tlb

Senior member
2,057 98
actually there are about 70 votes of which over 60 gave 5* and some gave 1 star just to **** us off. How could anyone score it 1 star,it offers something to the site. No doubt you have encouraged a few to score it down again. It really is time you grew up. You clearly have intelligence, just an abundance more immaturity blended with a Walter Mitty self persona
I voted it 4 stars , but it is good attempt at seeing live trades , it probably helped some , but there is too much trading on it not suited to my style.

I wanted to show you emotional trading decisions , so I started an emotional trading thread, I am not a vendor , the thread calls are profitable , it is not fair when people come and rate it down to 1 point .Something to learn there.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/forex/164894-joe-john-method-live-calls.html
 

timsk

Legendary member
6,938 1,812
Hi the hare,
I agree with your general sentiments and unless someone proposes a workable solution which - at the very least - minimises the extent to which thread ratings can be abused, then I''ll probably vote for it to be scrapped.
Out of interest, do you have stats regarding the number of votes a five star thread would typically attract ? are the votes in single figures, tens, hundreds, thousands ?
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking? If you hover your curser over the stars of any thread that's got a rating - it'll tell you the number of votes the thread has received. At the moment, a 5 star thread can have just one vote - and that can be from the OP! Generally, the number of votes is very low, usually less than 3. Hope that answers your question?
The more focus and importance you place on these things, the more likely that manipulation will take place, so any replacement needs to be transparent.
Naturally, but then everything we do is transparent!
:p
Tim.
 
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the hare

Senior member
2,949 1,283
How could anyone score it 1 star,it offers something to the site.
This reminds me of annual appraisals that i used to suffer in my first Job after university. Our managers where asked to rate a number of attributes and skills on a scale of 0 to 10

Most managers re calibrated the scale from 7 to 9. Complete incompetence would get you a 7 and total mastery, earned you a 9. Very few managers used the scale as actually intended by the HR professionals who destined the evaluation process.

This used to lead to the most ridiculous situations where someone with specialist knowledge and decades of experience could potentially score less than someone who was completely clueless, and this garbage was routinely used when assessing promotional prospects, redundancies etc.

I would argue that on the basis of logical definition, most threads are average ! The most common score for a thread should be 3, and if it isn't then there's something very wrong

Half the threads should be above average, and half the threads should be below

If the thread rating runs from 1 to 5, then that's the range that should be used !

Unfortunately many people seam to be inclined only to register an opinion to extremes. So if a thread is way better than average, they'll give it a 5. If they think a thread sucks, or they are deliberately trying to destroy it, they'll give it a 1

I suspect not many people would take the time to register an average thread with a score if 3

Lets not even consider the issues with temporal shifts in thread quality. A thread starts off as complete crap (started by me, or el CID or beginner joe, attracts a load of low scores, but then miraculously transforms 20 pages later into a t2w classic, but forever judged on its shaky beginnings)

Perhaps people voting on threads should be required to justify why a particular score was awarded. Your thread is a great example of the practical difficulties we have when judging the merits of a thread. There are some priceless lessons to be learned from your thread, but applicable to traders at a particular stage in their journey. The realities of seeing realistic gains and losses, streaks of good and bad fortune, and the daily grind of 3 steps forward 2 steps back is great, and there's other good practical stuff discussed from time to time. Would I advise a complete beginner to read your thread ? Well I'm not so sure about that, there are other threads that might be more appropriate, so how do I score that ?

It's a 5 star thread for some people at some stage, and a 3 star for others at another stage etc etc. then we have members who genuinely believe that people shouldn't trade a particular instrument, or that TA shouldn't be used, or that traders should diversify risk etc. those beliefs are quite genuine, and in those circumstances maybe they could justify allocating below average ratings to threads that are diametrically opposed to their own belief systems.

It's a feckin nightmare really, but the root cause of the problems with manipulation always comes down to vendors.
 
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15 min tlb

Senior member
2,057 98
Hi the hare,
I agree with your general sentiments and unless someone proposes a workable solution which - at the very least - minimises the extent to which thread ratings can be abused, then I''ll probably vote for it to be scrapped.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking? If you hover your curser over the stars of any thread that's got a rating - it'll tell you the number of votes the thread has received. At the moment, a 5 star thread can have just one vote - and that can be from the OP! Generally, the number of votes is very low, usually less than 3. Hope that answers your question?

Naturally, but then everything we do is transparent!
:p
Tim.
One or two of your stick threads are not that good , but they still get 5 stars......because most of you want new traders to look at 5 star threads.There are some good content threads , but not all of them deserve 5 star ratings.There is room for improvement.