I think ODL traded naked options from the start. As Mr Blade said they started to get more cautious. I know they used too narrow my starngles and role over losing positons into bigger postions hence 35 lots. Then i was getting margin calls of £55,000 plus which i could never afford, they would then have to trim my positions.
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christov84
Newbie
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hey guys,
I have always tried to let my options ride as long as possible but the other night i kinda got stung. I was at 87% up then dropped to 67% and looking at the trend it should have regained however it didnt. its now at 18% up so i have decided to sell.
just wondering what peoples oppion is on how long you should hold a option for as they tend to get riskier the longer you hold them?
I have always tried to let my options ride as long as possible but the other night i kinda got stung. I was at 87% up then dropped to 67% and looking at the trend it should have regained however it didnt. its now at 18% up so i have decided to sell.
just wondering what peoples oppion is on how long you should hold a option for as they tend to get riskier the longer you hold them?
Ivan Gekko
Junior member
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ODL Securities Limited, To be approached with caution.
I have also had issues with ODL Securities London. I opened an advisory account under Options and Equities. After three months of trading i was down 50%, most of that was down to commissions and charges.
Frank Freeman and his colleague Mark Knight at ODL advisory options desk will only want your money and don't give a care if lose.
The above brokers work as half-commission men.
As Mr Davidson said in his book, How to win as a stock market speculator....."The worst offenders are sometimes called half-commission men, so-called because they split commissions earned on stock deals, perhaps 50:50 basis with their firm through which they put business. If they don not sell shares, they don't eat and desperation can lead to poor recommendations, sales pressure and general corruption. I know city firms where this happens every day."
Please read the following by Alexander Davidson.
Advisory Brokers.
The dodgy brokers trade as often as possible, regardless of whether it is in your interest. They may try to persuade you to sell one stock to reinvest the proceeds in another. If a broker can manipulate you into suggesting the move yourself, he or she cannot so easily be accused of churning, which is excessive dealing to generate commission, a practice forbidden under the rules of the Financial Services Authority.
The sharp operators will hint – without stating for certain – that a stock is expected to rise enormously in the near future. This way, they will in practice be covered if the client later complains. Do not allow yourself to be misled by their practised techniques.
Do not rely on the regulators to protect you against dubious stockbrokers. Some sharp operators slip through the net. Some operate from offices in secret locations abroad, using a telephone switching office to handle customer calls. Such bucket shops use the Internet combined with telesales to sucker investors into buying dud shares. The pretext is often the IPO of a young high-tech company. Once the broker has your money, it no longer wants to know. Visit the web site for McWhortle Enterprises (McWhortle Enterprises, Inc.) as a nerve-wracking but absolutely safe lesson in what I am saying.
I have also had issues with ODL Securities London. I opened an advisory account under Options and Equities. After three months of trading i was down 50%, most of that was down to commissions and charges.
Frank Freeman and his colleague Mark Knight at ODL advisory options desk will only want your money and don't give a care if lose.
The above brokers work as half-commission men.
As Mr Davidson said in his book, How to win as a stock market speculator....."The worst offenders are sometimes called half-commission men, so-called because they split commissions earned on stock deals, perhaps 50:50 basis with their firm through which they put business. If they don not sell shares, they don't eat and desperation can lead to poor recommendations, sales pressure and general corruption. I know city firms where this happens every day."
Please read the following by Alexander Davidson.
Advisory Brokers.
The dodgy brokers trade as often as possible, regardless of whether it is in your interest. They may try to persuade you to sell one stock to reinvest the proceeds in another. If a broker can manipulate you into suggesting the move yourself, he or she cannot so easily be accused of churning, which is excessive dealing to generate commission, a practice forbidden under the rules of the Financial Services Authority.
The sharp operators will hint – without stating for certain – that a stock is expected to rise enormously in the near future. This way, they will in practice be covered if the client later complains. Do not allow yourself to be misled by their practised techniques.
Do not rely on the regulators to protect you against dubious stockbrokers. Some sharp operators slip through the net. Some operate from offices in secret locations abroad, using a telephone switching office to handle customer calls. Such bucket shops use the Internet combined with telesales to sucker investors into buying dud shares. The pretext is often the IPO of a young high-tech company. Once the broker has your money, it no longer wants to know. Visit the web site for McWhortle Enterprises (McWhortle Enterprises, Inc.) as a nerve-wracking but absolutely safe lesson in what I am saying.
Advisory Brokers.
The dodgy brokers trade as often as possible, regardless of whether it is in your interest. They may try to persuade you to sell one stock to reinvest the proceeds in another. If a broker can manipulate you into suggesting the move yourself, he or she cannot so easily be accused of churning, which is excessive dealing to generate commission, a practice forbidden under the rules of the Financial Services Authority.
This is wrong. An advisory account can still be churned illegally.It makes no difference whether the client agrees to it or not, in fact with an advisory account the client has to agree to the trades. If it is churning, it's churning.
fantastic4
Active member
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Hey Tar
888options.com is a great site, it's the options clearing council's web page.
888options.com is a great site, it's the options clearing council's web page.
Ivan Gekko
Junior member
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Hello raysor,
Thanks for your reply, i infact pasted and copied the above from a book by Alexander Davidson. Does this mean that i may have a case against ODL? I had a Advisory account, which was the same broker a loui10 above. I have heard that with an advisory account it is hard to prove that your account has been churned as you have given the go ahead (yes) to there advice.
Regards
Ivan
Thanks for your reply, i infact pasted and copied the above from a book by Alexander Davidson. Does this mean that i may have a case against ODL? I had a Advisory account, which was the same broker a loui10 above. I have heard that with an advisory account it is hard to prove that your account has been churned as you have given the go ahead (yes) to there advice.
Regards
Ivan
Churning is churning! The onus is usually on the broker to disprove it.You would normally look at the commission and see how it compares to the profit/loss.Hello raysor,
Thanks for your reply, i infact pasted and copied the above from a book by Alexander Davidson. Does this mean that i may have a case against ODL? I had a Advisory account, which was the same broker a loui10 above. I have heard that with an advisory account it is hard to prove that your account has been churned as you have given the go ahead (yes) to there advice.
Regards
Ivan
Did you complete an application form? This usually states your investment timescale (short,med or long). Brokers always require a derivative risk warning to be signed if trading in options.
Ivan Gekko
Junior member
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Thanks once more raysor,
I do not claim to be an expert in this area, so your advice is very welcome. Yes, i did sign a derivatives risk warning on the basis that trading strategies would be low risk. I was also advised to tick for specualtion as an Investment Objective as it meant short term investments. However, going through the application form i was not asked about my risk tolerance (low, medium or high) or investment timescale.
Do you think i may have a case against ODL?
I do not claim to be an expert in this area, so your advice is very welcome. Yes, i did sign a derivatives risk warning on the basis that trading strategies would be low risk. I was also advised to tick for specualtion as an Investment Objective as it meant short term investments. However, going through the application form i was not asked about my risk tolerance (low, medium or high) or investment timescale.
Do you think i may have a case against ODL?
The problem is derivatives are HIGH risk, that's why you sign the derivative risk warning. You would NORMALLY be expected to have experience in derivatives (bit of a catch 22!)Thanks once more raysor,
I do not claim to be an expert in this area, so your advice is very welcome. Yes, i did sign a derivatives risk warning on the basis that trading strategies would be low risk. I was also advised to tick for specualtion as an Investment Objective as it meant short term investments. However, going through the application form i was not asked about my risk tolerance (low, medium or high) or investment timescale.
Do you think i may have a case against ODL?
You shouldn't have been "advised" to tick anything!
Most firms base the risk as LOW: Gilts, FTSE100 or equivalent overseas market, MEDIUM: All other fully listed,HIGH: AIM etc.
Time scale is a bit difficult, because I maintain it is variable. But if you were investing for income for retirement you would expect the timescale to be long (1 year plus at least) and no short term trading.
The best way forward is to make a specific complaint (state exactly what you are complaining about) and see what they answer. I think you must be "fair" with the broker as things always look different after the events than at the time. If you are not happy with the answer then you can always take it further.