my journal

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wprins

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Apr 13, 2008
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As I let my trades go, and they all turned profitable (despite all my predictions) for yet another day, I felt like Max Taber in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest: the scream of victory, feeling the glory of finally making it.
Good job... keep going!

(But if I may add, as you know, part of being a successful trader is also to take the inevitable losses, but on the terms you prescribed at the beginning of the trade, not by tampering as you said yourself... so, when you do have your next loss, try to feel happy about it, tell yourself you're happy because you got out with a small quantified/limited loss, your system protected you from greater loss etc... )

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 

wprins

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Apr 13, 2008
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I definitely was more comfortable and relaxed when I was constantly losing, and having a constantly small bank account, always near zero.

Seeing success happen makes me afraid of failing all of a sudden.
I submit it's perhaps also partly a fear of the unknown. "What if I succeed, how will I be able to cope with X, Y, Z? What if I then fail again? Etc. etc." So hence, people self sabotage, whether knowingly or unknowingly. "Better the devil you know" as they say.

So, I submit the next challenge is to start getting used to the new feeling of success, so it becomes common place, no big deal, and getting over any feelings of stress/discomfort. In one of your previous posts you also mentioned feeling uncomfortable (a form of fear) in certain situations. To that and to this, I simply want to say: It's OK to feel uncomfortable sometimes, you'll survive, I'm sure of it! (What's the worst that can happen?) It might not be pleasant, but you WILL survive!

And, the more you go through something, the more you'll get used to it, the less unpleasant it will become and before you know it, the discomfort will have disappeared. (Well, this is oversimplifying, but honestly, I can speak from experience that oftentimes one must just grit ones teeth a bit and break throught the fears and phobias and, surprisingly when you do that, they often start fading... )

Have a good wekend.
 
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Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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Good job... keep going!

(But if I may add, as you know, part of being a successful trader is also to take the inevitable losses, but on the terms you prescribed at the beginning of the trade, not by tampering as you said yourself... so, when you do have your next loss, try to feel happy about it, tell yourself you're happy because you got out with a small quantified/limited loss, your system protected you from greater loss etc... )
Yes, thank you. I agree with what you say. It should be easy to remember that I would have caused greater losses myself, having blown out my accounts several times this year alone.
 

Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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I submit it's perhaps also partly a fear of the unknown. "What if I succeed, how will I be able to cope with X, Y, Z? What if I then fail again? Etc. etc." So hence, people self sabotage, whether knowingly or unknowingly. "Better the devil you know" as they say.
This sounds very wise. I don't remember of any people, including myself, analyzing so well the feelings I am or rather I might be experiencing (we never know exactly if we are describing correctly what we are feeling, no matter how good it sounds), regarding "fear of success" and also the feeling of "better the devil you know". We could go as far as saying "fear of happiness", a feeling I am not used to, that might disrupt my life. And also, "fear of the unknown": yes, a hundred percent. I forgot to add these, among the questions I am asking myself: How will I deal with all the tax problems? Will the financial police come and get my computer for noticing that I am making so much money so fast? Will they think I am doing something illegal? Will they come to get my computer with some excuses, just in order to steal my secrets? How will I be able to cope with a different lifestyle? Will people hate me? Will people ask me for money? I will not be normal. Instead, if I hide my wealth, will I feel bad for lying? Will I be able to hide it? And what if I find out that reaching my ultimate goal doesn't bring me any happiness? What if I find out that I simply cannot be happy? It would be terrible, because then I won't even have anything to look forward to. Maybe then it is true that I self-sabotaged so far, and that my persistency in doing discretionary trading was not a form of compulsive gambling, but only a form of compulsive self-sabotaging.

But I didn't do all this work to get towards the unknown (this realization only came recently, with the approaching of success): mostly I did all this work to get away from the known. And so I am hoping that if I won't succeed for my attraction to success, I will at least succeed for my repulsion towards working at the office (the guy playing the radio, having to take orders from others, having to repeat the same tasks every day, having to get up early and at the same time every day, having to shave, having to wear a suit, and other unpleasant things). Just like I didn't find what worked by immediately spotting what worked, but I found what worked by discarding everything that clearly didn't work, because it caused me constant losses, in a process consisting of 12 years riddled with mistakes. I don't know what will make me happy, but I know what makes me unhappy, and like everyone else, I try to get away from it.

So, I submit the next challenge is to start getting used to the new feeling of success, so it becomes common place, no big deal, and getting over any feelings of stress/discomfort. In one of your previous posts you also mentioned feeling uncomfortable (a form of fear) in certain situations. To that and to this, I simply want to say: It's OK to feel uncomfortable sometimes, you'll survive, I'm sure of it! (What's the worst that can happen?) It might not be pleasant, but you WILL survive!
The "worst that can happen"? If you are doing discretionary trading and something (such as the fear of success, or fear of failing exactly when you're about to make it big) makes you uncomfortable, it will cause to lose your balance and lose money. That's the problem with discretionary trading: both wins and losses destabilize you.

But since I just do automated trading (as of lately), yes, most likely I should be able to get used to an increasing bank account, little by little, as it increases. Yet the "problem" is that it increases much faster than one can get used to it. I've seen my account grow to "just" one year of salary in a few months (which to me represents a huge amount of money, since it was always at zero balance), and each time it did that, somehow, I did something to bring it back down (unconsciously): usually it was discretionary trades that I felt would make it grow even faster, but maybe they were discretionary trades to actually bring it back down. Or then again I just got too excited and I screw up as a consequence and in that case we cannot say it was self-sabotage. Sometimes we are not prepared to handle success: it makes us shake and fail. I noticed that some people don't go to the Oscars to receive their awards. Now imagine you were at the Olympics and at the final race, at some shooting competition, and if you are there you're excited because you never got that far, but if you are excited you can't shoot properly. How will you ever succeed? That is why I had to automate everything and let it work all alone, because for me (as I get too excited) this might be the only way I will ever succeed.

And, the more you go through something, the more you'll get used to it, the less unpleasant it will become and before you know it, the discomfort will have disappeared. (Well, this is oversimplifying, but honestly, I can speak from experience that oftentimes one must just grit ones teeth a bit and break throught the fears and phobias and, surprisingly when you do that, they often start fading... )
I hope you are right and that I will discover I can be a different person and lead a different life than I've lead so far. However, right now, I don't see myself as a wealthy man. I can't picture myself as successful or at least as a lasting success. Maybe I'll get used to it, or maybe it won't happen because I'll prevent it from happening. Or maybe it will happen, and I'll still feel unsuccessful no matter how much money I'll make. Or maybe I'll get arrested or all sorts of bad consequences... mostly due to my habit of talking too much.

Another thing that right now comes to my mind is that according to my parents and therefore according to my culture, it is not legitimate/moral to make a living from trading, or as they call it, "gambling". This I am doing is very close to making a living by playing poker. When speaking of this subject with my parents and relatives I've often heard the word "parasitic", as in "parasitic profit". For them, and deep inside for me as well, it's not ok to have a good time doing nothing, while others are breaking their backs. I know it's contradictory, but I haven't cleared this contradiction completely yet.

parasitic - definition of parasitic by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

3. parasitic - of plants or persons; having the nature or habits of a parasite or leech; living off another; "a wealthy class parasitic upon the labor of the masses"...
You see, my mom for example takes these things to extremes, and handles money and saving in a very irrational ways. Here's a true story, not very related, but that tells how in my family they deal with money. We moved out of a rented apartment into another apartment we owned. The thousands books my father owned (part of which he didn't even read, nor take out of the plastic wrap) did not fit into the new apartment, which was set up differently, with a small library. So what did they do? They couldn't throw them away because that would be a sin. They couldn't give them away to a library, because that would be a waste. They couldn't sell them because they wouldn't be able to possibly find someone wanting to buy all of them. They decided to keep them or rather, for 3 years, they were paralyzed and didn't get rid of them. Where did they keep them? In the old apartment, while already living in the new owned apartment. They paid thousands of euros in order to rent an apartment for the only purpose of keeping some books in there. Eventually they gave them to a library for free, after 3 years. But it took the secretary's initiative to do this (after I had been telling her for years), because they would never have done it themselves. But they didn't feel stupid, because it is a sin to throw away books, but it's ok to see your bank account go to zero. They are just numbers changing. There's no sin in it. It's not ok to throw away some piece of bread for my mom, or some spaghetti we didn't eat. It is ok to empty your bank account. Money is bad. You don't throw food away, ever. It's the principle that counts. So, this family of mine and how I was raised with regards to money might be yet another one of the subconscious problems that are up against my new lifestyle (whether it will happen or not).

And for today my psychoanalysis session is over, and I saved another 100 dollars that I didn't pay to a psychiatrist. Thanks to everyone for listening to me.
 
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Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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Here I am, on a Saturday afternoon, as usual working on my systems. Now taking a break for another psychoanalysis session.

I am realizing that a brain can only take so much reasoning in its lifetime. But most of all, it can only take a given amount of reasoning per year, before overheating and decreasing its performance. I've worked on excel every day at work, all day long (or similar). Then I'd come home and work on excel for the rest of the day. Well, my brain is starting to get tired of it. It requires break after 30 minutes of work now, whereas in the past I could go on all day long, regardless of how much work I was doing. Also, the excel sheet is getting more and more complicated.

Conclusion: I don't feel like I will be able to handle more than 4 hours of work per day at the bank beginning in January. I should get on 4-hour part-time immediately, but I feel it's a bit daring, and a bold move in front of the whole department, because it's like saying I don't care about my salary anymore, and I can't afford to say that at this stage, with a risk capital of just a few thousands. When I'll have a risk capital of nearly 100 thousands, which is still a distant dream, I will definitely request the 4-hour part-time, and if they do not give it to me, I will ask for a year off. If I don't get that either, then I won't quit, because it'd still be unsafe. I will probably start slacking off, simply not to wear myself out. To preserve my reasoning capability. They squeezed me like a lemon, and I let them do it because I felt it was my duty and my interest, but now I feel neither.

In the same way, I got in touch with a few friends telling them that I am available to meet them beginning next weekend, because I need to stop staring at my computer screen for a few weeks at least. Because as a result of work at the office and at home, I've been wearing myself off and I'm going cuckoo.

cuckoo - definition of cuckoo by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

YouTube - One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest (The Movie) Part 14

I will break free like Chief Bromden at the end of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, by throwing a sink through a window at my office. And all my colleagues will come and see me leaving, and some of them will scream with joy like Max Taber, because they were rooting for me (that's why they ask me all the time how my trading is going, and when I tell them, their eyes light up with excitement).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Flew_Over_the_Cuckoo's_Nest_(novel)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Flew_Over_the_Cuckoo's_Nest_(film)
 
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Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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Here I am, on a Sunday morning, working on trading systems again. And as usual I felt the need for a psychoanalytic break on this journal, which teaches me to think, teaches me English, and lets me talk for free, unlike psychiatrists (and I can do it from home).

Yesterday I told my father about my progress and as usual he didn't speak a word. I hope I will make millions before he dies (if he ever does, because I suspect he's immortal), just so I can see if he ever will tell me "wow, I am impressed" or at least "oh, interesting" or "oh, tell me about it". I guess I "owe" him to his *******ness if I have gotten so good at what I am doing, but also if I obsess about doing things so well as to impress the world each time I do anything. One example is that I started this journal and pretty soon I was counting the posts and the views trying to break some record (top 100, top 50, top 25...). If I go up the stairs I will also try to break some record, even at work. I let people go into the elevator and let them see how I can get to the third floor on foot before they do with the elevator.

I am basically sick and this all thanks to my dad, and the effort he instilled in me to be ever looking for his approval, which comes in the form of "silence" (the compliment is that he doesn't tell you "you suck") and only once you've won a gold medal at the olympics. But the good thing is that thanks to this I may be able to quit my job before regular retirement. The bad thing is that I've never been able to enjoy anything in my life, pretty much. Once I'll retire and live at the house by the sea, will I be satisfied? I hope so.
 

barjon

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May 6, 2003
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Here I am, on a Sunday morning, working on trading systems again. And as usual I felt the need for a psychoanalytic break on this journal, which teaches me to think, teaches me English, and lets me talk for free, unlike psychiatrists (and I can do it from home).

Yesterday I told my father about my progress and as usual he didn't speak a word. I hope I will make millions before he dies (if he ever does, because I suspect he's immortal), just so I can see if he ever will tell me "wow, I am impressed" or at least "oh, interesting" or "oh, tell me about it". I guess I "owe" him to his *******ness if I have gotten so good at what I am doing, but also if I obsess about doing things so well as to impress the world each time I do anything. One example is that I started this journal and pretty soon I was counting the posts and the views trying to break some record (top 100, top 50, top 25...). If I go up the stairs I will also try to break some record, even at work. I let people go into the elevator and let them see how I can get to the third floor on foot before they do with the elevator.

I am basically sick and this all thanks to my dad, and the effort he instilled in me to be ever looking for his approval, which comes in the form of "silence" (the compliment is that he doesn't tell you "you suck") and only once you've won a gold medal at the olympics. But the good thing is that thanks to this I may be able to quit my job before regular retirement. The bad thing is that I've never been able to enjoy anything in my life, pretty much. Once I'll retire and live at the house by the sea, will I be satisfied? I hope so.
travis

To some extent, I'm one of those fathers and I can tell you one thing - inside he's as proud as hell of you. Ever wondered what you'd be like if he'd heaped praise on you at every opportunity - maybe he's got you tabbed right and knows that your road to success is to keep you under constant challenge.

Cheers

jon
 

Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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Well, thanks, I get your point but in educating children you can also use the carrot and not just the stick. It's known to work.

With just the stick, you may create perfectionists that will always be unhappy no matter what they achieve. And that happens if you are lucky, otherwise you create criminals. He doesn't seem very happy either, nor serene, and he achieved a lot. Yet he always complains and he's always negative. What is the point of life then? The point of life is having a good time (or at least not having a bad time) and not continuously trying to break some record. He belongs in the Guinness Book of World Records, with the other sick maniacs, like the guy with 5000 piercings.

He just left. And he said "Bye, I am going to church". And I wondered to myself: how does a man like that go to church? Even when he's alone and nobody would find out if he didn't go? I knew he went to church every Sunday but I somehow always assumed it was for a show, when he was going in his hometown and with my mom, so everyone could see them. In truth, he's a real *******, and I can't see how he actually understood one word of the Gospel. But the good news is that he left.

He created an intellectual athlete, that's what I am. Continuously trying to excel, to show off, to learn, and constantly unhappy, and despising everyone else who seems superficial, stupid, or disorderly. An unhappy perfectionist maniac, a control freak, with all the traits of NPD.
 
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barjon

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ok, I get your point too, but it's horses for courses. Finding the right balance twixt stick and carrot for your particular child and what makes him or her tick isn't easy and you're quite likely to overdo it, particularly if one side appeals to your own character.

btw don't follow the old man's negativity by being constantly negative about yourself. There's a lot of positives in there :)

cheers

jon
 

Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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Horses for courses - Idiom Definition - UsingEnglish.com

I see. Well, from what I found out by talking to people with similar problems, in many families there is one parent who is like this, and often he/she passed it on to one of the children. Other times though this doesn't happen and you have two parents who are both stick and carrot parent, who are able to tell their children "good job" (instead of "you could have done better"). Other times you have the negative parent and yet you don't become negative. My combination is that I have a "dependent" mother and a NPD father, who passed it on to me. To be clear, my father and I both regard my mom as stupid and disorderly. He tells her "don't talk nonsense" several times a day and treats her like a child. I can't defend her first of all because she didn't defend me from him, ever. Second of all, because I really think she's stupid. I don't call her stupid though, because that would make her act more stupid. He does, regardless of this. Man, this guy is really a sick person, much more sick than me. But society regards him as a successful person, so everything is forgiven to him, because that's what happens in society. Today you're Adolf Hitler, a genius and world leader. Tomorrow you lose the war, and you are a monster. If you are successful, everything is forgiven to you (look at Berlusconi, too: a crook who is currently a prime minister). Maybe that's why my dad became successful, so he would be forgiven for being a sick person. Instead of changing and becoming a healthy person and live happily like everyone else, you decide to stay sick and become successful so people will accept you as you are. The only problem is that if you got healthy, you'd get a shot at being happy, whereas no matter how successful you get, if you are sick, you're not going to be happy, so getting successful is a waste of time. Personally, I want to be successful and then get healthy, too. But I wonder if I'll manage, because then people will let me have my way and that will encourage my manias. I feel like I am very prone to having a life similar to that of Howard Hughes as portrayed in The Aviator.
 
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Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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Still working and working... On and on... But I am getting increasingly tired. To the point that I can only work for 5 minutes before having to take a break. Of course I am working on vba code, written very small, and I need absolute focus, or my work is not only worthless but dangerous. I cannot make any mistakes.

I was dreaming of the future once again, and planning exactly how I should quit my job, a little at a time. Before leaving I'll be on a 4-hour part-time schedule for six months. So when I'll finally leave people won't notice very much. Also they will be relying on me gradually less, and I won't be remembered as someone who put them in trouble for suddenly leaving. But that will also give me the security needed and at the same time it will decrease the stress from work.
 

Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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Here's a bunch of perfectionists, people who, just like me, focus on things obsessively, until they get them right. I tend to appreciate these people more than others, and I notice when I come across them. Others, the superficial crowd, won't even notice if someone is doing something well or not, and won't even remember the title of their favorite movie, because they don't have one. They don't appreciate things as deeply.

YouTube - 28 Days Later Theme Song - Bass Cover

YouTube - Biotech - In a heartbeat

YouTube - John Murphy - In the House In a Heartbeat

28 Days Later: The Soundtrack Album - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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GladiatorX

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Jun 7, 2009
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travis

To some extent, I'm one of those fathers and I can tell you one thing - inside he's as proud as hell of you. Ever wondered what you'd be like if he'd heaped praise on you at every opportunity - maybe he's got you tabbed right and knows that your road to success is to keep you under constant challenge.

Cheers

jon
Yes; But when someones motivation is to impress someone who cannot be impressed; what you percieve as success can never be achieved by them and all that creates is emotions of dis-satisfaction and unhappiness.
I think if i had gotten heaps of praise; i would be much happer and more self-accepting rather than trying to get approval from people all the time... I could relax alot more and focus on doing what i want to do, rather than focus on what others want me to do to try get there praise...
I've always found, when my dad didn't give me praise; It made me nervous to do something i knew he would be judgemental about and it made me perform significantly worse.

I'm the same now though; totally negative... Doesn't matter how well someone performs i will always find the negative and also now, if someone praises me i cannot except it, i feel embarrased or something; like that i don't deserve it because i haven't achieved what i want and therefore i don't deserve it.

Gladiator x

I've always had the same approach to things; And its bad. If i have an aim or i want to achieve something i won't do anything else until i've done it... Like trading, when i started - I didn't really sleep or eat or work out or go jogging or go out because i was so dedicated to do well; If i want to achieve something its best to spend all my time on it anyway... Because i don't give myself a break, i'm very self-punishing and i decided i would work like a slave until i did it... This is negative for my feelings and positive for my finance but ultimately it just creates unhappiness. In my mind; if i couldn't do trading, i didn't deserve to do anything but work.

Even now; after achieving what i set out to do when i started trading... I still work 24/7 because i am not at the stage where i am recieving the benefits i AIMED/THOUGHT i would get from it... So i just continue :) Like; No1 really cares that i've worked so hard, no1 really cares about the money, so i feel disappointed and therefore as punishment for not being happy, i will work myself until i deserve praise and happiness.
 
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Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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travis

To some extent, I'm one of those fathers and I can tell you one thing - inside he's as proud as hell of you. Ever wondered what you'd be like if he'd heaped praise on you at every opportunity - maybe he's got you tabbed right and knows that your road to success is to keep you under constant challenge.

Cheers

jon
I forgot to comment on this you said (in bold). You're right and that's what everyone tells me: that he says great things about me. But this is not effective. He treated me like garbage my whole life and I strongly resent him for that (I don't think you can be as bad as him, by the things you write here). This educational method in my opinion does not work at all, because I strongly resented him my whole life. I didn't enjoy growing up with "the great santini", and I don't think it was necessary to ruin my life and make me unhappy in order to make develop attention for detail, depth, overachieving tendencies (which are not necessarily good in themselves). Anyway, the fact of the matter is that even now I find his company unpleasant and I avoid him. He puts in a bad mood just if I see him. If he talks it's worse. He's 100% control freak, and he passed it on to me. Now, of course, being control freak is just perfect for creating automated trading systems, because you can't afford any mistakes, so it definitely helps to be constantly double-checking on everything.
 
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Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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Wow, I was eating dinner. My dad came in the room and he looked like he wanted to talk, so we talked. He hardly managed to let me talk and focus on what I had to say, and only because that's what I specifically asked. He kept on going back to talking about his job, no matter what I said - just like he did all his life. I managed to make him stay on my topic for 25% of the time, with great efforts. Regardless, throughout the time I was talking about MY problems, he didn't say a word, as if he wasn't interested. Talking to him was like talking to a wall, as usual. very disappointing experience, once again. Needless to say, this has been the only outcome of any conversation with my dad, throughout my life. Luckily tonight he's going on a business trip for a few days. Great, because it will take me a few days to recover from this non-conversation I had with him.

What a sick guy - he even made me scratch my head with frustration throughout my talk with him. How much stress does it take for someone to be scratching his head while he's standing up? A lot. He does this every time: just comes into the room and commands your attention, and doesn't let you off until he's done talking and lecturing about whatever he feels like talking about, then he says he has to run because he has something else to do. He basically uses me for personal satisfaction in lecturing someone and showing off his knowledge, as if I were one of his students. I got into the habit of locking myself up in my room when he's around, with music on, so I don't even hear if he tries to lure me out of my room for one of these unpleasant lectures... sick maniac.

I never missed my dad in my life. Ever. Not one day. Not one moment. I haven't spent one day of my life, since the age of 12, thinking how much I dislike him, and most days of my life, I've told someone how much I dislike him. But he's not a real problem - because I efficiently avoided him since the age of 18. First of all by not being around, and second of all by avoiding him when we're in the same house. Useless to give him more opportunities, because it's a hopeless case. It's like a madman, except that he's not in an asylum, because he's successful, a successful NPD and control freak, so everyone says how great a man he is, instead of telling him to go see a psychiatrist. Basically I am the only one who ever made him understand that I think he's the one who has problems and that certainly I do not admire him, like everyone else does (or pretend to, in order to get alone with him). Sick dangerous *******. There, now I am in a bad mood again, all thanks to him.

I've felt more affection on this thread from you guys than in my lifetime from this person who happens to be my father. I feel much closer and attached to anyone who posted here than to my father. Gotta remember to avoid him like hell the next time he's around. What a ****ty experience, again. I gotta remember stuff like that.
 
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Yamato

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Mar 22, 2003
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Then there's the problem D.L.. This guy, a friend of mine, who used to be good because he brought women, but he at the same time made me pay for everyone. He always had the deficiency of being hyperactive, and as I got older, I stopped being able to bear him. Now I got in touch with him a few days ago, and now he wants to see me on a regular basis again, but I don't, and yet I don't want to offend him by telling him that he stresses me out, because this is how he is - he stresses everyone out. He is obnoxious as anyone can be. Yet another problem on my endless list of complaints.
 
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