Poker vs Trading

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AlwaysWinning

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Hello all,

I am new to the forum and new to trading. I have made a living as a professional poker player (mostly online but also some major live tournaments) for the last 6 years or so since finishing university. I am still making money with poker but slightly fed up of the grind and looking for a new challenge and a secondary income.

From what I've read it seems like the skills needed are somewhat similar. In particular the emotional side and money management, but also the learning curve. Poker is similar in that the majority of people will try and learn a bit, lose a bit of money then give up. To make money long term you need to have huge amounts of experience/knowledge and find your own strategy/niche that works for you.

Is there anyone here with experience of both poker and trading? Anybody know any ex poker players that have turned to trading? Any profitable traders interested in poker that would want to swap some knowledge?!

Any other advice/questions/abuse welcome :)

Adam
 
AlwaysWinning said:
Hello all,

I am new to the forum and new to trading. I have made a living as a professional poker player (mostly online but also some major live tournaments) for the last 6 years or so since finishing university. I am still making money with poker but slightly fed up of the grind and looking for a new challenge and a secondary income.

From what I've read it seems like the skills needed are somewhat similar. In particular the emotional side and money management, but also the learning curve. Poker is similar in that the majority of people will try and learn a bit, lose a bit of money then give up. To make money long term you need to have huge amounts of experience/knowledge and find your own strategy/niche that works for you.

Is there anyone here with experience of both poker and trading? Anybody know any ex poker players that have turned to trading? Any profitable traders interested in poker that would want to swap some knowledge?!

Any other advice/questions/abuse welcome :)

Adam
Click to expand...

There is lots of cross over between poker and trading and that skill set should serve you well. However, I have to tell you it will be a long long road and lots of time sacrificed, maybe for nothing.
 
AlwaysWinning said:
Hello all,

I am new to the forum and new to trading. I have made a living as a professional poker player (mostly online but also some major live tournaments) for the last 6 years or so since finishing university. I am still making money with poker but slightly fed up of the grind and looking for a new challenge and a secondary income.

From what I've read it seems like the skills needed are somewhat similar. In particular the emotional side and money management, but also the learning curve. Poker is similar in that the majority of people will try and learn a bit, lose a bit of money then give up. To make money long term you need to have huge amounts of experience/knowledge and find your own strategy/niche that works for you.

Is there anyone here with experience of both poker and trading? Anybody know any ex poker players that have turned to trading? Any profitable traders interested in poker that would want to swap some knowledge?!

Any other advice/questions/abuse welcome :)

Adam
Click to expand...

Hi Adam -- Yes there are the obvious similarities such as large cahunas , money management and analytical skills etc. but there are also huge differences such as you can never " bluff " the market as it is always right ( well the majority of the time or it wouldn't exist ) and you wont be able to " bully " the market with a dominant stack as it will always have more money than you. As has been stated it is a long road to learn trading so be prepared for that.

As a suggestion for you poker " grind " , why not concentrate on heads up play. Games are usually shorter and I see it as having more skill than ring games or tourneys as you are betting more often and you get to be able to read 1 opponent a lot quicker than say 8 in a ring game or hundreds in a tourney. Then just move up the " buy ins " .Saves wasting those 6 years of experience.

A little story I like to tell people , my son's best friend since little school is also a professional poker player, mostly online. He has never had a regular job , he earns a huge amount of money a year and has won a W.S.O.P ( online ) , bracelet for hold 'em. They flew him and his friend out to Bermuda for the presentation and he is currently living it up in Thailand with my son, so it can be done.

What a life for someone in their 20's :)

Best of luck in whatever you do.
 
Thanks for the replies. I understand that it will be a long road to learn trading, just hoping it will be worth it in the long run.

@klw When I refer to poker being a grind I mean that I am fed up of playing poker day in day out. Regardless of whether you play tournaments, sit and go's, cash games or heads up it will be a grind. Unless you are putting the hours in you will not earn enough. You don't get paid holidays, pension, can't get a mortgage etc etc etc. It is becoming more competitive all the time and the golden days of the internet poker boom are well over.

Heads up is the most difficult and competitive form of poker, it takes the most skill and highest concentration levels, the rake is highest (not to mention once you have truly mastered it, next to no-one will be willing to play against you) Only a handful of maths wizards who have dedicated their lives to it can really succeed in todays game.

Regarding your son/ sons best friend, he may have been slightly more successful than me but not a million miles away. I haven't won a bracelet but have come very close on a few occasions and have also made some serious money and travelled the world playing poker. I will not be quitting poker by any means I just don't want it to be my sole income and my only skill/passion.

Yeh plenty of players have moved to Thailand, Mexico, Costa Rica etc where living costs are low so they can live like kings from their laptop. It's cool in your 20's but at some point it gets old and you start to look for something else. I'm 29 now and weighing up my options, poker will always be a great extra income but it's just not fulfilling enough on it's own anymore!
 
AlwaysWinning said:
When I refer to poker being a grind I mean that I am fed up of playing poker day in day out.
Click to expand...

you may want to consider that trading can also be a grind day in day out. Careful you do not exchange one grind for another grind. Perhaps another type of business would compliment better, something with more interaction, building something or providing a niche service. just my 2c.
 
Thanks SpreadDoctor, you could be right, I am struggling with what path to take next and maybe less time spent at the computer would be a good thing! The main advantage I see of trading over poker is that you can scale up without it becoming more difficult. For a poker player to earn more you have to play for higher stakes which means players are much better and you need to work harder to win!
 
Basically at the moment I play poker from approx 6.30pm-1.00am most nights but can reduce that when I need to. I don't travel as much any more playing live games so have plenty of spare time in the day when everyone I know is out working and I feel so unproductive. Perhaps trying to find a regular job would be best for me. I am not bothered about the wage for now, just trying to think what will be best long term. Also in a long term relationship thinking about marriage/kids soon so do not want to be playing poker most evenings for many more years!
 
The strange thing is that if I am having some success with one then the other is losing. You might think that they would either be both successful or both fail but not for me.

??????????
 
klw said:
Hi Adam -- Yes there are the obvious similarities such as large cahunas , money management and analytical skills etc. but there are also huge differences such as you can never " bluff " the market as it is always right ( well the majority of the time or it wouldn't exist ) and you wont be able to " bully " the market with a dominant stack as it will always have more money than you. As has been stated it is a long road to learn trading so be prepared for that.

As a suggestion for you poker " grind " , why not concentrate on heads up play. Games are usually shorter and I see it as having more skill than ring games or tourneys as you are betting more often and you get to be able to read 1 opponent a lot quicker than say 8 in a ring game or hundreds in a tourney. Then just move up the " buy ins " .Saves wasting those 6 years of experience.

A little story I like to tell people , my son's best friend since little school is also a professional poker player, mostly online. He has never had a regular job , he earns a huge amount of money a year and has won a W.S.O.P ( online ) , bracelet for hold 'em. They flew him and his friend out to Bermuda for the presentation and he is currently living it up in Thailand with my son, so it can be done.

What a life for someone in their 20's :)

Best of luck in whatever you do.
Click to expand...

PEOPLE SHOULD START WITH HEADS UP. The industry of course advises starting full ring but no surprise there. well done for lasting that many years after it became efficient.
 
Hey there

I was in Vegas last week and got a,taste,of,tourney poker

Can't believe how fast and loose,it was so I pulled out ..........not my bag compared to forex

In truth it's all a grind .......we are in businesses that have some leverage as we increase stakes and capital invested but ultimately we are flawed

As Rockefeller once said

I would rather take 1% of everyone else's income/efforts than 100% of my own

Which kind of leads me into the passive earning capable in building businesses and then leaving them to others to run

Then reinvesting earnings in bonds property and stocks.

That's the secret

N
 
Last edited:
Also, the time that needs to be spent to be an income rather than a hobby is significant. You may end up not having time for both.
 
NVP said:
Hey there

I was in Vegas last week and got a,taste,of,tourney poker

Can't believe how fast and loose,it was so I pulled out ..........not my bag compared to forex

In truth it's all a grind .......we are in businesses that have some leverage as we increase stakes and capital invested but ultimately we are flawed

As Rockefeller once said

I would rather take 1% of everyone else's income/efforts than 100% of my own

Which kind of leads me into the passive earning capable in building businesses and then leaving them to others to run

Then reinvesting earnings in bonds property and stocks.

That's the secret

N
Click to expand...

Welcome back, N,

Sounds like the long well-deserved vacation/travels deal went well (esp for the Mrs!). :LOL:

Poker is our game of choice amongst the options traders I work with. So many facets to the game itself (Omaha, Hold'em, etc). And also constant flow of information and emotions and personalities/energies from the other players - that often will impact our playing/betting decisions (not necessarily for the better). Definitely much more than just pot odds, implied odds! :whistlingnnI just love poker! (y) The outcomes are truly "random" and bankrolls tend to be very "volatile" during gaming sessions.

I enjoyed your statement especially on passive wealth building. (y)

Most retail traders and many institutional traders - both alike - never really learn and comprehend how to make the transition from active trading for income (time for money) to passive trading income. There are many ways to make a successful transition into a much more passive trading income basis to free up your time and focus! (y)

But still - the #1 metric = is that trader consistently profitable daily or weekly or monthly? Can the trader exploit bursts of volatility and momentum to ratchet up profits? Can the trader learn to lock up profits? Establish free trades (zero cost basis)?

What can we do to increase passive trading income - or to free up some time away from the trading screens (at least away from the time and emotionally consuming tasks of stalking and waiting for setups to appear, fail, appear, fail...)?

(1) Establish that you can trade profitably - every day or every week/month! If not there yet - RAISE your focus, Standards - seek out more to get there.
(2) For passive trading income ideas - consider selling puts, covered calls, etc. For my weekly options trades, I like to use diagonal spreads - often it becomes profitable quickly and if not, selling front week options help to recoup my Cost Basis. Then the remainder position is "free" and has a shot at making profits.
(3) Use automated technologies to Alert you to valid setups.
(4) Use automated technologies to Alert you to actual Trading execution pending.
(5) Use contract traders to follow your Trading Plan Checklist and execute 100% w/o errors (for larger accounts). Of course, you must audit daily/weekly trader performance. And trader has zero funds-withdrawal power. And trader has limited bet-exposure criteria that is arranged/built-in with the brokerage firm.

Again - just some basic ideas to help traders gain some time/freedom away from the screens and help make trading into a closer form towards passive wealth building! Of course, other passive wealth methods include real estate income properties (but has its own share of headaches, risks), internet businesses, private mortgages, tax-liens/deeds, etc.

I have a small % set aside for active trading, a larger % held for options-based passive income, and final % of funds held in assets outside of the trading/paper asset class.

T2W members - if you have NOT really thought about passive income and wealth building, please understand = these processes are very different than trading itself. A couple of helpful resources:

(1) Google "T Harv Eker" - Millionaire Mindset approach. Simple, direct, entertaining.
(2) Robert Kiyosaki - Rich Dad/Poor Dad, Cashflow Quadrants, etc. Practical stuff.
(3) Patrick Stockhausen - on trading systems, psychology, wealth building. Uses very modern graphics/technologies to educate clients. Entertaining, accurate!

In closing - get going on both formulas for sustained wealth, financial freedom: (4) Consistent, systematic profitable trading.
(5) Build up different "piggy banks" or "golden eggs" of passive income vehicles!

Never too late to start this discovery to generate passive income ... :smart:

Good luck - and really enjoy and focus and visualize on this journey! (y)

WklyOptions
 
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