Plain Vanilla Options Trades.

[A Dashing Blade]

Oh...but I am...but you need not worry as you are not included among them... ...and don't forget I am the gatekeeper, just in case you have forgotten... ...in three months or less you and all your chums here will be begging me to open it and let your in...guaranteed....you'll see...and I will refuse to open it...

"in three months or less you and all your chums here will be begging me to open it and let your in...guaranteed" . . . . got £50 in my pocket & I'll give you odds that that won't happen, want to take the bet?

No?

Thought not.

 

[charliechan]

The object of this thread is to prove conclusively the Writer of options has the edge over the Buyer, nothing more and nothing less. except for people who wish to post here first of all to respect the object of the thread and behave properly and additionally to vote.

W those in favour of the writer having the edge over the buyer.

and

B those in favour of the buyer having the edge over the writer.

All else is of no interest to me.

If you all want to talk about is calls and mrgins and futures and whatnot go and post somewhere else, not here, I hope I will not have to tell you again, otherwise I will move this discussion to another website, you all know I mean what I say........ and I say what I mean..... and I do not hesitate to act if I so decide.

Now have a nice weekend.

Thats all.

i will stick my neck out on this one and say .....











b - sometimes (i always like to go against the crowd at emotional peaks - which is what these 30 odd pages seem to be).

there are no absolutes in this business and to say x strategy 'ALWAYS' provides an edge isn't that wise.

i traded short end options at liffe (on the floor) for some time, so i do have a little, if not distant experience of handling fairly complex positions.

i look at it like this:

yes we all know that 80% of options are supposed to expire worthless, so on the face of it, writing would seem the best way to go.

however, we also all know that we are supposed to limit risk and let our profits run. writing limits our profit to the premium we sell for, yet has unlimited down side risk. buying on the other hand limits our risk to the premium paid up, but gives unlimited profit opportunity.

so buying is a bit like trend following from a beginners point of view. there may be many small losses, but a few big baggers. selling is a bit like pickin' pennies in front of a steam-roller. one day youre gunna be road kill.

im sure most of you are already aware of this.

am i saying writing is not the best play? no im not. there is a time and a place for everything. i'm just saying that in the hands of the inexperienced, writing options is a sure way to the poor house.

trying to force people into a binary decision over such an issue covering a variety of scenarios is imho a bit like trying to use the same tool for a variety of different jobs. im sure the experienced among us will have noticed this from the off, and wondered whether this whole idea has only one purpose: to bait. ?

 

[A Dashing Blade]

i will stick my neck out on this one and say .....

b - sometimes (i always like to go against the crowd at emotional peaks - which is what these 30 odd pages seem to be).

there are no absolutes in this business and to say x strategy 'ALWAYS' provides an edge isn't that wise.

i traded short end options at liffe (on the floor) for some time, so i do have a little, if not distant experience of handling fairly complex positions.

i look at it like this:

yes we all know that 80% of options are supposed to expire worthless, so on the face of it, writing would seem the best way to go.

however, we also all know that we are supposed to limit risk and let our profits run. writing limits our profit to the premium we sell for, yet has unlimited down side risk. buying on the other hand limits our risk to the premium paid up, but gives unlimited profit opportunity.

so buying is a bit like trend following from a beginners point of view. there may be many small losses, but a few big baggers. selling is a bit like pickin' pennies in front of a steam-roller. one day youre gunna be road kill.

im sure most of you are already aware of this.

am i saying writing is not the best play? no im not. there is a time and a place for everything. i'm just saying that in the hands of the inexperienced, writing options is a sure way to the poor house.

trying to force people into a binary decision over such an issue covering a variety of scenarios is imho a bit like trying to use the same tool for a variety of different jobs. im sure the experienced among us will have noticed this from the off, and wondered whether this whole idea has only one purpose: to bait. ?

Good post.

 

[SOCRATES]

I am not interesed in chit chat and gossip.

We, the members of the Elite Club 3.4S, have spent the afternoon here number crunching.

Here is next week's news:~

On Monday morning, at the opening of the market I will place trade Number 10 and Trade Number 11.

10.Writing 3 FTSE 100 INDEX Mar 6125 Puts @ 70 or better...

11. Writing 3 FTSE 100 INDEX Mar 6175 Puts @ 90 or better...

The buyer or buyers of these puts will find they will expire worhtless or nearly worthless, entitling me to keep if not all the premium then nearly all of the premium.

Nearly all of you in here are wrong.

The Writer has the edge over the Buyer.

I am doing this publicly to prove to you all of you are wrong and I am right, consistently right, so there.

Those of you who have still not voted, please let us have your votes. Fence sitting is not allowed.

Bulldozer says only Monkeys sit on fences, serious traders commit one way or another.

He is eager to bet any member Profitaker has never posted one single winning trade during the period of his membership here. He bets you £100 if you can find a post (unaltered of course) in which he posts a winning trade in public. I have decided to match his wager equally. All proceeds go to charity.

All members start looking. Anyone finding any gets £200 per legitemate find of an unaltered post up to this minute.

The same applies to The Dashing Blade.

That for the moment, is the end of next week's news today.

Thank you.

 

[Splitlink]

On Monday morning, at the opening of the market I will place trade Number 8 and Trade Number 9.

8.Writing 6 FTSE 100 INDEX Mar 6125 Puts @ 70 or better...

9. Writing 6 FTSE 100 INDEX Mar 6175 Puts @ 90 or better...

The buyer or buyers of these puts will find they will expire worhtless or nearly worthless, entitling me to keep if not all the premium then nearly all of the premium.

.

Not interested in chitchat? The only relevant piece of your post is the above noted. As I said, any fool can get into an option trade, provided he has the margin. You may, well, win this time and I think that your chances are good. However, I prefer not to have you as a friend and watch your antics with morbid curiosity. Much like a monkey on a tightrope Oh, I forgot! You are no monkey.

 

[new_trader]

New Trader,

Criticise when you are qualified.

Grant.

This is a very typical response made in this forum, ”You aren’t a qualified trader so your opinions are invalid”. But let me ask you this, why do I need to be a qualified options trader to recognise flaws in logic?

Let me give you an example. I assert that E=MC^2 but I am not a qualified physicist and yet the greatest majority of scientists around the world would agree with me on this. Would you care to argue?

Did you know that force of acceleration is indistinguishable from the force of gravity? Care to argue?

Now, if someone posted evidence that I was quoting Albert Einstein would it make my above assertions invalid?

Now, lets take Profitakers accusation that Socrates is copying the trades of someone else. What difference can that possibly make to Socrates’ assertion that writers of options have the edge, which is what this thread is about?

If Profitaker cared to read what Socrates writes he would learn that Socrates has repeatedly stated that traders with an edge would generally arrive at the same conclusions. It is no great revelation then that two traders would actually end up placing exactly the same trade is it? Even if Socrates wasn’t placing his own trade he is still putting his reputation on the line by endorsing another trader to prove his point that “writers have the edge”.

Do you follow?

As for who is acting like a 10 year old child, I’m not the one with his fingers in is ears screaming “LALALALA I’m not listening, LALALALA”.

I say that Profitaker is a hypocrite because even though he claims to ignore Socrates he is still able to comment on what he writes. This is because he reads the posts of people that include quotes from posts made by him.

To quote Albert Einstein, “When you have one contradiction nothing can be believed”. This is why I don’t need to be a qualified options trader to recognise that Profitaker has posted nothing useful.

Understand?

 

[A Dashing Blade]

"in three months or less you and all your chums here will be begging me to open it and let your in...guaranteed" . . . . got £50 in my pocket & I'll give you odds that that won't happen, want to take the bet?

No?

Thought not.

So that's a still a no then Socrates?

 

[A Dashing Blade]

This is a very typical response made in this forum, ”You aren’t a qualified trader so your opinions are invalid”. . . .

Not sure that anyone takes that view new_trader, we're just asking simple questions (caertainly simple to any "master" trader at any rate) with regard to margin requirements, greeks etc . . .

But hang on, Socrates thinks that's all rubbish vis. . .

. . . .
I am not interested in discussing greeks, or volatility, or fundamentals, or margin, or brokerage, or the underlying, or intrinsic value, or decay, or any other stuff.

I am not interested in discussing any of that. I am not.
. . .
If you all want to talk about is calls and mrgins and futures and whatnot go and post somewhere else, not here, I hope I will not have to tell you again, otherwise I will move this discussion to another website, you all know I mean what I say........ and I say what I mean..... and I do not hesitate to act if I so decide.

If Profitaker cared to read what Socrates writes he would learn that Socrates has repeatedly stated that traders with an edge would generally arrive at the same conclusions.

Would new_trader care to explain where Socrates and his acolytes have provided any rationale for this assertion?

 

[SOCRATES]

Ok...to recap:~

The following were written this week:~

A = 5 x 6025 June Puts @129.5 closed @ 107 = (Banked £1125 less costs)

B = 5 X 6025 June Puts @ 132 closes @ 122 = (Banked £500 less costs)

C = 5 X 5975 Mar Puts @ 57 still open

D = 2 X 5925 Apr Puts @ 76 still open

E = not written owing to market conditions not being right.
CYOF's trade posted instead
= total of 6 Feb 6125 Puts written @ 53.5 MAP, closed at 32.5 = ( Banked £1950 less costs)

6 = 9 X 5925 Apr Puts @ 44.5 still open

7 = 9 X 5925 Apr Puts @ 49.5 still open

8 = 3 X 5925 Apr Puts @ 65 still open

9 = 3 5925 Apr Puts @ 65 still open



And tomorrow at the opening of the market:~

Trades 10 and 11 as expected.

 

[SOCRATES]

Not sure that anyone takes that view new_trader, we're just asking simple questions (caertainly simple to any "master" trader at any rate) with regard to margin requirements, greeks etc . . .

But hang on, Socrates thinks that's all rubbish vis. . .


Would new_trader care to explain where Socrates and his acolytes have provided any rationale for this assertion?

Nothing of what you are bombarding New Trader with is relevant. None of it, in fact, strictly speaking, it is OFF TOPIC, but you persist with the same hobby horse all the time.

All this stuff about greeks etc., you can get from books although I recommend you put an ice pack on your head while you are at it and have plenty of analgesic tablets handy too.:cheesy:

The rest of it you can ask your broker or as so many of you already see yourselves so very knowlegeable but in reality knowing nothing or very little, therefore, as a last resort, you can ask yourselves or work it out with calculators.

I have told you before and I am telling you again.

I am not interested in discussing any of this with any of you, and it does not matter who it is.

I am not doing it ...period.

The object of this thread is to conclusively prove the Writer has the edge over the Buyer, that is all.

Thank you.

 

[new_trader]

Not sure that anyone takes that view new_trader, we're just asking simple questions (caertainly simple to any "master" trader at any rate) with regard to margin requirements, greeks etc . . .

But hang on, Socrates thinks that's all rubbish vis. . .


Would new_trader care to explain where Socrates and his acolytes have provided any rationale for this assertion?

That is irrelevant. What is relevant to notice is that Socrates is the only one in this thread behaving like a trader. The anti-Socrates brigade are behaving like analysts and that in itself speaks volumes. I suppose it would be a good idea that from now on, anyone who has something to spost must comply with duty of disclosure.


I have placed no options trade.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

That is irrelevant. What is relevant to notice is that Socrates is the only one in this thread behaving like a trader. The anti-Socrates brigade are behaving like analysts and that in itself speaks volumes. I suppose it would be a good idea that from now on, anyone who has something to spost must comply with duty of disclosure.


I have placed no options trade.

I asked you "Would new_trader care to explain where Socrates and his acolytes have provided any rationale for this assertion?"

You have failed to do so.

I would regard failure to do so within . . . . oh . . . . 24 hours (lets say Monday morning to give you more than enough time) as tacit admission that no such rationale exists.

Fair enough?

 

[SOCRATES]

I asked you "Would new_trader care to explain where Socrates and his acolytes have provided any rationale for this assertion?"

You have failed to do so.

Listen Dashing Blade, I am beginning to get annoyed with you.

When something obvious is laid in front of you it is obvious,...... it is screaming at you, just like Pod G says, it is screaming at you....do you understand ?

It cannot be more obvious than it is, whether you persist to embroider with unnecessary or irrelevant or irrational or inconsistent commentary or not.

The Writer has the edge over the Buyer, if it takes 100 trades right in a row to prove it, I will.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

I asked you "Would new_trader care to explain where Socrates and his acolytes have provided any rationale for this assertion?"

You have failed to do so.

I would regard failure to do so within . . . . oh . . . . 24 hours (lets say Monday morning to give you more than enough time) as tacit admission that no such rationale exists.

Fair enough?

You're still not providing a rationale Socrates, I know it, you know it and the rest of the forum know it.

Let's keep it to words of two sylables or less ok?

1) Define "Edge"
2) Explain why you thing the writer has one.

Not difficult, not a trick question, just something you should have answered a long long time ago.

 

[new_trader]

I asked you "Would new_trader care to explain where Socrates and his acolytes have provided any rationale for this assertion?"

You have failed to do so.

I would regard failure to do so within . . . . oh . . . . 24 hours (lets say Monday morning to give you more than enough time) as tacit admission that no such rationale exists.

Fair enough?

To quote Socrates: "The object of this thread is to conclusively prove the Writer has the edge over the Buyer, that is all."

Let me highlight one important part, THAT - IS - ALL


In 24hrs time you can draw any conclusion you want. I said I don't understand anything about options but I completely understand Socrates' opinion and his logic.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

To quote Socrates: "The object of this thread is to conclusively prove the Writer has the edge over the Buyer, that is all."

Let me highlight one important part, THAT - IS - ALL


In 24hrs time you can draw any conclusion you want. I said I don't understand anything about options but I completely understand Socrates' opinion and his logic.

Still failing to do so new_trader, c'mon, this is a 40 page post, don't you think that somewhere, buried in all the dross would be a rationale?

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Oops, missed hat one . . .

. . . What is relevant to notice is that Socrates is the only one in this thread behaving like a trader . . . .

Ahhh, unaware of his risk, unaware of how the instruments he's "trading" are priced by the market (ie to the future NOT the cash) and unaware of what's going on in the market (eg failure to spot the 1000 calls traded).

 

[zupcon]

To quote Socrates: "The object of this thread is to conclusively prove the Writer has the edge over the Buyer, that is all."

Let me highlight one important part, THAT - IS - ALL

In 24hrs time you can draw any conclusion you want. I said I don't understand anything about options but I completely understand Socrates' opinion and his logic.

If the method by which Socrates is going about proving the writer has the edge is fundamentally flawed, he'll never be able to conclusively prove this to be the case, and this is the root cause of the problem that needs to be addressed.

I believe that Socrates has previously promised to address this point when he has adequate time to do so.

regards
zu

 

[SOCRATES]

You're still not providing a rationale Socrates, I know it, you know it and the rest of the forum know it.

Let's keep it to words of two sylables or less ok?

1) Define "Edge"
2) Explain why you thing the writer has one.

Not difficult, not a trick question, just something you should have answered a long long time ago.

1. Knowledge, expertise, experience, judgement, tactics, methodology, patience, impartiality, titanium nerve, instantaneous conditional reflex, intuition...and a hefty treasure chest...and a mark one eyeball...and the right mindset.....and the right character and the correct conduct....and merit...and sheer ability...including lightning fast mental arithmetic and visual mathematics...just for starters...

2. I have already explained it earlier in the thread. Please don't ask again. Read everything from the beginning again if you have to.

Thanks.

 

[zupcon]

Yove defined "edge" as

1. Knowledge, expertise, experience, judgement, tactics, methodology, patience, impartiality, titanium nerve, instantaneous conditional reflex, intuition...and a hefty treasure chest...and a mark one eyeball...and the right mindset.....and the right character and the correct conduct....and merit...and sheer ability...including lightning fast mental arithmetic and visual mathematics...just for starters...

And do all of the above suddenly evaporate if you chose to buy rather than write ?