I've used Omnitrader 2004 for almost a year now. It's a great product with large library of indicators and trading systems and I use it primarily to identify good trading candidates which it does very well. Some people put too much emphasis on blindly following the trading signals it generates, and tend to put the system down when the results don't pan out. However if you use it a a prospecting tool you will get better results.
Hope this helps
Hope this helps
BramleyMan
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I have just orderd the 2005 upgrade. Run a couple of scans a day which I have set up myself and it usually throws up some ideas, but can be a little early.
The trick (IMHO) is to adapt the profiles to the UK market. Therehas been criticism that it does not work, the posts do not indicate what profiles he (or she) has used.
As mojazz says, its a data mining tool and you must tell it what to look for then it will find it. It is not a majic box that is 100% perfect.
PS, I have found Chris at signal traders very helpful in giving profiles to customes as freebies.
No I am not aassociated with them.
As mojazz says, its a data mining tool and you must tell it what to look for then it will find it. It is not a majic box that is 100% perfect.
PS, I have found Chris at signal traders very helpful in giving profiles to customes as freebies.
No I am not aassociated with them.
Gators8385
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OmniTrader is a waste of money!!!!!!!
I'm a professional trader and I own Omnitrader 2005 Real Time edition. It is a piece of crap! The signals are never right. I have not made one penny with OT in the last 3 years!
Learn Technical Analysis and learn to trade. OT is a waste of money!
maxout said:
I'm a professional trader and I own Omnitrader 2005 Real Time edition. It is a piece of crap! The signals are never right. I have not made one penny with OT in the last 3 years!
Learn Technical Analysis and learn to trade. OT is a waste of money!
commanderco
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Gators8385 said:
Well that sums up the question in a nutshell
Gators8385
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The only inexperience I am subjecting anyone to is the inexperience of making any money with OT.
I have a degree in finance and worked for a fortune 100 company for 5 years out of college as a financial analyst.
I've done extensive studies with OT. I tracked OT trades for 3 years. I have bought all the plug-ins and I have compared the Pring KST, Volume, GMMA, Darvis and, the brand new, iTLB plug-ins. I have printed the daily and weekly charts, put them in binders, and, in my analysis, gone back months to years to analyze draw-downs associated with the less-than accurate signals generated by OT.
My experience is that if you trade with OT, be prepared for huge draw-downs followed by very large losses.
I, obviously, am not the only person that has recognized that this product is worthless. Look for used OT's for sale, they sell for anywhere from under one dollar to just having to pay for shipping costs!
I have a degree in finance and worked for a fortune 100 company for 5 years out of college as a financial analyst.
I've done extensive studies with OT. I tracked OT trades for 3 years. I have bought all the plug-ins and I have compared the Pring KST, Volume, GMMA, Darvis and, the brand new, iTLB plug-ins. I have printed the daily and weekly charts, put them in binders, and, in my analysis, gone back months to years to analyze draw-downs associated with the less-than accurate signals generated by OT.
My experience is that if you trade with OT, be prepared for huge draw-downs followed by very large losses.
I, obviously, am not the only person that has recognized that this product is worthless. Look for used OT's for sale, they sell for anywhere from under one dollar to just having to pay for shipping costs!
Well Well Gators8385, what has Omni done to you?
I could respect your opinion if there were not glaring contradictions in your post (which incidentally is also repeated on another thread).
For those who do not know what OT is they will not realise your contradictions so I will explain.
First the most important:
You state that OT is never right and then go on to say "Learn technical analysis". What is OT?
A tool that is as complex or simple as you want. To state that OT is crap is to state that tech analysis is crap.
OT is a data mining tool. You set up what you want and OT will find stocks that match that criteria. For example, some people want to analyse stocks where the 20 & 40 day moving average has crossed. Set that up in OT and it will list all stocks meeting that criteria. The more criteria you add, logically the less stocks will be returned.
If someone learns tech analysis how is he to find stocks that match his systems, trawl through thousands of charts every day? Of course not, he (sorry ladies, you are not excluded) needs a tool to enter his criteria and find those stocks that match the criteria.
That is all OT does, find stocks that meet any given criteria and also backtests those criteria.
You go on to say that you have used OT for 3 years and bought all the add ons, why? If something was such crap why did you pay for at least 2 upgrades and all those addons? I personally would not keep throwing money after something that did not work.
Did it never occur to you to call tech support and say simply "hey guys, this is not working". They almost certainly would have tried to guide you. Failing that why did you not ask for your money back?
Finally, you state that there are many dissatisfied OT users citing the number of copies for sale at ridiculous prices. On ebay there is 1, 2004 version at $150, there are a few on this site but all are pre 2005 versions, clearly people who have upgraded. BTW there are also an equivalent number of Metastock packages available!
Finally, as I have stated on these boards, I use OT end of day with profiles created by Signal Trades specifically for the UK market. It works for me. Why. Because I look carefully at the signals and use judgement prior to trading.
That is where we agree, to trade you need to know technical analysis. OT is not an black box, push the button and make money tool. Sadly that product is not yet available from anyone. We all need to apply judgement whatever tools we use to trade.
I could respect your opinion if there were not glaring contradictions in your post (which incidentally is also repeated on another thread).
For those who do not know what OT is they will not realise your contradictions so I will explain.
First the most important:
You state that OT is never right and then go on to say "Learn technical analysis". What is OT?
A tool that is as complex or simple as you want. To state that OT is crap is to state that tech analysis is crap.
OT is a data mining tool. You set up what you want and OT will find stocks that match that criteria. For example, some people want to analyse stocks where the 20 & 40 day moving average has crossed. Set that up in OT and it will list all stocks meeting that criteria. The more criteria you add, logically the less stocks will be returned.
If someone learns tech analysis how is he to find stocks that match his systems, trawl through thousands of charts every day? Of course not, he (sorry ladies, you are not excluded) needs a tool to enter his criteria and find those stocks that match the criteria.
That is all OT does, find stocks that meet any given criteria and also backtests those criteria.
You go on to say that you have used OT for 3 years and bought all the add ons, why? If something was such crap why did you pay for at least 2 upgrades and all those addons? I personally would not keep throwing money after something that did not work.
Did it never occur to you to call tech support and say simply "hey guys, this is not working". They almost certainly would have tried to guide you. Failing that why did you not ask for your money back?
Finally, you state that there are many dissatisfied OT users citing the number of copies for sale at ridiculous prices. On ebay there is 1, 2004 version at $150, there are a few on this site but all are pre 2005 versions, clearly people who have upgraded. BTW there are also an equivalent number of Metastock packages available!
Finally, as I have stated on these boards, I use OT end of day with profiles created by Signal Trades specifically for the UK market. It works for me. Why. Because I look carefully at the signals and use judgement prior to trading.
That is where we agree, to trade you need to know technical analysis. OT is not an black box, push the button and make money tool. Sadly that product is not yet available from anyone. We all need to apply judgement whatever tools we use to trade.
Gators8385
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Buy TC2000 by Telnet, the software is free and it costs $30 per month for the data to run any scan you want on all the stocks, funds, sectors and indexes.
The reason I bought OT and the reason I have bought so many of their add-ons is for the engine and for the intraday candlestick recognition capability. I have a black box system that I have designed. Currently my swing system, my morning and afternoon breakout systems both work and make money EVERY day and the orders are automatically generate and executed! I am still working out the bugs in my day trade system, but when I am finished it will also make money every single day.
You can take a peek at my website that is still under construction -- www.ExtremeTradingSystems.com
The problem with OmniTrader is that they sell it to people touting their high percentage of successful trades. Then they cover themselves by saying, oh... it a data mining tool. You need to know what the product is supposed to do for you. I know a lot of people that either do not have the time to become Technical Analysts or are incapable. They pay thousand of dollars for a product that claims to give them buy and sell signals (see OT’s brochures). The product should not give buy and sell signals if they are not correct. If it is a data mining program, then why doesn't it just give a true or false indication that it has met your criteria? If you look at their brochures, they talk about signal accuracy!
In good conscience, I could never recommend OT to anyone. If you are making money with it, good for you! I have binders full of charts printed from OT. I would be broke if I had followed OT signals.
Be careful because Nirvana, the company that makes OT, is trying to sell their Ultimate Trading System, ARM2 ($3500 US). They make outrageous claims about its accuracy also.
Think about this, if OT really did what Nirvana claims, why don’t they allow it to generate its’ signals right into a direct access brokerage for automatic execution? I think the answer is obvious, it would be a disaster! People would lose all their money!
The reason I bought OT and the reason I have bought so many of their add-ons is for the engine and for the intraday candlestick recognition capability. I have a black box system that I have designed. Currently my swing system, my morning and afternoon breakout systems both work and make money EVERY day and the orders are automatically generate and executed! I am still working out the bugs in my day trade system, but when I am finished it will also make money every single day.
You can take a peek at my website that is still under construction -- www.ExtremeTradingSystems.com
The problem with OmniTrader is that they sell it to people touting their high percentage of successful trades. Then they cover themselves by saying, oh... it a data mining tool. You need to know what the product is supposed to do for you. I know a lot of people that either do not have the time to become Technical Analysts or are incapable. They pay thousand of dollars for a product that claims to give them buy and sell signals (see OT’s brochures). The product should not give buy and sell signals if they are not correct. If it is a data mining program, then why doesn't it just give a true or false indication that it has met your criteria? If you look at their brochures, they talk about signal accuracy!
In good conscience, I could never recommend OT to anyone. If you are making money with it, good for you! I have binders full of charts printed from OT. I would be broke if I had followed OT signals.
Be careful because Nirvana, the company that makes OT, is trying to sell their Ultimate Trading System, ARM2 ($3500 US). They make outrageous claims about its accuracy also.
Think about this, if OT really did what Nirvana claims, why don’t they allow it to generate its’ signals right into a direct access brokerage for automatic execution? I think the answer is obvious, it would be a disaster! People would lose all their money!
Gators8385
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Here's a good example that happened this morning. This is a real time 39 minute chart, notice the high has approached and failed the last high, OT still generates a buy signal at $77.50. Now look at how long it has you in the bad trade. Exit and Short signal are at $73.31. An intraday loss of $4.19 per share!
Now look at the Short Sell signal generated. Short at $73.31, currently at $73.89, an open position draw down of $.56. Now this may or may not turn profitable, but if you do not practice good money management you will lose more money than you can make.
In my trading systems, I never risk more than 25 cents. A good stock pick will go your way without large draw downs. If you scan the market for the proper setup and enter correctly, you can cut your draw down risk to a minimum. This is where most traders get killed. It's seems like the whole trading community is convinced that losses are normal and multiple dollar draw downs cannot be avoided, they can and they should be avoided.
Gators8385
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OmniTrader is a waste of money!
Here's a good example that happened this morning. This is a real time 39 minute chart, notice the high has approached and failed the last high, OT still generates a buy signal at $77.50. Now look at how long it has you in the bad trade. Exit and Short signal are at $73.31. An intraday loss of $4.19 per share!
Now look at the Short Sell signal generated. Short at $73.31, currently at $73.89, an open position draw down of $.56. Now this may or may not turn profitable, but if you do not practice good money management you will lose more money than you can make.
In my trading systems, I never risk more than 25 cents. A good stock pick will go your way without large draw downs. If you scan the market for the proper setup and enter correctly, you can cut your draw down risk to a minimum. This is where most traders get killed. It's seems like the whole trading community is convinced that losses are normal and multiple dollar draw downs cannot be avoided. They can and they should.
Here's a good example that happened this morning. This is a real time 39 minute chart, notice the high has approached and failed the last high, OT still generates a buy signal at $77.50. Now look at how long it has you in the bad trade. Exit and Short signal are at $73.31. An intraday loss of $4.19 per share!
Now look at the Short Sell signal generated. Short at $73.31, currently at $73.89, an open position draw down of $.56. Now this may or may not turn profitable, but if you do not practice good money management you will lose more money than you can make.
In my trading systems, I never risk more than 25 cents. A good stock pick will go your way without large draw downs. If you scan the market for the proper setup and enter correctly, you can cut your draw down risk to a minimum. This is where most traders get killed. It's seems like the whole trading community is convinced that losses are normal and multiple dollar draw downs cannot be avoided. They can and they should.
Thanks for posting the chart....
Few points that come to mind.....perhaps you would explain more...?
Were the signals based on your setting, if so what were your settings that gave you the signals?
Did you get the signals from Omnitrader built in scanner or did it give a signal based on Stoc MA crossover only?
What parameters or recheck would you normally apply to check the validity of a signal?
Do you normally set a scanner to filter out all that does not match the set up?
Normally any software will give one a signal based on what it was asked to do in the first place....As they say in computer language...'**** in **** out'....While I am in no way implying that you have done the same, I am interested in the method you applied to get that reading...
regards
Few points that come to mind.....perhaps you would explain more...?
Were the signals based on your setting, if so what were your settings that gave you the signals?
Did you get the signals from Omnitrader built in scanner or did it give a signal based on Stoc MA crossover only?
What parameters or recheck would you normally apply to check the validity of a signal?
Do you normally set a scanner to filter out all that does not match the set up?
Normally any software will give one a signal based on what it was asked to do in the first place....As they say in computer language...'**** in **** out'....While I am in no way implying that you have done the same, I am interested in the method you applied to get that reading...
regards
Last edited:
Gators8385
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zambuck said:
These systems are the OmniTrader plug-ins. I've bought all of them. They come with default settings, but you can go in and have the systems optimize through a range of values that you can input. The problem with the optimization is historical signals change (i.e. a short signal 2 bars ago can change to a buy (long) signal. I have the real time editions, so accurate signals are very important.
OmniTrader is far more complicated than just simple crossovers. It has built in filtering tools to allow multiple strategies and picks the best based on Hit Rate or APR. I have worked very hard over the past three years trying to get OmniTrader to produce reliable signals. Thankfully I know enough about Technical Analysis to have disagreed with the stocks that had new or reinforced signals. I also brought the strategy builder, but I haven't used it yet and don't know that I will.
I use TradeStation direct access and I program mostly everything in Strategies and Scans (using their Radar Screen, which has just increase the number of symbols to 1000). I bought TC2000 (TeleChart) few years ago and learned the language. Because of its easy of use and the low monthly cost, I keep it to run new ideas for setups. The biggest draw back is that it does not scan intraday and it cannot perform back-testing. But I typically will not run a system and risk money until I forward test my systems.
I prefer day trading with no over night land-mine surprises. But for you end of the day swing traders, let me suggest having Telenet send you their free scanning software which they charge $30 US for their end of day data and look for the following:
For long equity entries:
20 moving average (ma) > 50 ma
and
50 ma > 200 ma
and
Stochastic < 20 (or crossing up through 20)
and
(Low below < 20 ma and close > 20 ma
or
Low below < 40 ma and close > 40 ma
or
Low below < 50 ma and close > 50 ma
or
Low below < 200 ma and close > 200 ma)
and
ADX[5] < 30
and
ADX > 30
and
(H3 = MaxH30)
(That is the high of 3 bars ago equals the highest high in the last 30 bars. Don't limit yourself just to three bars however, 2 to 5 bars work depending on the stock.)
and
H2 < H3 (Here your looking for lower highs.)
and
H1 < H
Preferably the last bar will be a narrow trading range (High - Low) < .5*(Average High of 10 days - Average Low of 10 days).
Look for candlesticks with long bottom wicks or Doji's.
Now the most important part:
Enter only when the price rises 10 to 15 cents above the prior bars high (I use 12.5 cents or 1/8 point).
Set your initial stop at the prior bars low minus 10 to 15 cents.
Remember cut your losses short and let your profits run!
After you’re profitably in the trade, you can relax your stop to the low of 2 bars ago minus 10 to 15 cents. This will give you a longer duration and you will capture a larger piece of the swing move.
Good luck!
If you want to see a TON of bugs and nasty inoperable properties, nonexistent quality, and good video's and proofs, go here!
http://www.tradinginsights.com/OTBash.html
Also, someone else has started a serious bash against Nirvana here:
http://www.omnitraderbugs.com
I would not purchase it until the bugs are corrected.
Tex
http://www.tradinginsights.com/OTBash.html
Also, someone else has started a serious bash against Nirvana here:
http://www.omnitraderbugs.com
I would not purchase it until the bugs are corrected.
Tex
Gators8385
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I see I'm not alone!
I am told there are 2 new domain names tied to the www.omnitraderbugs.com website within 48 hours as well. I'm pretty pissed off at them myself. The sight contains live video's demonstating all the major bug elements. Stategy Builder is probably 75% inoperable.
www.nirvanastinks.com and www.omnitradersucks.com
I will be sending my stuff to the new websites as soon as they put a contact link up. It's still being built by a fellow trader that is more capable at building websites than me.
Texas_Trader
aka Trader_Texan, owner www.tradinginsights.com
www.nirvanastinks.com and www.omnitradersucks.com
I will be sending my stuff to the new websites as soon as they put a contact link up. It's still being built by a fellow trader that is more capable at building websites than me.
Texas_Trader
aka Trader_Texan, owner www.tradinginsights.com
Omnitrader stinks, especially their Strategy Builder.
Have a look here:
http://www.tradinginsights.com/OTBash.html
and also a new website here (all the same place):
www.nirvanastinks.com
www.omnitradersucks.com
www.omnitraderbugs.com
Have a look here:
http://www.tradinginsights.com/OTBash.html
and also a new website here (all the same place):
www.nirvanastinks.com
www.omnitradersucks.com
www.omnitraderbugs.com
Windowsill
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As a newbie I started with Omnitrader!!!!..........Now i don't use indicatorsl!!!! OTshould come with a health and wealth warning!
Windowsill said:
OmniTrader just came out with pre-release 4G that corrects a "ton" of bugs. You will notice they never mention the real bugs they corrected in the release notes but rather something that looks minor or new. They will never say "Oh, by the way, we fixed the major problems identified in August 2004...". Oh no, they will never show they are a year behind the bug curve.
They still have a long way to go, but it's much improved now; at least from a strategy builder point of view. I can only hope the constant nagging helped a bit.
It took them OVER a year to make strategy builder more than 25% functional and now they say they are testing the OT2006 release?
Wonderful... can't wait...
BTW, do you still trade with OT only?