Plain Vanilla Options Trades.

[Profitaker]

Socrates

It has been observed that your T2W posting frequency has a direct correlation with your short Put position profit / loss. Nuff said.

Barjon

Excuse me for being blunt but;

You would achieve more harmony simply by leaving this thread alone. It is much better to leave market forces to work a balance, rather than have an ineffectual force trying to move direction. I wish I could say that your efforts at "moderating" have been a disaster, but unfortunately, from what I've seen at least, it's not that good.

 

[stoic]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zupcon
Oh I wouldn't exactly say that, the thread has been most educational. :cheesy:


Yes, exactly conditions have been ideal for it to serve its purpose within itself, beyond my most optimistic expectations...
__________________
SOCRATES
My post is not rude, it is factual and very clear but how it serves its purpose within itself is very obvious, but it is not my fault if it is not understood in mainstream.

But it is very well understood by a select few and it is not rude.

And then, I have neither the patience or the energy to explain any further than I have ventured to comment in public, and that is not rude either, but a matter of the excercise of choice, and my choice exclusively and no one elses'.

As a consequence of all this behaviour everyone will have to wait till next weekend for a possible update.

What exactly do you mean by this? All the viewers on this thread have to contend with is what you put forward. And from that alone, it's pretty absymal!!!

I find it arrogant, and downright unfair when dc2000 does a bad trade you harp on about it, with you telling him that he should not have traded against you. But when it's time for you to take the hit, you are as quiet as a tomb. To make it worse you do not tell us the background (margins etc. . .), so what are we to make of it?

I don't care about your "we are so special, we can't divulge these edges" stance, because if a lot of great scientists were to take that stance civilisation will never be where it is now. All I will say is that stance is total BS, and smacks of insecurity. The great George Daniels (probably the best watch maker in the world right now) has said that there is no secret to watch making, and professionals who hide their workshop practices only do so to conceal their fear of competition.

I find this thread sick, perverse, and pointless. But I wish to make a valid point. That point being the disparity of what you are showing verses what we need to comfortably, and justifiably, judge for ourselves. At no point have you provided sufficient information for us to decide what is going on and what your progress is. You claim to put forward a point, but at what cost to yourself and anyone who tries to do what you are doing, like CYOF?

I am not here to go over pointless psychological games - that 's for politicians and other social manipulators. It is totally unfair, in light of those who want to judge this thread with impartiality, to withhold certain information. That being so, this thread might as well be null and void.

Not only have you've alienated a lot of viewers of this thread by your secrecy and avoidance at explanation, but you are also seen in contempt by some of them as well.

You see the following does not make any sense:

1) this thread and the information you give is for the absolute minority, not for the vast majority. Then why make it public knowing you'll get the replies that you do, or is that the exercise in itself as well?

2) because of the behaviour of certain individuals you now update weekly, how does the absolute minority feel about that? And why should the actions of the vast majority (which this thread is NOT intended for), affect the absolute minority (who probably have done nothing wrong)? Or is that just another of your wonderful little secrets to keep us guessing?

3) if you wish to converse with your equals by all means do so, but why tell us about it? Intellectual snobbery is just as valid as any other forms of snobbery. It is a brutal fact of life that, generally speaking, friendship can only exist between individuals of similar rank (intellectually, financially, socially etc. . . ), so why try to defend yourself against people who are never going to be your friends, and yet at the same time talk about your "equals" who are nowhere to be seen, and who do not really stand by you on this thread? Would it not be more appropriate to leave and go about your business somewhere else?

4) you only show partial information, therefore you can only expect partial judgement from anyone looking at this thread. What use is that?

Regards

. . . . .

PS: thanks to ducati for keeping this thread humourous and JohnG FX for his two posts

 

[Profitaker]

An excellent post STOIC

4) you only show partial information, therefore you can only expect partial judgement from anyone looking at this thread. What use is that?

He only shows partial information because that is all he knows, and has access to.

At the time, I was suprised that some folks believed those trades of soc's were anything but paper trades. Given how things have panned out, I am truly amazed that some folks still believe those trades were anything other than paper.

p.s. Somebody ask Soc to post up the margin on his so called trades tomorrow night. Trust me he couldn't. Why ?

 

[SOCRATES]

I am not interested in engaging in tit for tat argument with any of you.

Next weekend.

You have to wait till next weekend - that's all.

Take it or leave it.

 

[Priceman]

From post #1

It is time to put an end to all the nonsense.

Please do now, this has gone far enough. What is the conclusion?

In order to maximise the premium, timing is of the essence and I will be annonouncing details as and when appropriate.

Funny that, as now it's not appropriate to answer anything.
.

I did initially say my respect goes to you if you pull this off but you haven't proved a thing actually. Shame really as the subjects you chose could really be inspirational to lesser beings like myself. If only you told all the facts as they unravelled. There isn't a lot left for you to say now is there Socrates?

 

[SOCRATES]

From post #1


I did initially say my respect goes to you if you pull this off but you haven't proved a thing actually. Shame really as the subjects you chose could really be inspirational to lesser beings like myself. If only you told all the facts as they unravelled. There isn't a lot left for you to say now is there Socrates?

Yes there is but I prefer not to explain in detail and just for you to witness the final results.

Everything is known and planned in advance.

All of them wil expire worthless or near worthless and I will get to keep all the premium.

 

[CYOF]

Hey Jon,

Nice to see you following my lead - the list:

Nice going.

 

[bluetipex]

Yes there is but I prefer not to explain in detail and just for you to witness the final results.

Everything is known and planned in advance.

All of them wil expire worthless or near worthless and I will get to keep all the premium.

Socrates

Assuming that they all expire worthless or near worthless, and you get to keep all the premium, would you then a) proclaim that your hypothesis has been proved and b) recommend this strategy for others to follow?

 

[SOCRATES]

Socrates

Assuming that they all expire worthless or near worthless, and you get to keep all the premium, would you then a) proclaim that your hypothesis has been proved and b) recommend this strategy for others to follow?

(a) It will show my hypothesis is always correct because it is professional and wholesale and not amateur and retail.

(b) No, this not a strategy for just anyone to follow or even to try to copy. It is a very specific strategy unsuitable except for the very few. But it will show that the writer has the edge over the buyers....it will show that the writers posess what matters......which is the ultimate edge...... which is what counts in the final analysis.

 

[SOCRATES]

You see the following does not make any sense:

1) this thread and the information you give is for the absolute minority, not for the vast majority. Then why make it public knowing you'll get the replies that you do, or is that the exercise in itself as well?

When I started this thread my intention was not elitist. But the responses it has stimulated has made it elitist, by default.

2) because of the behaviour of certain individuals you now update weekly, how does the absolute minority feel about that? And why should the actions of the vast majority (which this thread is NOT intended for), affect the absolute minority (who probably have done nothing wrong)? Or is that just another of your wonderful little secrets to keep us guessing?

You do not understand. I will do my prudent best to explain to you.
The behaviour of "certain individuals" as you call them. has caused me to become even more circumpect and prudent about the release of further information than when I first started this thread.

The absolute minority are firmly behind my policy of restricted disclosure, because as events have turned out, it is the wise and prudent thing to do, which the absolute minority embrace and support. They remain silent and avoid public exposure because they agree.

3) if you wish to converse with your equals by all means do so, but why tell us about it? Intellectual snobbery is just as valid as any other forms of snobbery. It is a brutal fact of life that, generally speaking, friendship can only exist between individuals of similar rank (intellectually, financially, socially etc. . . ), so why try to defend yourself against people who are never going to be your friends, and yet at the same time talk about your "equals" who are nowhere to be seen, and who do not really stand by you on this thread? Would it not be more appropriate to leave and go about your business somewhere else?

I started this thread to show the writer has the edge over the buyer and I am going to finish what I started. All of the writes I have done are going to expire if not worthless, then very nearly worthless and I am going to keep all the premium. All of this is obvious, it cannot be made more obvious than it is.

Thank you for your suggestion but you are a bit late. I am already doing this. I am already posting elsewhere which is a safe sanctuary among equals in which I am guaranteed of not having to put up with aggression, accusations, insults, disrespect, rudeness and ignorance.

4) you only show partial information, therefore you can only expect partial judgement from anyone looking at this thread. What use is that?

Not exactly, because as I have explained before, this topic is for the few and not for the great majority. The few are the really savvy traders. The great majority are not. Therefore I decided to give everybody the opportunity.

Now it is proven to me by the responses I have recieved here that this is not workable in mainstream exposure.

I therefore revert to only discussing it in very carefully selected exposure, for this reason as I explain above, I opt to discuss it in complete detail, but not here, and in an environment that absolutely guarantees harmony, respect and interchange of ideas with other experts without risk of derailment, interference, without considering other negative aspects to be found in a public forum not strictly policed to ruthlessly weed out mushrooming difficuties.

 

[stoic]

Not exactly, because as I have explained before, this topic is for the few and not for the great majority. The few are the really savvy traders. The great majority are not. Therefore I decided to give everybody the opportunity.

Now it is proven to me by the responses I have recieved here that this is not workable in mainstream exposure.

I therefore revert to only discussing it in very carefully selected exposure, for this reason as I explain above, I opt to discuss it in complete detail, but not here, and in an environment that absolutely guarantees harmony, respect and interchange of ideas with other experts without risk of derailment, interference, without considering other negative aspects to be found in a public forum not strictly policed to ruthlessly weed out mushrooming difficuties.

Sir,

You talk about these people, your "equals" or whatnot. If it pleases you do so, it does not please me for the simple reason that it is neither here nor there. Within the means of this site, it's an unfalsifiable statement. I could not care less. For anyone reading this thread you are just playing mind games and we, quite frankly, have had enough of it.

You have given everybody the opportunity? No, you have not, since you have not answered some of the questions directed to you. Or does the asking of such questions immediately tell you that the person in question is of insufficient ability and merit to entertain such a query?

On the contrary, this thread has not been derailed by us, far from it. It is your actions - or rather inactions - that alone has derailed it. Please do not lay that blame on us, we are NOT responsible for you, since we are NOT you.

If it weren't for the vast majority wanting openess your contribution to this site would be seen as needing to be weeded out. This is what being liberal and open is about. If you want to share, please do. If all you do is want to play mind games, going round in circular arguments, degenerate into pointless disputes, sulk and withold information and use that as an excuse, please go away and post it somewhere else.

As your time on this site and others show, you've painted a picture of yourself as an attention seeker and no more. It does you no credit, and it has embittered a lot of people here. You have provided some very useful information, but alas you've probably gone the wrong way about it. As the maxim goes: the best researchers and not necessarily the best teachers.

 

[SOCRATES]

Sir,

You talk about these people, your "equals" or whatnot. If it pleases you do so, it does not please me for the simple reason that it is neither here nor there. Within the means of this site, it's an unfalsifiable statement. I could not care less. For anyone reading this thread you are just playing mind games and we, quite frankly, have had enough of it.

Yes, you do not understand that you do not understand. You think everyone is equal. I have news for you. Some are more equal than others. The ones who are equal display Merit, Ability and Conduct. Those who are not, display the opposite. They cannot help it. What do you expect should be done ? Do you think any of us are here to run a school teaching manners, instilling principles, or inculcating education ? This is not a classroom. If you cannot keep up then it is your fault and not mine. Probably because you cannot keep up and fail to percieve the significance of the obvious must be the reason you accuse me of playing mind games with you, which is not the case.

You have given everybody the opportunity? No, you have not, since you have not answered some of the questions directed to you. Or does the asking of such questions immediately tell you that the person in question is of insufficient ability and merit to entertain such a query?

No, again. Everything is very clear. But it is up to the reader to grasp it and not for me to go to extreme lengths to grasp it for the reader as I am not the reader.


On the contrary, this thread has not been derailed by us, far from it. It is your actions - or rather inactions - that alone has derailed it. Please do not lay that blame on us, we are NOT responsible for you, since we are NOT you.

That is correct, you are yourselves and not me. That is why you behave the way you do. This is my thread and it is ridiculous to imply I would go about derailing my own thread. I am not obligated to answer every question you ask. I am not. All I am obligated to do is to fulfil the mission. The mission is to show the writer has the edge over the buyer. By now this should be patently obvious to you. It is for you to realise, and for all the reasons why, and not for me to realise it for you.


This thread has been plagued with off topic comment, personal attacks, rudeness, intrusion, irrelevant discussion, and other nonsenses. All this serves to batten down further the release of valuable information. All pleas are disregarded because your own collective and individual conduct is to blame and not me.


If it weren't for the vast majority wanting openess your contribution to this site would be seen as needing to be weeded out. This is what being liberal and open is about. If you want to share, please do. If all you do is want to play mind games, going round in circular arguments, degenerate into pointless disputes, sulk and withold information and use that as an excuse, please go away and post it somewhere else.

Again, you do not understand that you do not understand.This is not an arena for everybody. It is only an arena for the select few, and the sooner you realise this the better. All I am willing to offer you is a glimpse of another world diametrically opposed to what is mainstream.


Because I am responsible and circumpect and prudent, you now accuse me as a result of your own frustration of playing mind games. The whole market is a much more of mind game....it is a mind war for profits and not a game is what you do not understand and are able to grasp.


You are right about me posting somewhere else.


I am already doing this, but entering discussions among equals in a secure venue, in which there is no cause for restraint in the discussion as it is an oasis of peace, respect and discussion among equals in a properly protected and secure environment and a delight.


As your time on this site and others show, you've painted a picture of yourself as an attention seeker and no more. It does you no credit, and it has embittered a lot of people here. You have provided some very useful information, but alas you've probably gone the wrong way about it. As the maxim goes: the best researchers and not necessarily the best teachers.

I am not an attention seeker, but what I post grabs the attention of members and visitors.. Again, you do not understand that you do not understand. I do not go the wrong way about anything. The fact that it serves to infuriate several persistent detractors who are frustrated is of no consequece to me but it is of consequence to you. Detraction to me is like water on a duck's back.


I am not here to teach. This is not a classroom. I am only here to prove my point.

My point is twofold : Writing is exclusively professional whereas buying may or may not be, and that Writers have the ultimate edge over the Buyers, that is all.

 

[stoic]

I am not an attention seeker, but what I post grabs the attention of members and visitors.. Again, you do not understand that you do not understand. I do not go the wrong way about anything. The fact that it serves to infuriate several persistent detractors who are frustrated is of no consequece to me but it is of consequence to you. Detraction to me is like water on a duck's back.


I am not here to teach. This is not a classroom. I am only here to prove my point.

My point is twofold : Writing is exclusively professional whereas buying may or may not be, and that Writers have the ultimate edge over the Buyers, that is all.

I shall reply to you this afternoon. Until then, good day.

 

[Profitaker]

My point is twofold : Writing is exclusively professional whereas buying may or may not be, and that Writers have the ultimate edge over the Buyers, that is all.

And how do you think you've done so far in proving these points, dear Socrates ?

 

[rockseller]

Mr Socrates,

You have lost a bit of credibility on your thread as you only show up during "good times" when things go your way.

 

[charliechan]

barjon,

"warning lists" of disruptees?

I think you have contracted a virulent strain of the cyof-occus virus.

You should consign yourself to bed, take regular temperature checks, and drink plenty of liquids.

(If I am to be added to your list, can I be number 7 please? (deja-vu))

Actually, I am bored with this thread.
Its all smoke and mirrors.

[80% of all options EXPIRE worthless is the assumption]
One moment the trades are closed out way before expiry, because they show profit.
Now, because its losing, we are supposed to wait till expiry.
The trades arent being compared like-to-like.
Any attempt to prove anything has been lost, as there is no baseline (set of pre-determined rules) to test against.
And all this guff about "all is decided in advance" has been shown to be preposterous.

isnt the simplest option for Socco is to just to admit he got it wrong?
there is no harm in admitting this, and he is NOT diminished as a person in any way whatsoever, for doing so.

such a pity.

[best bits have been from duccait and Dashing Blade re: implied/historical volatility]

interestingly enough, i seem to remember a very old post from socrates stating that he was a member of the magic circle or something of the sort.

if i am wrong on this, i am deeply sorry for any offence caused.

 

[SOCRATES]

interestingly enough, i seem to remember a very old post from socrates stating that he was a member of the magic circle or something of the sort.

if i am wrong on this, i am deeply sorry for any offence caused.

There is no offence given and none taken charliechan.

I did state that I did for a time study the performance of the magic arts for entertainment purposes.

And I did go on to explain the difference of performing magic for other fellow magicians, for grown ups and for children and what is different in each performance and why.

I found it very useful in helping me understand crowd psychology, and that is why I did it.

 

[Profitaker]

Socrates

Will you be updating your "fans" this evening with a position / margin report ?

 

[charliechan]

yes, here we go....

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?p=103275&highlight=magic+circle#post103275

anyway, club membership aside, i would still be interested at a professional level why socrates didnt see fit to reduce his margin exposure by creating a straddle by writing calls along side his puts. this would have been done on monday night as all things are known in advance of course - i.e. the extremely low volatility and volume in the days leading up to last tuesdays giggle. at least then he could have put up the margin spared to good use in other markets.

by doing so, socrates would still have kept true to the ethos of the thread by writing options. there are countless of other strategies no doubt a professional would have used to reduce gamma exposure.

for some reason, socrates has chosen not to answer this. thats his prerogative i guess, but something i am sure his professional peers whom he converses with would have suggested.

oh well.

 

[Profitaker]

Charlie

Precisely. Implied Volty was through the roof, skew was massive. If I'd had those positions I'd have bought downside cover and part financed it by shorting OTM calls.

Socrates cannot address or answer your direct questions because he has no knowledge of options, not only that, those short Puts are pure fiction.

Just ask him about the margin he needs to fund those positions. He can't - because he doesn't have those positions. It is so obvious, I'm almost embarrassed for him !