Post your bad spread bet fills here, research needed!

[hacks]

Can American do spread betting

No, spread betting on financial markets is illegal in the USA.

 

[alan5616]

The spot forex market is notorious for slippage and bad fills. Most of the brokers, operating in this area, can do what they like as, it is an unregulated market. The old cliche that "we make our profit from the spread" is complete and utter BS.

These people trade against us-fact. We lose; they win. Fortunately, organisations like the CFTC, in the USA, go after these crooks. If you trade in the UK, you have no chance of receiving recompense from being ripped off by a forex broker.

 

[.Bear.]

Hi all

I am currently looking for a new Spread Betting Broker and have found a big problem!

I have multiple accounts and demo accounts open to find the best broker for me. I have realised that each brokers charts show different prices and candles for the same time frame.

Some touch a certain price multiple times indicating a possible support and others do not. Which is right? How can you trust the data you are receiving?

Also the candles open and close at different prices also showing different highs and lows to each other. You look at one broker and the charts suggest a possible trade. You look at another and the charts do not suggest a trade.

Why does this happen and how do you know which broker has reliable data.

I am a day trader, US/Nymex oil is the market I prefer.

I am comparing IG index, Etx capital ,GFT and Trade fair. In the process of testing other demo accounts and opening live accounts.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[kalott]

ESY00 (Cash) 1,640.46 +8.57
ESU13 (Sep '13) 1,641.25 +5.75

Barchart.com - Futures Prices for E-Mini S&P 500


which one is right

 

[The Leopard]

You will always have this problem for two reasons if you trade forex. If you trade other things the result is the same in effect.

1. The market does not exist.
2. You are not even trading this non-existent market, you are trading a synthetic version of it created by the spread bet firm. In addition, look carefully at their charts. Somewhere you will see it stated that the charts are not necessarily a reflection of the made up prices in the made up market - they are "representative" only.

The forex market is everywhere currencies are exchanged, but there is no exchange. So there is no correct price. If you want a definite price, you need to trade something that is on an exchange.

Then the spread bet companies create their own version of whatever they view as the market. That is what you are trading, and not the market. If you want to trade the real market, you need a broker rather than a bookmaker.

Finally, like I say above they make no claim that their charts are accurate.

That's forex via a bookmaker. Get used to it or trade something else.

Hi all

I am currently looking for a new Spread Betting Broker and have found a big problem!

I have multiple accounts and demo accounts open to find the best broker for me. I have realised that each brokers charts show different prices and candles for the same time frame.

Some touch a certain price multiple times indicating a possible support and others do not. Which is right? How can you trust the data you are receiving?

Also the candles open and close at different prices also showing different highs and lows to each other. You look at one broker and the charts suggest a possible trade. You look at another and the charts do not suggest a trade.

Why does this happen and how do you know which broker has reliable data.

I am a day trader, US/Nymex oil is the market I prefer.

I am comparing IG index, Etx capital ,GFT and Trade fair. In the process of testing other demo accounts and opening live accounts.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dcarrigan]

You will always have this problem for two reasons if you trade forex. If you trade other things the result is the same in effect.

1. The market does not exist.
2. You are not even trading this non-existent market, you are trading a synthetic version of it created by the spread bet firm. In addition, look carefully at their charts. Somewhere you will see it stated that the charts are not necessarily a reflection of the made up prices in the made up market - they are "representative" only.

The forex market is everywhere currencies are exchanged, but there is no exchange. So there is no correct price. If you want a definite price, you need to trade something that is on an exchange.

Then the spread bet companies create their own version of whatever they view as the market. That is what you are trading, and not the market. If you want to trade the real market, you need a broker rather than a bookmaker.

Finally, like I say above they make no claim that their charts are accurate.

That's forex via a bookmaker. Get used to it or trade something else.

excellent post. wrapped it up in a nutshell.

 

[.Bear.]

That clears it up for me.

Thank you

 

[grimweasel]

My letter to ETX this morning:

Dear Sir/Ma’am,

I noticed my account depleting of late after years of having very few issues with ETX; I keep an excel log of all trades and noticed as I was not 'losing' enough I guess in your eyes. I started to get slippage on many trades. Last night I left an OTO to short Gold at 1298 and was actually filled at 1293 but the original stop loss of 100 pips was honoured to the 100 distance from 1298 - so a 50% increase over what I was looking for and inexcusable in such light market conditions. The bloke I spoke to at ETX gave me some pathetic excuse about 'extreme' volatility in the Asian session - but I don't see a $10 move down in Gold over 3 mins as 'extreme'. Utter rubbish. I know all about slippage as I work at an exchange – your firm only replicates the true DMA market so you don’t even have the excuse the market has for real? If SB firms were covered by the FCA I would write a letter and complain. Firms that we deal with complain about micro seconds difference in trade fills on HFTs and slippage of 1000ths of a pip?! In my eyes your software needs updating to be able to deal with ‘minute’ volatility – or you need to change your business model to stop ripping clients off with rubbish fills.

The bloke also reckoned that you 'hedge out' all trades and my fill was erroneous because you need to give priority to the hedge over client orders??!! So a 50% increase in their profits at my expense. Talk about rigging and ripping off clients?! I left IG index last year hoping that ETX would serve its clients better.

Overall I’m not impressed with recent service and I’m looking at taking my business elsewhere.

 

[Visaria]

i had a quick look on my broker (interactive brokers) Time and Sales for GCZ13 (i presume this is what you were trading). At 01:21:23 this morning gold traded at 1302.9. Then there was a gap for 20 secs which is a bit odd, next trade was at 01:21:43 at 1293.3!

So although this 20 sec gap is a bit strange, it would appear that ETX filled you correctly.

 

[grimweasel]

i had a quick look on my broker (interactive brokers) Time and Sales for GCZ13 (i presume this is what you were trading). At 01:21:23 this morning gold traded at 1302.9. Then there was a gap for 20 secs which is a bit odd, next trade was at 01:21:43 at 1293.3!

So although this 20 sec gap is a bit strange, it would appear that ETX filled you correctly.

Thanks mate - I checked with IG and they had a bar down. No gap. But my argument was that this is not a volatile move! I work for an exchange - so I know what is possible with today's technology and these SB companies are plain ripping people off with their proprietary systems.

If we had HFT traders exposed to such slippage on our exchange there would be mass desertions - and these guys complain about trades not being filled in micro-seconds let alone criminal slippages such as this on negligible volume.

 

[Visaria]

Check this page out later today, you need the 18th Sept data, should show you where it traded on the underlyin market (i reckon they filled you correctly at 1293):

http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/precious/gold_quotes_timeSales_globex_futures.html

 

[PualoP]

Thanks mate - I checked with IG and they had a bar down. No gap. But my argument was that this is not a volatile move! I work for an exchange - so I know what is possible with today's technology and these SB companies are plain ripping people off with their proprietary systems.

If we had HFT traders exposed to such slippage on our exchange there would be mass desertions - and these guys complain about trades not being filled in micro-seconds let alone criminal slippages such as this on negligible volume.

Yeah mate, you need to stop whining and take it on the chin. The move down was not over '3 mins' as you say but was almost instantaneous.

 

[Visaria]

The CME has time and sales up now for the 18th, as you can see it traded 1303.7 then 1 second later it gapped past your stop to 1295.5. So ETX is basically right, they filled you at 1293 which is a lot lower than that 1295.5, but that could reflect their own bid/offer at that time.


19:21:22 13037.0 1 -

19:21:22 13037.0 1 -

19:21:23 12955.0 2 -

19:21:23 12955.0 1 -

19:21:23 12955.0 1 -

19:21:23 12955.0 7 -

19:21:23 12955.0 35 -

 

[Visaria]

What is more interesting is if you had a limit order to buy at 1298. Would you have been filled at 1298 or at 1295ish?

I had this issue with an SB recently. I put a limit order to sell before the market opened, the market opened with a big gap, the SB filled me at my limit price. I successfully argued that i should have been filled at the opening price on the underlying market which was much higher than my limit. This is actually known as "positive slippage".

 

[Vasco da Banana]

What is more interesting is if you had a limit order to buy at 1298. Would you have been filled at 1298 or at 1295ish?

I had this issue with an SB recently. I put a limit order to sell before the market opened, the market opened with a big gap, the SB filled me at my limit price. I successfully argued that i should have been filled at the opening price on the underlying market which was much higher than my limit. This is actually known as "positive slippage".

They just delay when it suits them, hoping punters don't check. Had this plenty of times.

 

[pboyles]

What is more interesting is if you had a limit order to buy at 1298. Would you have been filled at 1298 or at 1295ish?

I had this issue with an SB recently. I put a limit order to sell before the market opened, the market opened with a big gap, the SB filled me at my limit price. I successfully argued that i should have been filled at the opening price on the underlying market which was much higher than my limit. This is actually known as "positive slippage".

Quite a few forex companies have been fined for asymetrical slippage, giving you negative slippage but not positive.

The rest just haven't been caught yet. Same goes for SB.

 

[tommac]

Just trundled through most of this . Time to put things in perspective-we are "retail traders" read punters.(mainly wanabees who cant get a proper trading job or dreamers) What we are doing is a spit in the ocean compared to Institutional trading. The tools we have for doing this are fantastic compared to a few years ago. Most on this and any other forum trade in small size regardless of what you read. ( once had a chat with a leading sb company who told me that their average size ticket is £1 -4 a point with very few much larger.)
As an ex bank trader I can tell you its not too far off the real thing.
God knows how some guys trade-to lose so much or get in such a state.
Scalping is no more than a 50/50 bet
As for trading Forex , well if you have an insight into the banks positions during the day then go ahead but realise you are trading clueless.
No much wonder they say 90% lose.
YES I do make a living from trading with Spreadbetters with very few problems over the years. ----------Rant over

 

[Visaria]

What were you trading as an ex bank trader?