One year officialy day trading

[kwickwool]

All anyone ever wants is to be exposed to the real market and confidence that whatever is going on is purely the market doing it and not manipulation by the company you use to trade through.

A company such as a SB whose business model is based ultimately around its clients losing will always have a conflict of interest with winners who continually take cash out of their pockets as they are taking the otherside of the trade, or at best balancing or hedging it but they would never achieve that 100% of the time therefore are losing money with constant winners.

Compared with a DMA broker whose business model is based around not taking the other side of the transaction but only profiting from commission based on the amount you trade. Their whole platform and perspective is about you trading and making money and being as good as you can.

A SB does ultimately have a conflict of interest.

Just thinking about these facts why would anyone after they get their feet wet stay around a SB if they indeed are trading fulltime, no one. simples.

 

[new_trader]

I dont have DMA, and I will try this as a comparison thanks.
Im also not saying I could be profitable were it not for SB. My success, and failure lies in my hands, in the strategy that I am executing. There is no element of blame I am putting on anybody other than myself were I profitable or not.

Make sure it is a true DMA account with a Futures broker and not a CFD "DMA" account.

 

[kwickwool]

I dont have DMA, and I will try this as a comparison thanks.
Im also not saying I could be profitable were it not for SB. My success, and failure lies in my hands, in the strategy that I am executing. There is no element of blame I am putting on anybody other than myself were I profitable or not.

Geez.......you have been trading all this time and still with a SB, sorry buddy but that is ridiculous, sort yourself out.

 

[malaguti]

Geez.......you have been trading all this time and still with a SB, sorry buddy but that is ridiculous, sort yourself out.

tax free and no charges every time I trade..surely its a lifestyle choice
And thanks again New trader..Kwickwool you've already pointed me in a direction earlier of IB. I'm looking into them

 

[justtrader]

Geez.......you have been trading all this time and still with a SB, sorry buddy but that is ridiculous, sort yourself out.

Nothing wrong with using a SB for any length of time,I've been using IGINdex for 14 years now,Mind you I am not a big trader.
But do agree trading anything over 1 lot should be done via DMA.

Also, SB's cannot skew their own books more than a couple of points, as this creates opportunities for arbitrage.

 

[kwickwool]

Buddy, let me give you an analagy to sum this up.

Its a bit like saying that you are a professional rower, someone asks you where you do your training and you say the local hotel gym. If ultimately you are looking to be a professional you have to get out on the water and train professionally.

This is the same thing. If you are trading full time, and you are consistantly making money, you ultimately need to make that step at some stage to the professional stage, and if you are trading fulltime now for a year am surprised you have not already, but good luck to you.

 

[kwickwool]

Nothing wrong with using a SB for any length of time,I've been using IGINdex for 14 years now,Mind you I am not a big trader.
But do agree trading anything over 1 lot should be done via DMA.

Also, SB's cannot skew their own books more than a couple of points, as this creates opportunities for arbitrage.

If you count yourself a fulltime trader there is everything wrong with using a SB, if you only trade small amounts like yourself and is mor eof a hobby than anything then yes a SB fits that demographic, but not a fulltime professional trader, simples.

And they do skew their own data which is why they state their data is indicative only, it is their legal get out clause for any difference between their data and the real market.

 

[kwickwool]

this SB v DMA seems to be an old debate and keeps coming up every now and then

there are several traders here and elsewhere who claim to be full time for years and still SBing (apparently successfully)....whereas there are several others who claim that SB is fools game....

so doesnt look like this debate will come to close in this thread

There is no debate, it is a bit like debating wether water is wet or not.

Simon, MD for capital spreads and one of the biggest and best SB's in the UK stated that the most a winning client has taken from capital spreads is £140,000. I am not demeaning that amount but that statement says everything. A professional trader who claims to be using SB's for years is not a professional trader, there is no debate, simples.

 

[new_trader]

this SB v DMA seems to be an old debate and keeps coming up every now and then

there are several traders here and elsewhere who claim to be full time for years and still SBing (apparently successfully)....whereas there are several others who claim that SB is fools game....

so doesnt look like this debate will come to close in this thread

Agreed. A trader must be determined enough to find out for themselves. Very few are, most will be satisfied by someone else telling them they don't need to try DMA. Of course there are those that can't afford to open a DMA account, they don't have a choice.

 

[justtrader]

There is no debate, it is a bit like debating wether water is wet or not.

Simon, MD for capital spreads and one of the biggest and best SB's in the UK stated that the most a winning client has taken from capital spreads is £140,000. I am not demeaning that amount but that statement says everything. A professional trader who claims to be using SB's for years is not a professional trader, there is no debate, simples.

The question is quantifying what a professional trader is ?
Is it how much a trader makes ?
It cannot be someone who simply trades full time as there are a lot of traders,who like myself do, but do not necessarily make much, I do not depend 100% on trading for my income , but its a nice bonus.
A lot of what kwickwool makes sense applied on a personal level.

 

[Lee Shepherd]

questions
- is that £140k for their entire trading career or in a year? If for the entire career then there seems to be some misunderstanding. We need to ask Simon again to clarify that.
- I dont deny what you say. However, logically no one has come up with rational reasons why people cannot make money in SB. There have been analogies and similes. But no rational reason.

e.g. if one sold dow at 13300 at £10 per point and took similar trade on DMA. And lets say dow is at 13000.

What are the ways in which a SB can deny that profit to the punter.

If one is scalping then I agree it is a different matter.

I am not saying these things to challenge but to learn. So please go easy.

Happy Christmas Samirs and all,

There is little difference other than a few points here and there and of course 'out of hours' quotes - that's the most point of interest as it allows the SB to make whatever reasonable price they feel fit with little fear of arbitrage. Even still, they have to be sensible as futures traders and pairs traders will take advantage, using SB's and DMA

This argument has been going on since the word dot and will continue for ever more. I unfortunately have done this discussion to my death.

People have to understand that some will prefer DMA and some will prefer SB, there's no need for anyone to get on their high horse about someones preference. Scalping (trades within minutes) is generally a no for SB as they cannot hedge their books if needed. DMA is fine with this. Also scalping on SB will kill most on spreads as comms are ridiculously high compared to profit percentage. 1 pt spread on a 5pt gain equals 20% commission.

Longer term trades would be fine and by making many several points the odd point discrepancy against the underlying should not make any difference to your profit line, after all you are initially avoiding between 20 and 50% tax to start with - of course this only comes in to effect should one be able to make it in the first place - DMA or not.

Lee Shepherd

 

[kwickwool]

questions
- is that £140k for their entire trading career or in a year? If for the entire career then there seems to be some misunderstanding. We need to ask Simon again to clarify that.
- I dont deny what you say. However, logically no one has come up with rational reasons why people cannot make money in SB. There have been analogies and similes. But no rational reason.

e.g. if one sold dow at 13300 at £10 per point and took similar trade on DMA. And lets say dow is at 13000.

What are the ways in which a SB can deny that profit to the punter.

If one is scalping then I agree it is a different matter.

I am not saying these things to challenge but to learn. So please go easy.

SB's have a market and certain demographic, for your example as a one off trade probably no difference to DMA But a regular winning trader there will be issues which we all know about.

Simon stated the £140k was the most from one account, therefore the most any client had ever taken from capital spreads, and for all the right reasons mentioned no surprise to this at all.

A professional athlete would not buy cheap trainers or use a hotel gym for the bulk of his training and it is the same here, there is quite simply no debate, all the best tools are required and SB are the hotel gym in professional trading world

 

[new_trader]

- I dont deny what you say. However, logically no one has come up with rational reasons why people cannot make money in SB. There have been analogies and similes. But no rational reason.

I have never said that people can't make money SB. I have said that almost all the people who ONLY SB (especially newbies) attribute their losses to the shenanigans of dastardly SB companies rather than the market itself, without any real reference to compare it with. Most of the times these individuals are either trying to scalp, or trade ‘spikes’ or trade news announcements. It is difficult getting money out of the tightfisted market even with the best tools available.

 

[x4x]

Please refer to the post below. You need to update yourself. As a professional trader it is better to know the latest situation.

Brilliant quote - a lot of traders have an elitist attitude and can't bring themselves to use an SB company.

Trading is just basic logic, it doesn't take much brain power, just enough to do some very basic maths. That logic should be applied to everything including whether you can make consistent profits using a SB company - you can, and those that say it's impossible should explain exactly why it's impossible, not just keep drolling on about it being unprofessional - who cares.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Brilliant quote - a lot of traders have an elitist attitude and can't bring themselves to use an SB company.

Well bucketshops have a problem with professionals.

and those that say it's impossible should explain exactly why it's impossible

Cos the guy on the other side of your bet is a bigger fish than you. They eat you up and chew you to pieces. People who say they can beat the house should put up statements, or call out bets.

 

[x4x]

Well bucketshops have a problem with professionals.

Cos the guy on the other side of your bet is a bigger fish than you. They eat you up and chew you to pieces. People who say they can beat the house should put up statements, or call out bets.

I trade full time with my wife, and have no other income, but don't consider myself a professional because I'm self taught and have no qualifications.

When you trade, you are going against the market (not some guy) which is obviously huge - that's why you want to get your direction, money management, concentration, psychology and understanding of market condition right.

No point anyone ever posting a statement on here unless they've got something to prove - I take trading seriously and have only my self to satisfy.

.....and you still haven't actually explained exactly what's wrong with SB companies - and I doubt anyone can.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

Would anyone else here like to confirm bucketshops have problem with professionals. It wasn't that long ago when a 'professional' got his money confiscated by the bucketshop. Some of you must have been in there for the fun, no ?

 

[BeginnerJoe]

When you trade, you are going against the market

You are betting with the bucketshop. The market is not necessarily involved. If you are a consistent looser, then the market needn't play a role at all.

If you only have yourself to impress, then why are you here telling us, I imagine, winning left, right, and center from the bucketshop ? Are you trying to impress us ?

 

[mike.]

Wonder if Ladbrokes or william hill gets the same slating as the SB firms, jeeez,

its not rocket science,

pick a instrument,

place a stake on whether it will go up or down,

no need to give a time/date when you will execute,

you may be in for a few seconds or a few months,

The SB has to take your bet even though they might agree with you the direction that your instrument will go and fully know they are going to loose,

yet it is them that get the hard time,

 

[BeginnerJoe]

The SB has to take your bet even though they might agree with you the direction that your instrument will go and fully know they are going to loose,

Perhaps you should demonstrate how to make the bucketshop loose. Others here are too modest to do that due to their excessive bucketshop beating skillz.