FTSE Beater
Experienced member
- Messages
- 1,518
- Likes
- 6
PitBull said:
Hi Pitbull and all
I thought my input had been condemned to history
I still trade this and there is a fuller explanation of the rules which go with it on the web site (the address is the presentation). I have not updated it for a while but it should be a good starting point for anyone wanting to develop their own strategy.The thing to beare in mind is that this is a strategy which both scalps and catches intra-day swings. It should be used with tight stops (typically) and any trade which looks like failing should be chopped ruthlessly. The idea behind it was to grab 4 to 10 points multiple times a day with the occassional swing which gave you 20 plus points. Because the typical returns are low per trade the cutting of failed trades is vital. The real returns are made when you catch a move very early on and then have a series of further entries. Today was a classic for this method, with a couple of scalps and then a good move at 7pm UK time which could have been ridden and re-entered.
It requires a lot of screen time as you have to be in tune with the price action to get the most out of it. The best performance can be seen when you have a trending day with regular pullbacks. The method can perform badly in a choppy day and you must be prepared to chop trades quickly. If using this method try to keep losses to a minimum ie. cut trades flat or for plus or minus a couple of points if you think it might go against you. It is keeping the losses as tight as possible which boosts the overall returns.
Classic analysis would tell you not to trade this method as the risk/reward per trade is, on the face of it, poor. However, the returns overall should be consistent and profitable as it gets you into bigger moves very early and this is where the money is made. I'm not too unhappy if after 4 trades I am still at breakeven as there is a good chance of the fifth trade catching a solid move.
Hope this helps
JPWone
rossored
Senior member
- Messages
- 2,103
- Likes
- 56
Interesting article - however, I cant fail but notice a bit of an error in the text.
Bottom of page 8, it says :
Current level of Dow 10000
SB Quote 10000/10007
You buy at 10007
Dow moves to 9999
SB quote is now 9993/10000
Actual has moved 1 point but your loss is 14 points.
Well thats not strictly true using the above as the example figures, is it? The first quote is based on the price being 10000, and the buying price at 10007, right? So if, as quoted, the Dow "actual" moves 1 point, then the requoted offer will be 9999/10006, NOT 9993/10000 : Hence you're only 8 pips down, not 14. For the price to be 9993/10000, the Dow would have had to move the full 7 points against you.
In fact, its the same on the next page :
Dow 10k
Quote 10000/10007
Sell at 10k
Dow moves to 9999
Sb quote is 9992/9999
Actual has moved 1 point, gain is 1 point :
this is completely wrong. There is still a spread to cover whether you're long or short. If you're selling at 10k, then with a 7 point spread as in the example the ACTUAL price has to move 8 full points down before you are in profit, as when you want to get out of this position, you have to buy the other side of the price.
In the second set of figures above, the second quote would not be 9992/9999 if the Dow moved 1 point from the original quote of 10000 : it would still be 9999/10006.
I know this is referring to "bias" in general, but the bias is not as strong as quoted in the above examples, unless the SB companies have become even more money grabbing since I last SB the Dow - which was some time ago, admittedly.
Certainly if you're using a SB company which manipulates the prices to that sort of degree, then you need to sort your head out and get a different one imo, because they are robbing you blind in both directions.
Bottom of page 8, it says :
Current level of Dow 10000
SB Quote 10000/10007
You buy at 10007
Dow moves to 9999
SB quote is now 9993/10000
Actual has moved 1 point but your loss is 14 points.
Well thats not strictly true using the above as the example figures, is it? The first quote is based on the price being 10000, and the buying price at 10007, right? So if, as quoted, the Dow "actual" moves 1 point, then the requoted offer will be 9999/10006, NOT 9993/10000 : Hence you're only 8 pips down, not 14. For the price to be 9993/10000, the Dow would have had to move the full 7 points against you.
In fact, its the same on the next page :
Dow 10k
Quote 10000/10007
Sell at 10k
Dow moves to 9999
Sb quote is 9992/9999
Actual has moved 1 point, gain is 1 point :
this is completely wrong. There is still a spread to cover whether you're long or short. If you're selling at 10k, then with a 7 point spread as in the example the ACTUAL price has to move 8 full points down before you are in profit, as when you want to get out of this position, you have to buy the other side of the price.
In the second set of figures above, the second quote would not be 9992/9999 if the Dow moved 1 point from the original quote of 10000 : it would still be 9999/10006.
I know this is referring to "bias" in general, but the bias is not as strong as quoted in the above examples, unless the SB companies have become even more money grabbing since I last SB the Dow - which was some time ago, admittedly.
Certainly if you're using a SB company which manipulates the prices to that sort of degree, then you need to sort your head out and get a different one imo, because they are robbing you blind in both directions.
Last edited:
Hi rosso
what it is illustrating is something you can see regularily when trading the Dow Daily Cash. The example given was based on the SB company swinging their bias from positive to negative. They may do this in a couple of moves but it would still be true that the actual had moved 1 point against you whilst the SB price has moved 7.
jpwone
what it is illustrating is something you can see regularily when trading the Dow Daily Cash. The example given was based on the SB company swinging their bias from positive to negative. They may do this in a couple of moves but it would still be true that the actual had moved 1 point against you whilst the SB price has moved 7.
jpwone
PitBull
Established member
- Messages
- 620
- Likes
- 58
Hi there JP Wone
I have followed your website and DOW strategy with interest but I have a full time job, so I am unable to watch my screen all day. I did try this strategy when I had some hols and I got it to work and now use it when I have the occasional trading holiday (time off work to trade). As you say, keeping your losses small is vital and getting the SB price in your favour is key to small losses and bigger profits.
Thanks again mate
Pitbull
I have followed your website and DOW strategy with interest but I have a full time job, so I am unable to watch my screen all day. I did try this strategy when I had some hols and I got it to work and now use it when I have the occasional trading holiday (time off work to trade). As you say, keeping your losses small is vital and getting the SB price in your favour is key to small losses and bigger profits.
Thanks again mate
Pitbull
TheBramble
Legendary member
- Messages
- 8,394
- Likes
- 1,170
RR exactly what it it you are disagreeing with jpwone about? The fact that SBs bias their prices or that they swing as dramatically (in context of the underlying) as he says?rossored said:Well I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that one JP
The subject of using SB bias has been covered elsewhere on a number of posts by yours truly. While the 'normal' operation of SBs price against underlying isn't that drastic 'as a rule' - when it does happen (and it does happen!) it's a useful indicator to follow.
I've suggested elsewhere a system I used to use which took prices from 2 SBs and then watched when they both reversed their bias as a 'get on board' the anticipated direction.
It's a hard way to make a living, especially as there are easier and more profitable ways open, but it's still viable.
Lord Lister
Junior member
- Messages
- 14
- Likes
- 0
If you and me are both sb the dow at the same time with the same company, are we seeing the same price? or can the sb companies manipulate figures depending on who is trading and in what direction?
Trade diff with SB
Hi JPOne
iam a newbie and recently regsitered with thei T2win and would like to get clarify my doubt.
I understand the SB's quote with some difference to the real trade market...
1. My question is After doing the Technical analysis and if go for the trade with a SB like CMC or finespreads will the TA done by the individual work out as expected...?
2. If this is the case of the Day trading and the market moves fast enough before we recognise the move, is the alternative is to the Futures trade like FTSE Dec04 etc...
3. As a newbie i traded thru CMC and had few profit and also few loss, btu after reading this thread i feel a bit worries on how to approach for the Intra-Day trading...
Pls do clarify me
Cheers VP
Hi JPOne
iam a newbie and recently regsitered with thei T2win and would like to get clarify my doubt.
I understand the SB's quote with some difference to the real trade market...
1. My question is After doing the Technical analysis and if go for the trade with a SB like CMC or finespreads will the TA done by the individual work out as expected...?
2. If this is the case of the Day trading and the market moves fast enough before we recognise the move, is the alternative is to the Futures trade like FTSE Dec04 etc...
3. As a newbie i traded thru CMC and had few profit and also few loss, btu after reading this thread i feel a bit worries on how to approach for the Intra-Day trading...
Pls do clarify me
Cheers VP
rossored
Senior member
- Messages
- 2,103
- Likes
- 56
vishwamv said:
1.Unfortunately TA isnt an exact science. Just because you think you see something, that doesnt mean that a) its there or b) that it'll do what you think/want it to do. The SB price may end up being out here or there by a couple of points but nothing major.
2.If you're using a SB broker, trading SB futures isnt the same as actually trading the futures. For this, you need a broker like IB, E*Trade or similar.
3. Dont worry. You win some, you lose some.
rossored said:
Hi Rossored,
thanks for your quick reply. That clears my clarification, even though regarding the "here and there couple of points but nothing major on SB Price difference" i had a second thought....
Is it like on checking carefully both the online market price and Spreadbet broker price (like CMS,Finespread etc) cant we come to a conclusion that they make a difference of n number of points on their system when compared to Online market? or that n number of points differs everyday during the trade time?...
Hope iam not too much question or could be a basic question ....
pls do clarify me...
Cheers VP
rossored
Senior member
- Messages
- 2,103
- Likes
- 56
vishwamv said:
I think I understand what you're getting at.
Most of the time there is a difference between - for example - what ECBOT might quote you on the Dow Futures, and what a SB broker might quote you, yes. Its hard (if not impossible) to say that it differs by X at a certain time each day, or even on a certain day. It pretty much depends on your broker.
rossored said:
Hi Rossored,
Well, very quick reply .......hats off to you...
I got clear picture about it...
Fine, I would like to know the difference between Swing position trading and Intraday trading....
From this T2W i understand on reading threads, that Swing position trading is like when u hold a position for two or there days (ie more than 1 day) it is reffered as Swing position trading and Intraday traders open and close the position on same or may be in few hours before on the same day .....Am i right...? Also few SB brokers as i mentioned earlier CMC they close the position if iam holding the long or short position when market closes and reopens the next day when market opens...Is it the practice of the SB companies....?
I had also visited FTSE Beaters thread on basics of trading, It was very useful and i learned a lot from that thread, before that i was not aware of the trading techniques. i hope it does applicable for all the markets like intraday traders, swing trader...
Can u tell me from which internet site can i get the live trading signals...
Cheers VP
rossored
Senior member
- Messages
- 2,103
- Likes
- 56
vishwamv said:Hi Rossored,
Well, very quick reply .......hats off to you...
I got clear picture about it...
Fine, I would like to know the difference between Swing position trading and Intraday trading....
From this T2W i understand on reading threads, that Swing position trading is like when u hold a position for two or there days (ie more than 1 day) it is reffered as Swing position trading and Intraday traders open and close the position on same or may be in few hours before on the same day .....Am i right...? Also few SB brokers as i mentioned earlier CMC they close the position if iam holding the long or short position when market closes and reopens the next day when market opens...Is it the practice of the SB companies....?
I had also visited FTSE Beaters thread on basics of trading, It was very useful and i learned a lot from that thread, before that i was not aware of the trading techniques. i hope it does applicable for all the markets like intraday traders, swing trader...
Can u tell me from which internet site can i get the live trading signals...
Cheers VP
Yes you're right about your interpretation of swing/day trading
Its not the practice of all the SB companies. Some will allow you to carry positions overnight but they will charge you for this.
Try doing a search on the site for "live charts" or "live data feeds". Otherwise, go to the "reviews" section and have a look from there. It depends on what you want to chart.