New Version Ichimoku Charts

[Roberto]

before we even discuss that there must be some for of agreement as to which formulae is correct one.... is the one supplied by Updata or Metastock the correct versions....or are they both correct..??

Sorry, I don't use either so I can't contribute to that discussion.

How did you cut down the moving average..??....Did you use the same formulae to construct the standard line..?...or did you use one of your own?

My attempted updated (i.e. slightly shortened to allow for the modern 5-day trading week) approximation of the "clouds" is that on a daily chart it's the area between two lines: a 20-day EMA right-shifted by 20 days and a 40-day EMA right-shifted by 40 days. Sounds a bit simplistic and arbitrary, I know, but I've actually found it rather interesting, although this isn't my normal trading style at all.

 

[zambuck]

Hi Zambuck,

I think we’ve now got resolution on some of the issues that you raised surrounding the presentation of these charts on this thread.

To be brief, Updata have added a third parameter to the Ichimoku dialog so that it can be specified as 9,26,52 – or whatever settings the user chooses – which will give users far more flexibility in the way in which the charts can be presented, and it seems that they’ve also modified the span 1 calculation to match the one shown in the article in Stocks and Commodities; which you can see here http://www.forex-books.com/articles/techan/ichimoku.pdf

I’ve redrawn the S&P chart using the default settings of 9,26,52 and so with luck my chart should look similar to one of yours drawn with the same settings.

Please let me know what you think?

HTH

Best regards

Mayfly

Hi Mayfly...

Thanks for posting the chart....

I have checked the chart you posted and it would appear that Updata have indeed recalculated the Span A line, as it appears same as Metastock charting line....which I also believe is the default formulae, unless someone knows better...

This now makes sense as when the standard line and turning lines are wider, the Span lines will vary quite markedly....

What is still of interest is that if we project the Spans, as it appears on Updata chart, is that how was that data (of spans) calculated, looking at the fact that part of Span line calculation comes from Standard and Turning lines....and that these lines do not project beyond the end bar....!!...MS charts do not go beyond that bar....So what is the correct method I wonder....?

Good to note that you have been busy with Updata boyos....

All the best....am off to a Thai in Northwood with wifey...so will talk in next few days....

All the best...

 

[zambuck]

Sorry, I don't use either so I can't contribute to that discussion.

My attempted updated (i.e. slightly shortened to allow for the modern 5-day trading week) approximation of the "clouds" is that on a daily chart it's the area between two lines: a 20-day EMA right-shifted by 20 days and a 40-day EMA right-shifted by 40 days. Sounds a bit simplistic and arbitrary, I know, but I've actually found it rather interesting, although this isn't my normal trading style at all.

Hi Roberto...

I think the question on formulae used by Updata has been now answered by our good friend Mayfly....

Regarding your next comment, I think that main point to consider is that Span lines are 'dependent' on Standard and Turning lines, which also depand on a calculation used....

So any change on the calcs of Standard and Turning lines will have effect on Spans defining Kumo....

So which one to use..??...Is the question...!!

I think you are right in that it is good to test with various settings to establish the right one...

I will be doing that certainly..!!

 

[GruntnoWay]

I got a reply from Updata's support team this afternoon. They imply that there can be more than one calculation but 2 weeks ago they decided to use the Muranaka formulas so I re did the upgrade and see they have also allowed 3 periods to be altered which is great.

I also asked them about the Spans and they had this to say.

As regards the Spans being projected forward, this is correct. The Spans are plotted x days ahead of the price and so they will be x days ahead of the last price. They provide important information about Support and Resistance in the future. We do know that some program structures do not allow indicators to lead the price which may explain the anomoly you raised.

 

[zambuck]

Chris

Updata got the calcs of Span line wrong in the first place, which they now have amended......!!

Spans can be projected forwards, BUT important thing is that the spans are 'DEPENDENT' on the Standard and Turning lines, and these lines form basis of the 'projection' of SPAN lines, which are 'plotted' 26 days ahead.....So presumably the last plot of span line is plotted 26 days ahead of last bar and standard and turning lines....

 

[GruntnoWay]

Spans can be projected forwards, BUT important thing is that the spans are 'DEPENDENT' on the Standard and Turning lines, and as these lines form basis of the 'projection' of SPAN lines, how they achieve it in charts is still not clear.....Updata charts do not project the Standard and Turning lines, so how the Span lines are calculated in Updata charts for days beyond last bar is not clear...!!!

Perhaps they will enlighten us more.....!!!

Sorry Zambuck mate but thats an odd statement. Even with my limited knowledge of arithmetic i can see that the spans should project forward because they are calculated today but plotted 26 days ahead of the standard and turning lines. I cant see any argument that they should not be projected like metastock.

i think this academic discussion is closed now. Can we get on to interpreting the damn things.

Chris

 

[zambuck]

.....Please feel free mate.....

I am glad that at least you will be using 'correct' calculation of Span line changed by Updata now, rather than what you were using earlier.......

 

[Nildes]

I've been fiddling with the newer version and trying it out on some stocks.
Not wanting to wait for Updata to post its usually brief explanation in the help file and not wanting to pay £100's to attend one of their courses which would gallop through the subject anyway, I've been matching it against some traded stocks with interesting results.
The supplied chart gives a suggested setup of 9, 26, 52.
If you scale these down but keep the same ratio (you can go down to 1,3,6) you get some interesting signals with stocks. You also have to replace the candles with a line to avoid confusion.
2,6,12 seems to give good results. Try is on PET against the standard numbers!
Regards


N.

 

[GruntnoWay]

I have been fiddling too. I do like the 3rd period. It gives a lot of flexibility. I have been using 3. I am spending a lot of time looking at cloud formations. the fact they project into the future is like using 1/3 2/3 speed resistance lines because it shows you what is the worst the price can do in next month before it turns bearish.

 

[Nildes]

Gruntnoway,
Interesting about the clouds & support/resistance. I see their changing shape as visualising a measure of the strength of support or resistance in that both can strengthen or weaken over time.
So, if the cloud thickens, it increases and if it thins it decreases.
Any comments?

N.

 

[kalott]

Perhaps I can explain more ......

Earlier version of MS did not have Ichimoku Kinko Hyo as standard and that's why I had to programme these in from a MS formulae site. As there was no further explanation I did not pay too much attention to these...I developed a system that I used and stuck to it..!!

In ver 9 of MS they are built in, but then I haven't tried these out again..I use CMO along with Aroon which works much better in identifying the trending securities...

I tried to create an exploration for Ichimoku Kinko Hyo charts to filter out charts that do not meet the criteria as I don't like to 'sit and flick' charts, but to concentrate on charts that needs a look.....and as far as I am aware no exploration for these charts has been provided in MS ver 9...however I understand that someone has now wriiten an exploration for Ichimoku, Renko and Kagi for MS 9 so I think I need another look at these indicators....

zambuck

where can i find information about exploration Kagi in Metastock?

 

[zambuck]

Perhaps this is not the place to discuss kagi etc for MS....

Would you please post this on MS site so that we can discuss further....

Can a Mod move this post on MS site please...?

 

[GruntnoWay]

Back from 3 weeks holiday. Now has anyone got any more information on these charts? They are burning a hole in my brain

 

[Nildes]

Gruntnoway,
I thought the thread had died!
However, I have been making progress & if I get time, I'll post it up.
Meanwhile, I'm on holiday myself next week so I may not post up until the week after.
Regards


N.

 

[Graham Wade]

Gruntnoway,
Interesting about the clouds & support/resistance. I see their changing shape as visualising a measure of the strength of support or resistance in that both can strengthen or weaken over time.
So, if the cloud thickens, it increases and if it thins it decreases.
Any comments?

N.

I am just getting into these charts and agree with you. I also get the impression from what I've read that the further above the cloud the lines (including the close line) are the more likely the uptrend is to continue and vise versa for lines below the cloud. Is this your understanding?

 

[GruntnoWay]

Look forward to some charts.
I am getting better information from weekly charts now but have spent hours looking at them in 60min time charts.

 

[GruntnoWay]

Did you see the chart of the day of GSK? I have been trying to get my scans to find these. I think I have cracked it.

 

[Nildes]

You mean this quote:
"The idea is to flip between daily, weekly and monthly charts looking for
cloud crosses. Personally, I favour weekly charts. They are less choppy and
suit my time horizon better. You get the right balance of signals too. Not
too many and not too few. Using the highlighter (we show you how to set this
up on Friday - also See Ichimoku Document - here) allows you to scan
for cloud crosses as well. On the FTSE 350 stocks, for instance, the
Highlighter scans for these signals in under a minute."

I cant seem to get my highlighter to do this. Any tips?
Regards


Nildes

 

[GruntnoWay]

You mean this quote:
"The idea is to flip between daily, weekly and monthly charts looking for
cloud crosses. Personally, I favour weekly charts. They are less choppy and
suit my time horizon better. You get the right balance of signals too. Not
too many and not too few. Using the highlighter (we show you how to set this
up on Friday - also See Ichimoku Document - here) allows you to scan
for cloud crosses as well. On the FTSE 350 stocks, for instance, the
Highlighter scans for these signals in under a minute."

I cant seem to get my highlighter to do this. Any tips?
Regards


Nildes

I am using Lagging line has crossed above the cloud (top) and then running weekly scan. I am sure there are other conditions that need adding, but this is working for me now.

Chris

 

[Nildes]

I am using Lagging line has crossed above the cloud (top) and then running weekly scan. I am sure there are other conditions that need adding, but this is working for me now.

Chris

Nope highlighter still dead. How long does yours take to produce a result?