rawrschach
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lawl sure
No B.S. Day Trading
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I wouldn't go as far to say prop shops don't use charts.... From personal experience, and from experience where I'm trading now, that's a load of rubbish. The only traders that I know that don't look at charts at all are spreaders. For example working out dollar value and trading the yield cruve with a TED spread when interest rates change. Yeah the rest of us spend most of our day watching the dom for when it comes to the nitty gritty of taking the trade, but that's just telling you what is happening right now, and the cumlative volume on a the dom is market profile, which is a charting package in its own right, and to understand market profile, regardless if it's a profile chart or the profile on the dom, you have to understand auction market theory, which is what market profile is based on. For that go buy the book Mind Over Market by James Dalton from Amazon or check out the CME exhange website as it was orginally developed by a guy called Peter Stieldmyer (probably spelt wrong) in the 80's who was on the board of the Chicago Board of Trade which merged with the Chiacgo Mercantile Exchange.
Never ceases to amaze me how much people B.S about trading lol
To say profitable traders only look at the dom for their trading decisons is highly controversial, and to me controversey attracts attention and attention is good if you have something to sell. I'm not discrediting the nbs trading book, a lot of stuff in there is helpful to someone who has just started trading as it will make sure that they start of on the right path. For example, when I first started prop, I had to sit there for a month just looking at the DOM before I was taught technical analysis and market profile. As I say...to say no one uses charts is just an attention grabbing headline. 100 people a month giving you $50 is still $5000 a month, which is helpful I imagin if you're not profitable..... So don't be naive and think that there's no hidden agended because it's so cheap....
Consistent scalping is dead, so everyone thinking they're gonna be a scalper needs to forget about it as the markets are way to effcient now days for such trading. Most people who I see on forums who think they're a scalper aren't a scalper. When the markets used to be less effcient, scalpers would lean on a bid/offer to cover the spread between the bid and offer. That was scalping.... doesn't exist anymore....
Never ceases to amaze me how much people B.S about trading lol
To say profitable traders only look at the dom for their trading decisons is highly controversial, and to me controversey attracts attention and attention is good if you have something to sell. I'm not discrediting the nbs trading book, a lot of stuff in there is helpful to someone who has just started trading as it will make sure that they start of on the right path. For example, when I first started prop, I had to sit there for a month just looking at the DOM before I was taught technical analysis and market profile. As I say...to say no one uses charts is just an attention grabbing headline. 100 people a month giving you $50 is still $5000 a month, which is helpful I imagin if you're not profitable..... So don't be naive and think that there's no hidden agended because it's so cheap....
Consistent scalping is dead, so everyone thinking they're gonna be a scalper needs to forget about it as the markets are way to effcient now days for such trading. Most people who I see on forums who think they're a scalper aren't a scalper. When the markets used to be less effcient, scalpers would lean on a bid/offer to cover the spread between the bid and offer. That was scalping.... doesn't exist anymore....
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DionysusToast
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Mr O - a rather appropriate Moniker for today - what do you think - Phil, Kai, Branch? You should be careful here about mentioning Dalton - there's a few guys here that think he's just some guy that can't trade and sells books & courses!
For charts, I think there's a couple of considerations. For the bigger picture, for figuring out where you are, creating your "what ifs?" before you start trading for the day, charts and/or profiles are essential. The market could be 3 ticks away from the 10 year high when you start the day - the trader that has that in mind will fare better than the trader that ignores it.
For intraday moves, I'm of the opinion that it depends on the market. The more volatile a market, the more intraday swings it puts in, the more I think charts are handy intraday. There's also the fact that a lot of people are more 'numerate' than others and can track levels where price got stuck previously in their heads. If you can remember the last 5 prices that price turned, you don't need a chart - it's in your head.
For markets like the treasuries, I don't see much point in having an intraday chart to be honest because the markets don't bounce around so much. The profile is more than enough.
For the ES, I use charts myself but my primary focus is the DOM. I do not have a good head for numbers, so I like to look @ the charts to refresh my head on where it is, in particular I am interested in the swing sized & the delta. Swing size primarily because of the measured moved it tends to put in.
I agree that scalping the bid/offer is probably dead - certainly it died in stocks when they decimalised the prices but I presume the HFTs on stocks like BAC are still something like that. Scalping now seems to be used as a catch-all term for anything shorter term than position day trading. It means something different to everyone.
For charts, I think there's a couple of considerations. For the bigger picture, for figuring out where you are, creating your "what ifs?" before you start trading for the day, charts and/or profiles are essential. The market could be 3 ticks away from the 10 year high when you start the day - the trader that has that in mind will fare better than the trader that ignores it.
For intraday moves, I'm of the opinion that it depends on the market. The more volatile a market, the more intraday swings it puts in, the more I think charts are handy intraday. There's also the fact that a lot of people are more 'numerate' than others and can track levels where price got stuck previously in their heads. If you can remember the last 5 prices that price turned, you don't need a chart - it's in your head.
For markets like the treasuries, I don't see much point in having an intraday chart to be honest because the markets don't bounce around so much. The profile is more than enough.
For the ES, I use charts myself but my primary focus is the DOM. I do not have a good head for numbers, so I like to look @ the charts to refresh my head on where it is, in particular I am interested in the swing sized & the delta. Swing size primarily because of the measured moved it tends to put in.
I agree that scalping the bid/offer is probably dead - certainly it died in stocks when they decimalised the prices but I presume the HFTs on stocks like BAC are still something like that. Scalping now seems to be used as a catch-all term for anything shorter term than position day trading. It means something different to everyone.
Hello everyone,
Interesting thread. I wish to propose an alternate suggestion; I believe that you can be profitable using TA. I also believe you can be profitable using fundamentals. I also believe that it doesn't really matter what you use. In fact, a profitable trader needs not be right much more than 50% of the time. Also, some people have made money with any method in the past, and many have lost a lot of money all with exactly the same buy/sell signals.
Therefore I propose you pick a method that works for you, and keep at it.
Then again, what the hell do I know.
Cheers
Interesting thread. I wish to propose an alternate suggestion; I believe that you can be profitable using TA. I also believe you can be profitable using fundamentals. I also believe that it doesn't really matter what you use. In fact, a profitable trader needs not be right much more than 50% of the time. Also, some people have made money with any method in the past, and many have lost a lot of money all with exactly the same buy/sell signals.
Therefore I propose you pick a method that works for you, and keep at it.
Then again, what the hell do I know.
Cheers
yiehom
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yiehom
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Do you mean to record with a camera? Can't see the point of recording hundreds of hours of tape, let alone find the time to wach them later, but am missing something certainly.
Good on you, if you want to trade this way then stick at it. As far as how long my trades last, it really depends on the action and my timing, anywhere from seconds to 15-20 minutues potentially, all depends on what I'm seeing, if I see the market is still supporting my trade then I'll stay in, if I have a doubt or see something to change my mind, I'll get out, sometimes that happens a few seconds after I get in, sometimes its a few minutes, so its hard to put a set time amount on how long my trades last.
Remember to try a few different markets, you don't necessarily have to trade ZN because that is what somoene else does, go with what you're comfortable with. If you've been doing this for 12 sessions, you have a long, long way to go, keep watching and recording. Good luck
Although MR.O is right in some respects. Order book scalping is still alive and real, but it is much harder to accomplish. But believe it or not markets change and you must adapt with them otherwise you become history.
The arbitrage and price differentials between US and European markets, more specifically equity futures, is still there if you know what to look for. Personally I scalp stoxx and s&p after US open up until market close at 9 and if the market is not upset by large news events it remains a stable strategy to use, albeit risky due to lack of stop losses. This is all done without the use of charts, pure order book methods.
In regards to holding longer positions. Atleast in futures, the most successful traders do this, but they have incredibly large funds (millions) which gives them the ability to hold out through large pnl swings. This is also a detriment as scalping futures, atleast in the current market, would be impossible with 5000 lots on stoxx/s&p.
It's all about adapting.
The arbitrage and price differentials between US and European markets, more specifically equity futures, is still there if you know what to look for. Personally I scalp stoxx and s&p after US open up until market close at 9 and if the market is not upset by large news events it remains a stable strategy to use, albeit risky due to lack of stop losses. This is all done without the use of charts, pure order book methods.
In regards to holding longer positions. Atleast in futures, the most successful traders do this, but they have incredibly large funds (millions) which gives them the ability to hold out through large pnl swings. This is also a detriment as scalping futures, atleast in the current market, would be impossible with 5000 lots on stoxx/s&p.
It's all about adapting.
Is grey1 still around?
lawrence-lugar
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Reborn :innocent:
are you referring to grey1 or the thread?
lawrence-lugar
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this thread...being awoken again from the dead.
The thread preceding mine was dated 28 August 2015.
Would you like to rethink your statement? Or better still-just get a life and stop wasting peoples time.
edit-apologies-I realise now that the preceding post revived an old thread.sorry-rough morning.
lawrence-lugar
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The damage has been done; you hurt my feelings.
haha-sorry mate.
Actually,while ive got your attention,when I was thinking someone was mocking me and I started to froth at the mouth I went over to your wallstreetboy site.Your competition trading results are very impressive-in fact I think you came first in each comp I looked at.Are you able to replicate those or part of those results with cash on the line?Or does your trading suffer to the point of not being viable with the financial pressure added in?
Just curious.Appreciate any insight you can share.
Cheers,
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