My story of progression - forex

[JTrader]

Hi Keeping a ssmall diary (short brief description of each trade, entry and exit price, what i did, what the outcome was, what could have been done differently) in the early stages of my new trading plan is i feel a useful exercise. I can now reflect upon and learn from each passing day. If I didn't do this, a 35 trade week would probably be just one long blur to me...........

With each trade I enter, I am good at recognising the possible outcomes. My hunches as to what is the likeliest outcome from any single trade are OK. I do not have faith in my hunches just yet though. Perhaps I will have with a few more weeks experience.
At the moment, I sometimes only recognise and understand an occurence after the event - at which point I think - I should have seen that coming!
Once I have witnessed more, it is my hope that I will be able to recognise things quicker, anticipate, react appropriately to a situation and overall be calmer and more understanding......such as recognising when not to execute a trade signal for entry in a particular direction. A bit like comparing when you learn to drive a car and when you become a more experienced driver - moving onto recognising and interpreting the road in front of you, seeing potential hazards more quickly in advance etc.

Would you attribute how you developed and became more adept and skillful (chump et al), to this type of learning, experience and internalisation process?

Cheers.

ps. My new approach of 100% chart reading is new to me. During my previous intraday experience with FTSE100 banks, I had charts, but mainly relied on L2. I did not really understand TA or trading at the time, at all, but did somehow treble my initial capital in 4 months or so.

I now use tradestation 8.1, and had spent considerable time investigating the possibilities of mechanical intraday trading. I abondoned this, and now use a mechanical indicator based entry signal, which i may or may not execute, along with a discretionary exit.
I now can see that fully mechanical intraday trading would not have worked for me, or at least would have been less profitable (= probably a loss maker), with any type of strategy that I am capable of coding.
Besides which, what am i supposed to do for 8 hours per day, if all thought process is taken out of my hands?

And despite the fact that I use a (lets call it a) mechanical indicator based entry, I now see trendlines, support and resistance and price action as the most important things on my chart.
Indicators will give signals when their criteria is met, but if you had a blank chart, you would only really see support and resistance levels, trend direction and price action...........

 

[andycan]

Hi Keeping a ssmall diary (short brief description of each trade, entry and exit price, what i did, what the outcome was, what could have been done differently) in the early stages of my new trading plan is i feel a useful exercise. I can now reflect upon and learn from each passing day. If I didn't do this, a 35 trade week would probably be just one long blur to me...........

With each trade I enter, I am good at recognising the possible outcomes. My hunches as to what is the likeliest outcome from any single trade are OK. I do not have faith in my hunches just yet though. Perhaps I will have with a few more weeks experience.
At the moment, I sometimes only recognise and understand an occurence after the event - at which point I think - I should have seen that coming!
Once I have witnessed more, it is my hope that I will be able to recognise things quicker, anticipate, and react appropriately to a situation......such as recognising when not to execute a trade signal for entry in a particular direction.

Would you attribute how you developed and became more adept and skillful (chump et al), to this type of learning, experience and internalisation process?

Cheers.

ps. My new approach of 100% chart reading is new to me. During my previous intraday experience with FTSE100 banks, I had charts, but mainly relied on L2. I did not really understand TA or trading at the time, at all, but did somehow treble my initial capital in 4 months or so.

I now use tradestation 8.1, and had spent considerable time investigating the possibilities of mechanical intraday trading. I abondoned this, and now use a mechanical indicator based entry signal, which i may or may not execute, along with a discretionary exit.
I now can see that fully mechanical intraday trading would not have worked for me, or at least would have been less profitable (= probably a loss maker), with any type of strategy that I am capable of coding.
Besides which, what am i supposed to do for 8 hours per day, if all thought process is taken out of my hands?

And despite the fact that I use a (lets call it a) mechanical indicator based entry, I now see trendlines, support and resistance and price action as the most important things on a chart.
Indicators will give signals when their criteria is met, but if you had a blank chart, you would only really see support and resistance levels, trend direction and price action...........

to go over you trades and see why it won or lost is probably the single most important thing you can do to improve your skills
but i would suggest you do that at the end of the day whilst the day is still fresh in your mind
i did this for years and it worked for me
as for your last statement its a matter of training your mind to see the patterns, S/R etc
good luck

 

[dbphoenix]

Hi Keeping a ssmall diary (short brief description of each trade, entry and exit price, what i did, what the outcome was, what could have been done differently) in the early stages of my new trading plan is i feel a useful exercise. I can now reflect upon and learn from each passing day. If I didn't do this, a 35 trade week would probably be just one long blur to me...........

With each trade I enter, I am good at recognising the possible outcomes. My hunches as to what is the likeliest outcome from any single trade are OK. I do not have faith in my hunches just yet though. Perhaps I will have with a few more weeks experience.
At the moment, I sometimes only recognise and understand an occurence after the event - at which point I think - I should have seen that coming!
Once I have witnessed more, it is my hope that I will be able to recognise things quicker, anticipate, react appropriately to a situation and overall be calmer and more understanding......such as recognising when not to execute a trade signal for entry in a particular direction. A bit like comparing when you learn to drive a car and when you become a more experienced driver - moving onto recognising and interpreting the road in front of you, seeing potential hazards more quickly in advance etc.

Would you attribute how you developed and became more adept and skillful (chump et al), to this type of learning, experience and internalisation process?

Cheers.

ps. My new approach of 100% chart reading is new to me. During my previous intraday experience with FTSE100 banks, I had charts, but mainly relied on L2. I did not really understand TA or trading at the time, at all, but did somehow treble my initial capital in 4 months or so.

I now use tradestation 8.1, and had spent considerable time investigating the possibilities of mechanical intraday trading. I abondoned this, and now use a mechanical indicator based entry signal, which i may or may not execute, along with a discretionary exit.
I now can see that fully mechanical intraday trading would not have worked for me, or at least would have been less profitable (= probably a loss maker), with any type of strategy that I am capable of coding.
Besides which, what am i supposed to do for 8 hours per day, if all thought process is taken out of my hands?

And despite the fact that I use a (lets call it a) mechanical indicator based entry, I now see trendlines, support and resistance and price action as the most important things on my chart.
Indicators will give signals when their criteria is met, but if you had a blank chart, you would only really see support and resistance levels, trend direction and price action...........

I suggest you go a step further and record your thoughts and feelings before, during, and after the trade, not just at the end of the day. And by "record", I mean literally record. Pick up an inexpensive DVR, such as the Olympus 240 (you can get these on eBay for less than $10), and record what's going through your head in real time rather than write it down (which takes your eyes off the screen). Then it's all there to review as you later review the chart.

As for what to include, what you have is good. Consider also at least some of the elements I've included in the Trading Journals posts linked under my name.

Db

 

[JTrader]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have been recording the diary in real-time, but as you say it is a distraction/hazard. The DVR is a good idea.

Today has been a good day.

Stepped on the EURUSD magic carpet @ .3114, and road it down to .3090. It pulled back to .3097 - where i exited.
Quickly realised that this could be an error - as it had fallen below .3100, but not yet recovered above .3100. Therefore i stepped back on and sold 50% of the original trade @ .3097 and took it down to .3061.

It's taken me a while to realise that while i am in doubt as to how to manage my trades with trailing stops and profit targets, this type of staggered exit should help. But at least I've realised this now!

This has given me belief. I've finally managed to catch a big trend!
I saw very similar scenarios present themselves on thursday and friday of last week, but I was stuck on the sidelines, unsure of what would come next.

All in all, +37 whole pips for the day.

With each day I am slowly improving I feel, by being able to see what is happening, what might happen next, perhaps a bit quicker than i could do a few days earlier. I hope that i will continue to gain further clarity as i progress with day to day experience.

The only downside, is that i'm only +37 when I could have been +70 pips .

 

[dbphoenix]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have been recording the diary in real-time, but as you say it is a distraction/hazard. The DVR is a good idea.

Today has been a good day.

Stepped on the EURUSD magic carpet @ .3114, and road it down to .3090. It pulled back to .3097 - where i exited.
Quickly realised that this could be an error - as it had fallen below .3100, but not yet recovered above .3100. Therefore i stepped back on and sold 50% of the original trade @ .3097 and took it down to .3061.

It's taken me a while to realise that while i am in doubt as to how to manage my trades with trailing stops and profit targets, this type of staggered exit should help. But at least I've realised this now!

This has given me belief. I've finally managed to catch a big trend!
I saw very similar scenarios present themselves on thursday and friday of last week, but I was stuck on the sidelines, unsure of what would come next.

All in all, +37 pips for the day.

With each day I am slowly improving I feel, by being able to see what is happening, what might happen next, perhaps a bit quicker than i could do a few days earlier. I hope that i will continue to gain further clarity as i progress with day to day experience.

The only downside, is that i'm only +37 when I could have been +70 pips .

But, again, if you want to make that breakthrough, it's not enough to know what you did or even why you did it but what was going through your head at the time. For example, if there was any hesitation, why? What did you see? What flashed through your mind at that moment? Was there hesitation in price? Did it look as though -- for example -- the bids were being withdrawn? If you went ahead, what did you see that tipped the scale? If you didn't, again, what did you see that stopped you? This sort of thing is next to impossible to recapture even a few moments later, yet it can make all the difference when the time comes to pull the trigger or withdraw.

Db

 

[JTrader]

Yes Db you make another valid point. I had two opportunities to make 7+ pips in the last hour after support at .3050, but didn't take them as a result of the recnt steep fall, i didn't feel confident trading against a recent strong trend. However, there had been a 15 pip pull-up followed by a similar size fall in price, before the first of these two signals. Therefore perhaps I could have taken these long trades knowing that EURUSD had already showed willing to retrace upward. Seeing and experiencing things like this are good as prior I doubt that the outcome i would like to happen can. Therefore that is a reason why i do not take the trade. However, by seeing what would have been a trade unfold positively, i am able to understand further why it did work.

I feel i'm also gaining more insight into S&R in terms of price ranges, and depending upon how the range breaks, why it may be a good idea to exit early or stay positioned.

Also, I think that just the act of actually writing down/recording unfolding events, even if i were never to re-read my notes, will probably help me to store that info in my mind a lot better than if i were to just see it on the chart and then put it to the back of my mind. i agree, the more detail, (thoughts, reasons) the better, when it comes to reflect on this info and gain any value from it...................

 

[andycan]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have been recording the diary in real-time, but as you say it is a distraction/hazard. The DVR is a good idea.

Today has been a good day.

Stepped on the EURUSD magic carpet @ .3114, and road it down to .3090. It pulled back to .3097 - where i exited.
Quickly realised that this could be an error - as it had fallen below .3100, but not yet recovered above .3100. Therefore i stepped back on and sold 50% of the original trade @ .3097 and took it down to .3061.

It's taken me a while to realise that while i am in doubt as to how to manage my trades with trailing stops and profit targets, this type of staggered exit should help. But at least I've realised this now!

This has given me belief. I've finally managed to catch a big trend!
I saw very similar scenarios present themselves on thursday and friday of last week, but I was stuck on the sidelines, unsure of what would come next.

All in all, +37 pips for the day.

With each day I am slowly improving I feel, by being able to see what is happening, what might happen next, perhaps a bit quicker than i could do a few days earlier. I hope that i will continue to gain further clarity as i progress with day to day experience.

The only downside, is that i'm only +37 when I could have been +70 pips .

aaaahhhhh no point dwelling on what could have been nobody gets 100% of the moves nobody
and i know probably one of the best trades there is and he catches maybe 90% lol
the point is you caught the move that was always the point big pat on the back
BTW i have been short since a little over 1.34 i covered at the 1.32 area took half off and left the rest on and now im riding the wave
even if i get stopped im in profit thats is the aim let the profits run
well done mate!!

 

[dbphoenix]

Yes Db you make another valid point. I had to opportunities to make 7+ pips in the last hour after support at .3050, but didn't take them as a result of the recnt steep fall, i didn't feel confident trading against a recent strong trend. However, there had been a 15 pip pull-up followed by a similar size fall in price, before the first of these two signals. Therefore perhaps I could have taken these long trades knowing that EURUSD had already showed willing to retrace upward.

Also, I think that the act of actually writing down/recording unfolding events, even if i were never to re-read my notes, will probably help me to store that info in my mind a lot better than if i were to just see it on the chart and then put it to the back of my mind.

I won't guarantee that it would, but it definitely should. Doing so may also help you determine whether there are certain traps that you regularly fall into, or if there are certain errors that you repeatedly make (though perhaps not repeated often enough to be obvious to you).

Replay can be a help if your charting program offers it. But it's not a substitute for this sort of work. We tend to replay when we're relaxed and ready. But trading ops don't always come along when we're relaxed and ready. Just as often they come along when we're bored and antsy. But, again, replay can be a great help, particularly with regard to desensitization.

Db

 

[JTrader]

I've given myself a small pat on the back, but i start tomorrow back on zero :| .

 

[dbphoenix]

I've given myself a small pat on the back, but i start tomorrow back on zero :| .

Never zero

 

[JTrader]

Hi
for anyone who's interested, I ended up with -4.5 (whole) pips today.
An overall lack of clear/solid/acceptable entry signals from my entry indicator throughout the day.
This score includes an idiotic 7 pip loss at 9am following the Euro news gap. I was aware of it at 8am, but had forgotten about it by 9am
I had this weeks economic calendar (with my notes about the likely importance of each news release from briefing.com) stapled within my diary notepad. This highly annoying error led me to print off another calendar and selotape it to my desk, which I will do every week from now on.
I have also started a proper diary notepad, instead of a collection of sheets of plain A4 paper.
On the positive side, hopefully i have learnt my lesson, and it wasn't following a more important news release.

After yesterdays success, got a bit greedy at 1430, when 1.3150 was broken. Hoping the price would stay below .3150 and fall lower, and without deciding clearly upon when to implement my staggered exit, I ended up taking a 10 pip trailing stop-loss, for only +4 pips profit.

I kind of underestiminated how long the EUR/USD market would remain fast for after 13:30. The speed of momentum only really dropped off at 15:15.........

If only I'd known to go long at 8am and set a 40 pip profit target!

Errors made = hopefully lessons learned.

 

[neil]

At least you admit your errors and seem to keep your losses small. Keep plugging away and you will get there. Keep it simple, keep losses small. Good luck.

 

[dbphoenix]

Hi
for anyone who's interested, I ended up with -4.5 (whole) pips today.
An overall lack of clear/solid/acceptable entry signals from my entry indicator throughout the day.
This score includes an idiotic 7 pip loss at 9am following the Euro news gap. I was aware of it at 8am, but had forgotten about it by 9am
I had this weeks economic calendar (with my notes about the likely importance of each news release from briefing.com) stapled within my diary notepad. This highly annoying error led me to print off another calendar and selotape it to my desk, which I will do every week from now on.
I have also started a proper diary notepad, instead of a collection of sheets of plain A4 paper.
On the positive side, hopefully i have learnt my lesson, and it wasn't following a more important news release.

After yesterdays success, got a bit greedy at 1430, when 1.3150 was broken. Hoping the price would stay below .3150 and fall lower, and without deciding clearly upon when to implement my staggered exit, I ended up taking a 10 pip trailing stop-loss, for only +4 pips profit.

I kind of underestiminated how long the EUR/USD market would remain fast for after 13:30. The speed of momentum only really dropped off at 15:15.........

If only I'd known to go long at 8am and set a 40 pip profit target!

Errors made = hopefully lessons learned.

Even though this isn't a journal, what exactly were the lessons that you learned?

Exactly.

Db

 

[JTrader]

Even this isn't a journal, what exactly were the lessons that you learned?

Exactly.

Db

Hi DB

Lessons of today -

Forgetting about a news item is unnacceptable. The economic news calendar needs to be at hand and staring me in the face at all times, imprinted on my mind.

Within my small timeframe (10 ticks), a 10.5 pip trailing stop-loss is just too big. I didn't have clarity of thought in the moment, while profit was available, and most of it quickly evaporated in a short space......Treat each trade as an individual trade, just because the day has been slow, and not very profitable is no reason to keep the trade open, hoping for more profit. Objectivity is important. Had not managed to quickly spot and identify recent support around 1.3140 during this trade, which would have indicated to me that the price may retrace.

Not to under-estimate how long EURUSD can be fast moving and choppy following a news release (rated B- for importance at briefing.com), today was 1h45mins of busy price movement, after 1330 GMT.

 

[dbphoenix]

Hi DB

Lessons of today -

Forgetting about a news item is unnacceptable. The economic news calendar needs to be at hand and staring me in the face at all times, imprinted on my mind.

Within my small timeframe, a 10.5 pip trailing stop-loss is too big. I didn't have clarity of thought in the moment, while profit was available, and most of it quickly evaporated in a short space......Treat each trade as an individual trade, just because the day has been slow, and not very profitable is no reason to keep the trade open, hoping for more profit. Objectivity is important. Had not managed to quickly spot and identify recent support around 1.3140 during this trade.

Not to under-estimate how long EURUSD can be fast moving and choppy following a news release (rated B- for importance at briefing.com), today was 1h45mins of busy price movement, after 1330 GMT.

Better. Now list them 1-2-3 and review them before each trading day. Determine (a) if you "learned" the wrong lesson and (b) if any of these re-occur.

Db

 

[JTrader]

Hi
+10.5 eurusd pips yesterday.

My indicator entry signals do one thing. Obvious key support and resistance levels (centuries, half centuries)) on the chart are a seperate matter, which sometimes, but not always coincide with my entry signals.

Yesterday, I decided that there are some S/R level breaks, that are potentially rewarding and to be able to trade them effectively, having observed them over the last 2-3 weeks, would improve my overall results.
Because this is not part of my primary strategy, i decided that if and when I do trade these S/R breaks, I will do so using only 50% of my normal trade size. This way, if I am wrong, I do not lose as much, while at the same time, i am also improving my skills.
Although at the moment, i'm not sure how big a part of my trading these momentum driven S/R breaks will become. While it is highly satisfying to be right in these instances, there is nothing more annoying than seeing these S/R levels break, momentum pick up, and just as you get on board the trade, the price reverses .....especially when it is outside of your main trading strategy.
Therefore concentrating on my main strategy for now, and further observation without trading these S/R breaks may be the sensible thing to continue doing for now, until I feel really comfortable with S/R breaks - when i can begin to integrate them into my trading further.
But my instincts on these S/R breaks often turn out to be fairly accurate.........

 

[andycan]

aaaahhhhh no point dwelling on what could have been nobody gets 100% of the moves nobody
and i know probably one of the best trades there is and he catches maybe 90% lol
the point is you caught the move that was always the point big pat on the back
BTW i have been short since a little over 1.34 i covered at the 1.32 area took half off and left the rest on and now im riding the wave
even if i get stopped im in profit thats is the aim let the profits run
well done mate!!

jtrader
i hope you are ridding this one

 

[JTrader]

jtrader
i hope you are ridding this one

Hi Andy -

I wish I was!
unfortunately not though.

I trade off the 10-tick chart primarily.
I'm thinking that letting intraday trades turn to swing trades, oce n a healthy profit is maybe something i can add to my repertoir in the futures maybe.

I display 5,60, 1440 and weekly charts in TS8.1, along with my custom indicator, and the daily has been signalling down since 5/12/6 @ 1.3316.

I'm still hitting my weekly minimum intraday profit expectations/targets though, and have filled 19 pages of A4 in my trading journal in my last four trading days! = hopefully picking up some valuable insights along the way!

Cheers
JT.

 

[andycan]

I wish I was!
unfortunately not though.
I trade off the 10-tick chart primarily.
I'm thinking that letting intraday trades turn to swing trades is something i can add to my repertoir in the futures maybe.

Still hitting my weekly minimum profit targets though!

you are doing fine slowly does it
it will come but dont scalp and then swing if scalping was your initial thought
you will find that you will mislead yourself
the best advice for now i can offer is to enter like a scalper and trade like a swing trader
but always with the correct idiology
so keep stops tight but let them run when its there to run

good luck but luck can be engineered

 

[andycan]

to your additional comments

the process of writting a journal is one of discovery. you right at the moment and then because you have taken the time your mind subconsiously re analyses your thought patterns and slowly you start to develop a 'sense'
eventually you will just put your trades on paper with a caption or a comment
what i found far better was to put my trades on the chart draw the points of entry and exit and see why it won or lost
and where you entry was relative to highs and lows you will gain real perception of how you view the markets in real time