Northern Rock nationalisation

[nickoftime]

OK guys - so now theres been a decision made on this albeit a temporary one, when they start trading on this on Monday (will be suspended on open)?

Will there be a fire sale?

Cheers

 

[theroguetrader]

Brown and Darling are COMPLETE IDIOTS ...... !! They should be replaced IMMEDIATELY - WHY has it taken them like 5 " MONTHS " to reach that decision..? LLoyds Bank had it practically sorted out MONTHS ago - but because of the usual " dithering " by this stupid government and gormless brown (whose only where he is because of some shady deal he did with that other fool Blair about 11 yrs ago) -
WHY o WHY do we have to have these " ******S " running our country..?


" Nationalisation " - i thought that was a word out of a history book pre 1970 :-0

 

[theroguetrader]

If the investors get ANY feeling they are being FLEECED by this government - they have EVERY right to sue...

and i hope they ALL DO JUST THAT........ !!
(look at Railtrack - shareholder disputes have being going on for like 6 YEARS)... !! :-0

 

[shadowninja]

Problem is, who pays the people who sue?

 

[Profitaker]

If the investors get ANY feeling they are being FLEECED by this government - they have EVERY right to sue...

and i hope they ALL DO JUST THAT........ !!
(look at Railtrack - shareholder disputes have being going on for like 6 YEARS)... !! :-0

The NRK business was no longer a viable entity last August, when LIBOR spreads exploded to unprecedented levels. That was always a fundamental risk of their business model. Far beit for me to defend this government, but I would point out that if it wasn't for the BOE bail-out 6 months ago, NRK would have called in the receivers at that point in time.

Any other business would have been allowed to go to the wall.

 

[theroguetrader]

The NRK business was no longer a viable entity last August, when LIBOR spreads exploded to unprecedented levels. That was always a fundamental risk of their business model. Far beit for me to defend this government, but I would point out that if it wasn't for the BOE bail-out 6 months ago, NRK would have called in the receivers at that point in time.

Any other business would have been allowed to go to the wall.

Sure,it was a business model that used to work,
the B o E bailout could have happened " behind closed doors " if they werent so tied up in EU legislation -
The run on the bank DESTROYED the " brand " itself - and that can be basically blamed on the media... !! TOTALLY .... !! - THEY caused a Psychological feedback loop -(first 10 in the queue, then 1000 etc etc) - SAYONARA N/R ... !!

i know of 2 Hedge Funds that own at least 18 % of NR - there are going to be SERIOUS reverberations around the city about this... !!


Nationalisation is a BAD word - !!

 

[grantx]

TRT,

I share your sentiments re the government but isn't Rocks undoing a result of their own incompotence? I feel better (but not much) at nationalising this mess than giving (more) billions of taxpayers' (our) money to some opportunist t0sser like Branson.

2008 will become known as the year of the UK/US/EU Government Put Option. So banks will just carry on as normal comfortable in the knowledge their failures will always be supported.

"Serious reverberations"? The City/Wall Street created the monster.

Grant.

 

[RichieE]

The NRK business was no longer a viable entity last August, when LIBOR spreads exploded to unprecedented levels. That was always a fundamental risk of their business model. Far beit for me to defend this government, but I would point out that if it wasn't for the BOE bail-out 6 months ago, NRK would have called in the receivers at that point in time.

Any other business would have been allowed to go to the wall.

I thought that a bank wanting to expand into the UK would bid for Northern Rock. It would be ideal since they already have staff and a ready made high street presence across the UK. (e.g. Citibank)... oh well... I wonder what Branson's thinking of doing now...

 

[theroguetrader]

I thought that a bank wanting to expand into the UK would bid for Northern Rock. It would be ideal since they already have staff and a ready made high street presence across the UK. (e.g. Citibank)... oh well... I wonder what Branson's thinking of doing now...

" BRANSON " ? - his business affairs are about as transparent as TREACLE......... !! his company structure must look like pages on an A - Z ...!!

finance - (so badly wants to get in there)
Cable - hmm - (no comment)
trains - (no comment)
space travel

Where WILL it end..?
LLoyds Bank could have sorted it all out MONTHS ago - but did the govt want to know..?

 

[arabianights]

Problem is, who pays the people who sue?

Damn right. If you buy shares in something you have limited liability. Not no liability. Be prepared to lose all your money. Shareholders don't deserve any protection at all, especially not from tax payers. Northen Rock did not hide their business plan from its investors. Moral hazard has been eroded far too much already.

 

[grantx]

Virgin: floated, went south, privatised.

Grant.

 

[RichieE]

Damn right. If you buy shares in something you have limited liability. Not no liability. Be prepared to lose all your money. Shareholders don't deserve any protection at all, especially not from tax payers. Northen Rock did not hide their business plan from its investors.

I agree with arabian, Northern Rock's business plan was a high risk high. I didn't see Northern Rock shareholders complaining when they made money..,

 

[0007]

NRK - an accident waiting to happen

A complete cockup by "Prudence" and NRK management compounded by nudge & wink from the City.

NRK had a bad business model which was going to ulktimately fail - only "unknown" was when. If FSA had been doing its job properly this would have been flagged up and suitable action taken (but you could say that about Sub-Prime and the financial industry in general couldn't you?). At least one city gent commented in the FT some time ago that the FSA is more interested in "completed returns" than actually understanding what is going on.

Like all financial bubbles and profitable scams (what was that French guy's name at Soc Gen?) the people in the know and in authority are quite happy to let it go on while the $$$ roll in. And this Govermnent claims to act for us! LloydsTSB should have been allowed to take it over quietly and safety measures put in place. But when you are more interested in spin and fiddling the inflation figures, how can this ever be?

I just hope that Joe Public realises the incompetence, dishonesty and lack of integrity of those concerend - but i doubt it; they voted this lot in 3 times didn't they? There is a view that we only get the politicians we deserve: quite possibly true IMHO. Perhaps the taxpayer's indebtedness will give them cause to reflect. Presumably, the banking industry must be laughing all the way to the bank.

As for the shareholders - hard cheddar Im afraid. They didn't complain when NRK was £12 and they will now understand somewhat better what owning part of a company is about. Legal challenges to get £4 a share? - you must be joking!

Isn't it all part of the self-delusion and lack of susbtance of recent years - time to re-learn the old lesson that overall you don't get something for nothing and that if you play "pass the parcel" big-time then you'd better not get left holding it? I feel sorry for the dimwits that have been fooled by smarter people, but life and characters never change do they?

PS What is Darling's "temporary public ownership"? Is it like being "a bit pregnant"?

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

PS What is Darling's "temporary public ownership"? Is it like being "a bit pregnant"?

Or a bit bankrupt?

 

[fibonelli]

The consequences of "Wildcat Finance".

1) ".........A charity's name and status has been used without its consent to create an
opaque financial monstrosity. Those doing the structuring presumably banked
substantial fees - but not a penny of this has flowed through to the Down's
kids involved.................
...........Perhaps those who profited from Granite should reach into their pockets.
Lead underwriters on the Granite programme were Lehman Brothers, Merrill
Lynch, and UBS. Underwriters were Barclays Capital, Citigroup, JP Morgan and
Morgan Stanley..............".

FT Alphaville » Blog Archive » The (un)charitable core of Northern Rock

2) Sir Brian suggested on Tuesday that investors would have to face up to reality or face the bank’s being nationalised.

“Shareholders have not really understood the pretty dire position in which Northern Rock is located. Quite frankly, without a government guarantee it’s broke,” he said.

FT.com / In depth - Virgin says Rock is not ?gravy train? ticket

 

[0007]

Defending the indefensible?

Just been listening to Darling on Radio 4 Today prog. You really wonder why he bothered to turn up!

 

[rwb]

No surprises at all that NRK went the way they did - lending 125% LTV (and to 1st time buyers too) left them totally exposed in any downturn. Perhaps they didn't think a downturn could happen!!!

Then the FSA got involved (after the event as usual) along with the numpties supposedly running the country and couldn't see the benefit of the TSB offer at something around £7 a share due to all the fog they created through their own useless regulations.

Anyone who held onto their shares against this background, they must have known they were onto a hiding to nothing. Feel for them but hope they've learned.

 

[Crap Buddist]

Never trust a man with fuzzy eyebrows

 

[Crap Buddist]

This is what I think will happen, when the government sells on the rock ,it will be crumbling, I think they will take a loss down the road, They want to hold until market conditions come good!? Maybe when the tories get back in, a cut a mother of all losses on it then might be the time to go long the market..

and the presss for years will be saying" but PM the market conditions they have got worse.. ?" how much and how long are you gonna be wasting taxpayers cash on this lemon..... ?

Then the tories get in flog it, call labour a bunch of ******s, and we all go overweight stocks for some good old tory upside ?

Hoooraaahhh.. !

 

[nickoftime]

Wow was really interesting to see Jon Moultons scathe on the government on Despatches just.

Plus estimates on write downs from the high street. Does anyone believe there is scope for profiting on downsides as the statements are made from the banks over the next 3 weeks?