Missing girl and Immigration

[Gumping]

Hi guys.

I've been reading these reports on this poor girl, Shannon Matthews. She goes missing and is found safe. Hallelujah! Great news!

Then we find out that she was kidnapped by her stepdad's uncle, her stepdad has been arrested for child porn, her mother has been arrested for perverting the course of justice and people are conjecturing that they made the whole abduction thing up!

Then you read that Shannon is this woman's seventh child - from five different fathers....

And people in this country worry about IMMIGRATION?!?

Do I have a suggestion on how to prevent this sort of thing? Well for me, when soul-searching is required to come up with solutions I generally ask myself this:

What would Bill Hicks say......

**warning for the easily offended - contains colorful language**

.....

YouTube - Bill Hicks - Confession Time

 

[trendie]

I dont understand the immigration angle.

People are people wherever they come from, and location has no bearing on their propensity for stupidity.

I am working on a Special Theory of Human Stupidity, which revolves around the event-horizons of their back-sides.
This theory is a follow-up on my famous General Theory of Human Ineptitude.

I love people. I really do.

 

[Gumping]

Thanks for the edit - I forgot to mention that Bill Hicks can...errr....offend people.

As for immigration, I was just kind of implying that our intrepid heroes here were not immigrants and were all home-grown.

 

[Splitlink]

Hi guys.

I've been reading these reports on this poor girl, Shannon Matthews. She goes missing and is found safe. Hallelujah! Great news!

Then we find out that she was kidnapped by her stepdad's uncle, her stepdad has been arrested for child porn, her mother has been arrested for perverting the course of justice and people are conjecturing that they made the whole abduction thing up!

Then you read that Shannon is this woman's seventh child - from five different fathers....

And people in this country worry about IMMIGRATION?!?

Do I have a suggestion on how to prevent this sort of thing? Well for me, when soul-searching is required to come up with solutions I generally ask myself this:

What would Bill Hicks say......

**warning for the easily offended - contains colorful language**

.....

YouTube - Bill Hicks - Confession Time

From the 20 seconds of what I heard from that video, I'd say that Bill Hicks is part of the problem.

 

[trendie]

From the 20 seconds of what I heard from that video, I'd say that Bill Hicks is part of the problem.

If you believe that, you wont much care for Lewis Black!

(Bill Hicks was a genius.)

 

[Atilla]

From the 20 seconds of what I heard from that video, I'd say that Bill Hicks is part of the problem.

He has got a point though!

People who CAN afford to have children and those who are in stable (married) relationships DON'T have many children.

People who CAN'T afford to have children or who are not attached DO em by the dozens.

Hence, social factors are geared towards collapse of the nuclear family and eventually what is termed society.

Society is now no longer based on the units of an extended or even nuclear family.

Functions of family were to breed, cloth, protect, educate and nourish and look after as well as to reproduce.

These days we have;

Social system to look after us
Police force to protect us
Hospitals to look after us
Schools to educate us
Reproduce - er infertility clinics can do this for us too...

In fact we don't even effing need parents anymore because lesbions and homosexuals can even have children as they constitute stable families along with cohabitants. This is achieved by way or artficial insemination. Some may call it special delivery. Ofcourse the premise these technologies were developed to help those married couples who were infertile. Now days you can even select the sex and dna constitution of your baby. Freaky hollywood stars who can have their own even adopt a variety from the four corners of the world.

What is left for any individual to do other than screw around and maximise their own gratification with no consequence on anything else they may have any bearing or affect on.

All the mamby bamby soft socialigists of the 70s are seeing the products of their geniouses. No corporal punishment at schools.

People need social interaction so if you don't have a family you have a gang that becomes your family.

Your allegiance is not to your family, race, tribe or clan but to your gang.

People worship and aspire to achieve material gains as what defines their level of ability in society not their conduct, integrity or honour.

If we think it's bad now, just imagine the kids of the yobs tomorrow.

 

[Gumping]

Cracking commentary Atilla!

I think this is part of the point. I bought a house on a council estate last year since I was a first time buyer, and it was the only place I could afford to live. My house is the only privately owned house in the immediate area, and let's think: next door is the family with the guy who is married to a woman with two kids, he hasn't seen his own kids in about 10 years, their 13 yr old daughter dresses like a slut and hangs around at nightclubs, and the 15 yr old son hasn't gone to school for a single day the entire time we've lived there (13 months). They have 4 cars.
Across the street is a couple roughly my age. The woman has 3 kids from 3 marriages, the youngest daughter is the son of the current husband. They both moved out about 2 months ago and are separated. The woman cited finances as a reason - and also admitted to spending around £60 every 2 weeks on manicures. She thought her husband was out of order to favour his own daughter over her other two. They have 3 cars and dress in designer gear. He once told me he gets his flip-flops imported from the USA at a cost of about 50 quid a pair (to me they look exactly like the really cheap ones you can buy in the supermarket). Watching them walk around is like watching a fashion parade.
Next to them is the woman who lives on her own with her 23-yr old son who hasn't been to work the entire time we've been there, and who stands at the window gawping at us all the time, and has a complete lack of social skills and hence has not even mustered a hello in the entire time we've been there.
Then there's the woman with two toddlers, who makes them walk 10 yards behind her on the street and tells them not to call her mummy on the street. Every time we see her walk past, there is a different guy trudging along beside her. The kids: they are called (I swear this is the truth!) Brad....... and Pitt.
Then there's the middle-aged guy who works cash-in-hand as a £3/hr childminder. His sole strategy towards looking after them appears to be to sit there and watch them wreck the neighbourhood. Of course he works for cash and is not accredited, but the parents of the kids who go there don't care about that - as long as he's cheap!

Needless to say, these are all being supported by our lovely government. At least one of them does cash-in-hand work too.

Now since i'm a science PhD, I get a bee in my bonnet about things involvong the way the government funds science etc - view this comment:

"It's quite clear to us that we do need to get better economic impact from the stuff that we invest in. It's taxpayers' money, and taxpayers have a right to a return from it. You won't have innovation without the science - but equally people have to face the fact that you won't get pure science unless you also get the value out of it and get the innovation, too."

Keith Mason, chief executive of the STFC (Science and Technology Facilities Council) when being asked about funding cuts.

Nobody's ever asked any of the above-mentioned f**kers to contribute to the economy have they?!?

 

[Crap Buddist]

Thought for the day. Give n ye shall receive ?

If you catch your neighbour stealing your TV ask him if they need the dvd player to go with it & give it (if they do) for isn't your neighbours need greater than yours ?

Great CB now what the ****s in it for me ? A thousand blessings and space for that fish tank you've always wanted my son..... God Bless.

Man. FUNK THIS ,GET A JOB!!!

God likes humour. :?:

 

[Atilla]

If you catch your neighbour stealing your TV ask him if they need the dvd player to go with it & give it (if they do) for isn't your neighbours need greater than yours ?

Great CB now what the ****s in it for me ? A thousand blessings and space for that fish tank you've always wanted my son..... God Bless.

Man. FUNK THIS ,GET A JOB!!!

God likes humour. :?:

70s mumbo jumbo imo. If you get slapped on your cheek why not offer the other as well.

Nice one...

 

[Gumping]

70s mumbo jumbo imo. If you get slapped on your cheek why not offer the other as well.

Nice one...

A very 70's quote. Maybe we should update it for the youth of today:

'If your lung gets perforated by a flick-knife, offer the other lung' :smart:

 

[0007]

This thread is a sad comment on today's society. Justice Coleridge put his finger on it here BBC NEWS | UK | Families in meltdown, judge says - note the weasel words from the spokeswoman for the Department for Children, Families and Schools. Like Gordo, she's in denial.

 

[Atilla]

This thread is a sad comment on today's society. Justice Coleridge put his finger on it here BBC NEWS | UK | Families in meltdown, judge says - note the weasel words from the spokeswoman for the Department for Children, Families and Schools. Like Gordo, she's in denial.

We were in Worthing again over the weekend. In the town centre near the sea front they had High School Musical theme on and kids ranging from todlers to 14/15 were getting hip with it. Singing and dancing in public in a shopping area kind of setup.

However, very few places cater for children or family life. Cars dominate as well as grumpy grown ups too busy with their own lives to really slow down and just look around to the real joys of life.

Look how many establishments there are for entertaining young singles compared to familys. Young people don't even know how to behave in front of children. Swearing and snogging. Disgusting *******s!!! Do they think??? So crass and tasteless. If I were to say anything no doubt I'd be kicked into a vegetable.

Capitalism I reckon is killing the family.

Everything in capitalism is geared towards consumption and production.

Similarly, socialists at the other extreme have got their policies all wrong.

In the name of freedom democracy and human rights humanity has gone ape sh1t imo.

Peadophile offenders have better and more human rights than children. What does that flucking tell you about our society.

No effing common sense.

Aspect of rotten policies everywhere.

Reason people commit suicide when they leave prison or the army is because they have routine and disclipline and they know exactly what their purpose is and where they stand. If they step out of line some one sets them straight. Same applies to youngsters in gangs. Because there are rules and you know where you are in the pecking order and what you need to do to rise.

Very simple and effective.

The moment an individual breaks that chain and is suddelntly given freedom to do what ever they like they no longer know the boundaries or where they are and they lose the plot.

This is what we have now. People work get money and they think they have freedom and know what they want but they lose the plot.

Not everyone is the same. Hence those who go astray need to be pointed in the right direction. Stick and Carrot for the mule that won't budge is the recipee as far as I'm concerned.

Society has engineered us all to chase status in the shape of wealth and material gains. Hollywood dresses up crooks and villains who rob and steal as heros. Even better if you have sh1t attitudes and take no lip from anyone.

Some people talk about the government and schools failing children. What a load of tosh. It's freaking parents (mums and dads) failing children no doubt about it. I wish people would get real. All our apsirations (capitalistic aspirations) are engineered to lead us astray.

Even IT which is suppose to simplify life is a source of stress to most people. A whole army of people trained to deliver a service to a bunch of people who don't really need any of it. Half the popullation struggles with it. The other half doesn't know why they sit in front of it twiddling their thumbs whislt stuffing their faces.

Well it's bed time now I think this is enough of a weekend rant.

Enjoy all that you do everyone... :clap: Things can and will only get much worse...

 

[nine]

Atilla,

Consider this. The 20th century was supposedly the triumph of democracy. Wrong.

It was the triumph of consumerism. Consumption beat communism, it beat the church of england, it thrashed catholicism to within an inch of its life in the west, and it is the true enemy of islam.

Capitalism isn't the problem you are describing above. Capitalism is just the least worst way of running an economy (needs a bit of policing occasionally to stop it going too far, but too much policing is as bad as none). Consumerism is the "evil"; capitalism is just a tool for efficiency and efficacy. Neither society nor capitalism engineered us to chase the consumer good, that was advertising, affluence, and an attitude that consumption is good for the country (note GBush after 911). IMHO.


Edit: Some of the issues you describe are the swing of liberalism/conservatism a long way to the individual/liberal from conservative/group.

 

[Splitlink]

We were in Worthing again over the weekend. In the town centre near the sea front they had High School Musical theme on and kids ranging from todlers to 14/15 were getting hip with it. Singing and dancing in public in a shopping area kind of setup.

However, very few places cater for children or family life. Cars dominate as well as grumpy grown ups too busy with their own lives to really slow down and just look around to the real joys of life.

Look how many establishments there are for entertaining young singles compared to familys. Young people don't even know how to behave in front of children. Swearing and snogging. Disgusting *******s!!! Do they think??? So crass and tasteless. If I were to say anything no doubt I'd be kicked into a vegetable.

Capitalism I reckon is killing the family.

Everything in capitalism is geared towards consumption and production.

Similarly, socialists at the other extreme have got their policies all wrong.

In the name of freedom democracy and human rights humanity has gone ape sh1t imo.

Peadophile offenders have better and more human rights than children. What does that flucking tell you about our society.

No effing common sense.

Aspect of rotten policies everywhere.

Reason people commit suicide when they leave prison or the army is because they have routine and disclipline and they know exactly what their purpose is and where they stand. If they step out of line some one sets them straight. Same applies to youngsters in gangs. Because there are rules and you know where you are in the pecking order and what you need to do to rise.

Very simple and effective.

The moment an individual breaks that chain and is suddelntly given freedom to do what ever they like they no longer know the boundaries or where they are and they lose the plot.

This is what we have now. People work get money and they think they have freedom and know what they want but they lose the plot.

Not everyone is the same. Hence those who go astray need to be pointed in the right direction. Stick and Carrot for the mule that won't budge is the recipee as far as I'm concerned.

Society has engineered us all to chase status in the shape of wealth and material gains. Hollywood dresses up crooks and villains who rob and steal as heros. Even better if you have sh1t attitudes and take no lip from anyone.

Some people talk about the government and schools failing children. What a load of tosh. It's freaking parents (mums and dads) failing children no doubt about it. I wish people would get real. All our apsirations (capitalistic aspirations) are engineered to lead us astray.

Even IT which is suppose to simplify life is a source of stress to most people. A whole army of people trained to deliver a service to a bunch of people who don't really need any of it. Half the popullation struggles with it. The other half doesn't know why they sit in front of it twiddling their thumbs whislt stuffing their faces.

Well it's bed time now I think this is enough of a weekend rant.

Enjoy all that you do everyone... :clap: Things can and will only get much worse...

Just a quick view.

I disapproveof Bill Hicks, and those like him, precisely for the example that he gives to those who appreciate his, so-called, humour.

The act has to be cleaned up, not at the teenagers level, but at the elders level---those who give an example to the young.

Call it consumerism, or whatever. I call it something related, perhaps, another phrase to describe the same thing. Market forces. If there is a market for a product, then the product will be supplied. Bill Hicks & Co supplies what the market wants for entertainment but this language is contagious and the young, including kiddies, will pick it up so quickly.

I have chidren of 40 years of age. They are very modern bud they do not use profanity in their speech. I am an ex-sailor. I'm used to all that vocabulary, but I left it aboard when I went on leave. There's a place for everything. The airwaves are not the place.

Split

 

[Crap Buddist]

Some people talk about the government and schools failing children. What a load of tosh. It's freaking parents (mums and dads) failing children no doubt about it. I wish people would get real. All our apsirations (capitalistic aspirations) are engineered to lead us astray.

Perhaps a lot of this is due to mums not wanting to be at home, home making and taking a proactive interest in nurturing their own seedlings for the future.?

Sort of the mega selfish generation. ME. MY JOB, MY LIFE. My KIDS? ohh yeah.. KIDS.

OK mums want the career fair enough, or is it ? should or is it a mums role to bring up the young? or ok so women want the career and all that glory, give it to them, what about men staying up home, giving up their careers (so women can play at that) and men take up the responsibility of bringing up their children?

To be honest I've thought about the mums n careers V children and i cant figure out how come they see it as more rewarding doing a job or career over their own children ?
seems bonkers, which is why I think it wont take men too long to see the massive reward and sense of achievment n pride when bringing up the kids ?

Maybe I'm over simplifying a complex problem but , see my point ? people need to stop chasing dollars, see value in their own next generation, the next seeds to carry on.. theres nothing more important than that is there? ooppss better keep n eye on these GBPJPY's , reverse to go long soonish

ta ta.....

 

[Splitlink]

Perhaps a lot of this id due to mums not wanting to be at home, home making and taking a proactive interest in nurturing their own seedlings for the future.?

Sort of the mega selfish generation. ME. MY JOB, MY LIFE. My KIDS? ohh yeah.. KIDS.

OK mums want the career fair enough, or is it ? should or is it a mums role to bring up the young? or ok so women want the career and all that glory, give it to them, what about men staying up home, giving up their careers (so women can play at that) and men take up the responsibility of bringing up their children?

To be honest I've thought about the mums n careers V children and i cant figure out how come they see it as more rewarding doing a job or career over their own children ?
seems bonkers, which is why I think it wont take men too long to see the massive reward and sense of achievment n pride when bringing up the kids ?

Maybe I'm over simplifying a complex problem but , see my point ? people need to stop chasing dollars, see value in their own next generation, the next seeds to carry on.. theres nothing more important than that is there? ooppss better keep n eye on these GBPJPY's , reverse to go long soonish

ta ta.....

There's no doubt that this a large part of the problem but, there again, what do some of the parents do on their days off and how do they behave when they are at home? How much spare time do they spend with their kids?

What I said before is true, too. This Bill Hickens is allowed into people's homes via television and people laugh at him!

Whatever, we have to live with it. It's 2008!

 

[0007]

Perhaps a lot of this is due to mums not wanting to be at home, home making and taking a proactive interest in nurturing their own seedlings for the future.?

Sort of the mega selfish generation. ME. MY JOB, MY LIFE. My KIDS? ohh yeah.. KIDS.

OK mums want the career fair enough, or is it ? should or is it a mums role to bring up the young? or ok so women want the career and all that glory, give it to them, what about men staying up home, giving up their careers (so women can play at that) and men take up the responsibility of bringing up their children?

To be honest I've thought about the mums n careers V children and i cant figure out how come they see it as more rewarding doing a job or career over their own children ?
seems bonkers, which is why I think it wont take men too long to see the massive reward and sense of achievment n pride when bringing up the kids ?

Maybe I'm over simplifying a complex problem but , see my point ? people need to stop chasing dollars, see value in their own next generation, the next seeds to carry on.. theres nothing more important than that is there? ooppss better keep n eye on these GBPJPY's , reverse to go long soonish

ta ta.....

As you say, parents not being at home has a lot to do with it. One of the "benefits" of consumerism is that for most ordinary families both parents have to work to sustain what is considered to be a suitable lifestyle - the effect on family life is both predictable and inevitable. I know families where they've made the choice to keep one parent at home and accepted the consequent "disadvantages". As far as i can see, the real quality of life benefits are well worth it. But then, I'm biased: I was fortunate enough to be able to do that back in the 70s when it was a lot more common than it is today.

People have fallen victim to consumerism - many because they are not bright enough to work out that the glitter is just that. This has been encouraged by the Snake Oil salesmen who prey on the stupid, greedy and ignorant - not unlike present day bankers who now want the very people they preyed upon (ie you & me) to bail them out. Amazing!

I feel sorry for those families where both parents are forced to work just to exist. And despite what the Fascist Daily (aka Daily Mail, - and some of its editorials do make sense) - not all people on benefits are on the make.

Consumerism on the whole has not been beneficial - it's given us more but we end up with less. What's the answer? I don't know. But like the markets, planets and economies it all works in cycles and it seems at the moment we are in a downtrend. It's always useful to compare - look at Victorian society: drug-ridden, footpads and thugs on the streets, poverty but creeping consumerism for many and airs of "respectability" for the select few. Even G&S's Pirates of Penzance preferred piracy to Victorian respectability!

Maybe in the West we are descending into decadence - it finished the Romans didn't it?