MF Global Spreads has ceased to be

[Hirose Financial UK]

Hirose, Thank you, though I was really asking how practically an independent body could micro-manage a check on a broker's movement of funds. Yes, the MF customers certainly were laundered - or more like bleached white!

lplate - indeed a good point - it is vertually impossible if the broker doesnt follow the rules. Interestingly, many 'now consultants' that grew up in the FSA used to spend a significant part of their lives in the offices of companies they were overseeing, building up relationships and proactively helping companies. This allowed for good flow of information so if something was wrong it could be fixed. Now it is the book thrown at the company and a fine. I know what regime works best.

 

[cookie]

cookie

Just read your idiotic post. You will be pleased to note that I am getting £50k this week from FSPC. Just been confirmed to me and the other £11k will shortly be with me from KPMG.

We are still hoping that you will enlighten us as to how we also might acheive such a positive result and so quickly. Or is the FSPC a figment of your imagination ????

 

[Traduk]

We are still hoping that you will enlighten us as to how we also might acheive such a positive result and so quickly. Or is the FSPC a figment of your imagination ????

I am also interested because on Saturday I received the agreement forms from KPMG which is now signed and returned.

No problems at all with the amount but the initial payment is 26 cents on the dollar converted in GBP and based on valuation in USD at time of declaration of bankruptcy.

I have been dealt with and it looks as though will be continued to be dealt with exactly in accordance with the format laid of months ago. If there is one procedure and somebody has found another seemingly better route I am interested in how they have managed something which I think is not possible. Both KPMG and FSCS have told me that legal and interactive protocols have to be rigidly adhered to and no deviation is possible.

 

[cookie]

Exactly Trad however I am still willing to listen to Howards advice on how to get £60k back in a week !!!

Howard when you have cleared funds safe back in your account perhaps you will enlighten us as to your method of recovery.

 

[SpreadBeta]

Cookie, (assuming its the same Howard)...follow this link
Forum | MF Global UK Clients
and then scroll down to the "Howard Berlin on March 16, 2012 at 7:40 am said:" entry....where you can see Howard's latest letter to KPMG and a flavour of the approach he is taking!!

Looks like Worldspreads has now got itself into some difficulties today as well "World spreads
suspends shares over possible irregularities" see :
Worldspreads suspends shares over possible irregularities | Reuters

 

[TDog]

What are the similarities with MF and WS? I must admit, didn't follow the MF case at all. Have relative peanuts in WS compared to some of the people on this board had in MF!

There is talk here WorldSpreads Shares supsended - Betting Bible of some payment from the management of the Irish buyout team that is yet to be paid. Is that why they're up the creek?

 

[Hirose Financial UK]

What are the similarities with MF and WS? I must admit, didn't follow the MF case at all. Have relative peanuts in WS compared to some of the people on this board had in MF!

There is talk here WorldSpreads Shares supsended - Betting Bible of some payment from the management of the Irish buyout team that is yet to be paid. Is that why they're up the creek?

TDog,

There are similarities between MF and WS, namely client money being used for purposes that were not intended. As far as FSA rules go client money sitting in a bank can not be used by the company for any other purposes. I.e. it should sit there. WS is £13m short according to news reports.

Clients will / should be compensated for cash they 'hold' in their accounts (up to £50k). The financial institutions ultimately fund this 'insurance' from the levy that the FSA extracts from them every year.

What responsibility should the regulator bear for this?

 

[cookie]

SB thanks for that - it is the very same Howard I am sure.

Brilliant Howard - I can see where you are coming from and with that sort of personal money at stake why should you accept the constraints of the system. Hit the b*******s where it hurts and hope you get every penny back.

On my part without appearing glib the few grand I had lodged with MFG was considered 'gambling money' but irrespective I never ever considered that it would be at risk but held securely in a Client A/C ( whether Seg or Non seg ) similar to Escrow or a Solicitors Client A/C

I understand that since having received the initial 26% divi from KPMG that the first list of names for the FSCS to repay the remaining 74% of the total amount owing which had been reconciled and agreed by KPMG has been received by the FSCS and my name is on it - hopefully I should have funds received within the next couple of weeks.

I have to say that I am quite surprised at the relative speed with which KPMG have acted especially as having been subject to many similar situations with several of my customers having gone bust on me for many thousands of pounds and over many years. I dont think I have ever recovered more than 50p in the pound as a non secured creditor. Thank god for the FSCS and looks like the remainder of the financial services industry will be paying for it.

Heres hoping that all MFG clients are fully recompensed and as soon as poss.

I have received a further communication from Spreadex confirming my new account is open and would I like to return their form confirming my initial £2,000 credit limit ?????? I have never asked for an account to be opened nor did I request any credit.

Sounds similar to Worldspreads offering new clients £300 cashback on initial losses ?????????????????????

How do you feel Howard in depositing your substantial funds with another SB company - what guarantees can you get ???????

 

[lplate]

TDog,

There are similarities between MF and WS, namely client money being used for purposes that were not intended. As far as FSA rules go client money sitting in a bank can not be used by the company for any other purposes. I.e. it should sit there. WS is £13m short according to news reports.

Clients will / should be compensated for cash they 'hold' in their accounts (up to £50k). The financial institutions ultimately fund this 'insurance' from the levy that the FSA extracts from them every year.

What responsibility should the regulator bear for this?

The £16m or so remaining was the sort of cash eaten by KPMG in a just a couple of month dealing with MFGlobal, so one question I have is the likely size of KPMG cost for the much smaller and apparently much simpler situation in Worldspreads, especially since customers may have taken the moral that constant ringing up is the way to achieve faster refund. (In the end it will be you, Simon, IG etc who will be paying these salaries!)
The FSA is a strange beast. I remember ringing ten years ago on behalf of someone sold a useless endowment savings scheme and it was made very clear to me that in no way is the FSA a consumer protection body, and its main job was to speak for and to protect the industry. On the other hand, it does not appear to speak for or protect the good companies of the industry; instead allowing the bad boys to rack up bills for the good boys and to bring the whole industry into disrepute. One can assume it exists as a purely political body, to give a badge of complacency that a strict and effective regulation exists.

 

[hacks]

For those interested in the list of MF Global creditors, which was removed from KPMG's website for privacy reasons, it can be downloaded as a PDF file from zerohedge dot com

 

[lplate]

For those interested in the list of MF Global creditors, which was removed from KPMG's website for privacy reasons, it can be downloaded as a PDF file from zerohedge dot com

For the inalienable human right of freedom of information, I assume. Zerohedge clearly sees itself as another band of self-important t*ssers like those at wikileaks.

 

[cookie]

Quite unbelievable to be able to dowload such important information open to serious abuse in the wrong hands...............

.............. and then my word the complete name and address of the bloke who had referred to one of my earlier posts as idiotic - AND would you believe he lives no more than 5 minutes away from me. Wonder if he would be so bold when I knock on his door. Might just start searching for the person who had called me a 'knob jockey' ??

It is easy to abuse a fellow poster when there is very little likelihood of meeting the abused face to face. Perhaps a bloody nose might make those who do think twice ?

 

[hacks]

I hope I haven't caused any trouble by saying that the list is avaiable on another website. Note that I didn't post the link because I realised that this is not a good idea. The list should only be used to get an idea of who the creditors are and the amount owed. It should in no way be used to contact them by any means.

 

[cookie]

No worries Hacks - all tongue in cheek - just struck me as ironic....

Have encountered some very brave people on Bulletin Boards over the years - whether you agree or disagree with a posters view it is never acceptable to insult them. To retaliate with counter abuse only brings you down to their level.

It is general practise in the course of an Administration to publish a list of creditors but with the exception of Directors loan accounts the majority of creditors are usually companys listed by name.

KPMG should have thought about publishing individual names and addresses and simply totalled the liability amount and shown as Personal or Private Clients A/C's £ 000,000,000

Perhaps somebody will sue them - they are surely in breach of the Data ProtectionAct ????

 

[pboyles]

MF Global chief Jon Corzine ordered overdraft to be cleared with client funds - Telegraph

 

[lplate]

MF Global chief Jon Corzine ordered overdraft to be cleared with client funds - Telegraph

That was the impression given by the media reports, but James Katoulas pointed out it is not so clear.
New Details Emerge on MF Global, but No Smoking Gun - NYTimes.com
We can all now imagine this TV drama, surely, where the big man rings you Do this, do it now, and do whatever it takes, you ask them for the authority in writing, they remind you of your future, but they concede to do what you have asked, yet their actual email misses off the crucial "whatever it takes" bit ! The big man is thinking politically, while the patsy thinks, I can just say I was obeying orders as a loyal employee.
The lack of follow-thru by the JPM Risk Officer is also interesting, I think.

 

[tradeany]

That was the impression given by the media reports, but James Katoulas pointed out it is not so clear.
New Details Emerge on MF Global, but No Smoking Gun - NYTimes.com
We can all now imagine this TV drama, surely, where the big man rings you Do this, do it now, and do whatever it takes, you ask them for the authority in writing, they remind you of your future, but they concede to do what you have asked, yet their actual email misses off the crucial "whatever it takes" bit ! The big man is thinking politically, while the patsy thinks, I can just say I was obeying orders as a loyal employee.
The lack of follow-thru by the JPM Risk Officer is also interesting, I think.

Either way he is guilty in my view, The controls, authorization processes and ultimate audit trail must be in place. That is his responsibility to ensure they are in existence and working.
It clearly appears this is not the case or why so much debate on who did what and why this happened.
Base case he is at least guilty under SOX. Ignorance is not a defense.

 

[howard0181]

Have been away for a while and missed whats been written.

Recovery plan has to be based on what is your account and if you are seg or non segregated.

In my case I had about £61,800 as an agreed balance as at 31/10/11. I am seg but KPMG have me as non seg.

My plan was to be one of the first to get paid by FSCS as we have rights for £50k compensation.

I filed my claim with KPMG and backed this with my account balance as at 31/10/11. I also filed without delay with FSCS. I also wrote and advised that I was suffering financial hardship and this was agreed by the FSCS by a letter. I have to say that the FSCS have been great over this. They answer your questions without spin and they will return phone calls. The people I spoke to feel sorry for us who through no fault of our own have lost money.

I drove KPMG mad with letters and threats of press action. On some days I called KPMG 15 times. In the end I recieved a call from PA to a partner. She assisted me getting my balance agreed. That was emailed to FSCS and I recieved my money about 4 weeks (£50,000).

So my loss now is down to £11,800. KPMG are going to make a dividend payment to Non-Seg. I am guessing that this will happen in about two months time and as a guess they will pay about 20%.

I am still arguing that I am Seg and am hopeful that they will change my status. I had hope 5 or 6 weeks ago that they would change me but now they are going through procedures on my account before it can be changed.

Anyhow, it may not be relevant as a 20% pay out will mean that I will get paid in full and the balance go to the FSCS.

If anyone wants to ask me questions to assist please feel free to email me on [email protected]

I have been very pro active in what I have done. I have also done other things that I am not going into on this thread to ensure that KPMG do not profit out of the situation. I am hoping that the FSA will investigate what is going on and the money they are making from us.

 

[cookie]

Hi All

I can confirm that following the initial dividend received via KPMG a few weeks ago I have now received the total balance owed by MF Global ( less than 50k ) and paid by the FSCS.

With whom should I lodge funds in the future ??????

Wishing you all and especially Howard every success in acheiving a total recovery.

 

[Traduk]

I have also received full settlement with 26% paid by KPMG and the balance (about a week ago) from FSCS. Mine was also below £50k but nevertheless a sizeable chunk of change

I have left my accounts with other brokers as they were after re-assurance that they are not and will not be exposed to MfGlobal type risks. I would not be happy about seeking out another broker at this time because when "due diligence" fails with a giant in the industry, it leaves questions for which there are no answers.

Have to give a lot of credit to the FSCS for delivering the result though