Yes, I will see how it goes. Since May 24th, my initial deposit of 10k is now 10,319.40. 11 trades - 9 up and 2 losses.
Yes, I will see how it goes. Since May 24th, my initial deposit of 10k is now 10,319.40. 11 trades - 9 up and 2 losses.
What is the company called, is it IB Capital? Don't suppose you checked to see if they were regulated.
InvestYourWay
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I run a managed account service so can provide a few pointers in what to look for:
1) How often is the system trading?
Many of the managed accounts trade 5 times a day or more. Whilst this can be part of a legitimate trading strategy be aware that in most of these setups the broker will be rebating a percentage of the spread to the account manager so the more they trade the more rebates they earn.
2) What spread are you trading at?
Depending on how much visibility is provided this may be difficult to see but should be mentioned in the small print for the service. I have seen a number of these systems where a standard currency pair, e.g. EURUSD, which should be trading at 1 pip or less is actually trading at a spread of 2-4 pips due to the artificial inflating of the spread which is carried out by the broker on behalf of the account manager. This artificial inflating is, sadly, perfectly legitimate and is classed as a charge for running the service. Still you should try to find a managed account which does not add anything onto the spread if you can.
3) What leverage is being used?
Many of the managed account systems can, frighteningly, be up or down by 10% in a month. This can be because they are trading a lot of pairs simultaneously but more often than not is due to them using relatively high levels of leverage. As we all know on this forum this can look great on an up month and wipe out the account on a down month. As it is a managed account you should be able to see the trade records and determine the leverage being used or, if you are still choosing a provider, make sure you ask this question up front. Over 3:1 you should be a little concerned, over 5:1 you should be very careful and if at 10:1 or more you should be running in the other direction!
4) What is the charging structure?
A number of the managed accounts try and copy the hedge fund pricing model to a degree such as 2+20 (2% yearly admin fee, 20% performance fee) but a lot of these are now coming in much lower. Just as important though is to look at any entry fees, exit fees and particularly any lock-in periods which may be in force. The latter is not so common on managed accounts but may be enforced through an exit fee if withdrawing on short notice. The economics of these models though comes as much down to the broker rebate structure than anything else. Let's look at an example.
You deposit £100k and are on the service for a year. Let's assume you make £10k in returns so you will have paid the company £2k admin fee (keeping it simple and using 2% of the original deposit) and £2k performance fee (20% of the £10k you made). So £4k in total meaning you only really made £6k. Not too bad but now let's look at the rebates...
Keeping it simple for a moment let's assume you are trading at around £10 a point with your £100k when at 1:1 leverage. So if this service were operating at 3:1 leverage you are at £30 a point. Now many of these managed account services can achieve a 40% rebate with the broker and are often trading at 3 pips on a major pair via the artificial widening of the spread. So that's £90 of spread per trade or £36 (40% of £90) in rebates. Still with me?
So if the system trades 3 times a day the account manager is receiving £108 a day in rebates (£36*3). 21 trading days in a month so over the year they are getting £27,216 in rebates (£108*21*12). Makes the £4k of fees look pretty pathetic by comparison huh? So if you ever wondered how many of these services stay in business there is your answer, at those numbers it doesn't really matter if you are losing money, as long as you can get a few punters in each month at £100k minimum you are off to the races.
5) Are they regulated?
There are an alarming number of managed account firms who have no regulation, particularly in FX. The firms often use the excuse that FX is an unregulated market and therefore they don't need to be regulated. However under the FSA rules if you are managing investments, even in FX, then you must be regulated. Always check the regulation and ensure the firm providing the managed account service is themselves regulated, be wary that many will just quote the underlying broker which they use and say that they are fully regulated. In the UK you can check the firm out on the FSA register (FSA Register) and review their permissions and also any disciplinary history!
With all that being said there are a few of us out there trying to do things the right way. I personally think that managed accounts are a fantastic investment structure when done properly. They provide unparalleled transparency and put you, the end investor, in direct contact with the investment decisions being made with your capital. These things can be done without artificially widened spreads, massive leveraging or over-trading the account. Unfortunately doing it properly, as with many things in life, is far less lucrative and so few tread that path.
1) How often is the system trading?
Many of the managed accounts trade 5 times a day or more. Whilst this can be part of a legitimate trading strategy be aware that in most of these setups the broker will be rebating a percentage of the spread to the account manager so the more they trade the more rebates they earn.
2) What spread are you trading at?
Depending on how much visibility is provided this may be difficult to see but should be mentioned in the small print for the service. I have seen a number of these systems where a standard currency pair, e.g. EURUSD, which should be trading at 1 pip or less is actually trading at a spread of 2-4 pips due to the artificial inflating of the spread which is carried out by the broker on behalf of the account manager. This artificial inflating is, sadly, perfectly legitimate and is classed as a charge for running the service. Still you should try to find a managed account which does not add anything onto the spread if you can.
3) What leverage is being used?
Many of the managed account systems can, frighteningly, be up or down by 10% in a month. This can be because they are trading a lot of pairs simultaneously but more often than not is due to them using relatively high levels of leverage. As we all know on this forum this can look great on an up month and wipe out the account on a down month. As it is a managed account you should be able to see the trade records and determine the leverage being used or, if you are still choosing a provider, make sure you ask this question up front. Over 3:1 you should be a little concerned, over 5:1 you should be very careful and if at 10:1 or more you should be running in the other direction!
4) What is the charging structure?
A number of the managed accounts try and copy the hedge fund pricing model to a degree such as 2+20 (2% yearly admin fee, 20% performance fee) but a lot of these are now coming in much lower. Just as important though is to look at any entry fees, exit fees and particularly any lock-in periods which may be in force. The latter is not so common on managed accounts but may be enforced through an exit fee if withdrawing on short notice. The economics of these models though comes as much down to the broker rebate structure than anything else. Let's look at an example.
You deposit £100k and are on the service for a year. Let's assume you make £10k in returns so you will have paid the company £2k admin fee (keeping it simple and using 2% of the original deposit) and £2k performance fee (20% of the £10k you made). So £4k in total meaning you only really made £6k. Not too bad but now let's look at the rebates...
Keeping it simple for a moment let's assume you are trading at around £10 a point with your £100k when at 1:1 leverage. So if this service were operating at 3:1 leverage you are at £30 a point. Now many of these managed account services can achieve a 40% rebate with the broker and are often trading at 3 pips on a major pair via the artificial widening of the spread. So that's £90 of spread per trade or £36 (40% of £90) in rebates. Still with me?
So if the system trades 3 times a day the account manager is receiving £108 a day in rebates (£36*3). 21 trading days in a month so over the year they are getting £27,216 in rebates (£108*21*12). Makes the £4k of fees look pretty pathetic by comparison huh? So if you ever wondered how many of these services stay in business there is your answer, at those numbers it doesn't really matter if you are losing money, as long as you can get a few punters in each month at £100k minimum you are off to the races.
5) Are they regulated?
There are an alarming number of managed account firms who have no regulation, particularly in FX. The firms often use the excuse that FX is an unregulated market and therefore they don't need to be regulated. However under the FSA rules if you are managing investments, even in FX, then you must be regulated. Always check the regulation and ensure the firm providing the managed account service is themselves regulated, be wary that many will just quote the underlying broker which they use and say that they are fully regulated. In the UK you can check the firm out on the FSA register (FSA Register) and review their permissions and also any disciplinary history!
With all that being said there are a few of us out there trying to do things the right way. I personally think that managed accounts are a fantastic investment structure when done properly. They provide unparalleled transparency and put you, the end investor, in direct contact with the investment decisions being made with your capital. These things can be done without artificially widened spreads, massive leveraging or over-trading the account. Unfortunately doing it properly, as with many things in life, is far less lucrative and so few tread that path.
Montague Pittman were fully regulated and still managed to rip people off, that's not to mention the numerous other schemes that lose clients money on a regular basis despite being fully regulated.
Stay well clear of any managed forex account.
i can managed your account with my robot who is making 10-15% monthly.
My fee is 50 % of profit on your balance.
Max.drowdown (risk) is 20 %.
Minimum deposit 2.000.-$.
I have tesded it on live for 10 months !!
He passed whole situations on market.
Its big diference off only backtesting.
It is very simple to start. You give me name of your broker .If i havent worked before i install my EA on DEMO to adjust 2-3 days ,than you give me number and passw of your account and i put my robot on your account to trade for you.
It is working on any MT4 platform.
I have experience with many brokers
4 or 5 digits no problem.
milan.anicic3
Looks like you also part of another babypips scamfest. Has that idiot lost his 50k yet?
i am willing to pay up to 5000$ for a succesful trading stategy ore EA
NVP
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MrLeverage
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Good idea.
Great postings here. Just so you know where I'm coming from, I was one of the *suckers* who got taken in the Porphetmax - IB capital scheme. Having said that, I still believe the managed FX concept is a good one.
The problem is finding the right company to deal with. With so many companies displaying websites on the internet it's tough to find out what's a scam, and what's not. I will be doing my due diligence this time, believe me. Cheat me once, shame on you, cheat me twice, shame on me! Anyway, I have learned a lot from the ProphetMax scandal, but still have a bug to make the managed FX thing work.
I have zero experience with trading, so paying a company to trade on my behalf seems like a great idea. Just like hiring any other profesional. I don't care how much they make off the trades (as shown above) as long as I am making a decent income, and the company I am paying has integrity.
So having said all that, I'm looking for advice from the experienced traders on the board as to what companies they recommend.
BTW, I live in BC Canada so I understand that can be a problem for some brokerages due to the requirement of BC residents to use CIPF registered brokerages. I guess thats a good problem but maybe not. Your comments are welcomed on that too.
looking forward to all replies.
The problem is finding the right company to deal with. With so many companies displaying websites on the internet it's tough to find out what's a scam, and what's not. I will be doing my due diligence this time, believe me. Cheat me once, shame on you, cheat me twice, shame on me! Anyway, I have learned a lot from the ProphetMax scandal, but still have a bug to make the managed FX thing work.
I have zero experience with trading, so paying a company to trade on my behalf seems like a great idea. Just like hiring any other profesional. I don't care how much they make off the trades (as shown above) as long as I am making a decent income, and the company I am paying has integrity.
So having said all that, I'm looking for advice from the experienced traders on the board as to what companies they recommend.
BTW, I live in BC Canada so I understand that can be a problem for some brokerages due to the requirement of BC residents to use CIPF registered brokerages. I guess thats a good problem but maybe not. Your comments are welcomed on that too.
looking forward to all replies.
You were scammed by an unregulated managed forex account and the first thing you do is look for another unregulated managed forex account? There are no managed forex accounts advertised to the public that are NOT scams, none, zero. They are all scams and you're setting yourself up to lose more money.
What's wrong with people on this thread, were you all completely brain washed by Pousa? If you want extra income work for it, there's no free money.
Careers :: McDonalds.com
Thanks for you opinion.
Why is it that everyone on this forum jumps all over you when you ask questions? I'm naive so I ask questions. Is that a problem on this board??? How am I supposed to know everything is a scam unless I ask? Also, where did I say I wanted to get involved with an unregulated firm? I have read my post twice and don't see that reference.
I think I have made about 4 posts on this board and every response has been aggressive. What gives???
What do you suggest I do with money I want to invest Pboyles, since you're portraying to be the expert here. What do you do with your money? Do you trade it yourself? Hows your track record? or do you just have a job and only work by the hour. Anyone can give a negative response to my questions, lets see some positive responses...Lets hear your road map to success.
Why is it that everyone on this forum jumps all over you when you ask questions? I'm naive so I ask questions. Is that a problem on this board??? How am I supposed to know everything is a scam unless I ask? Also, where did I say I wanted to get involved with an unregulated firm? I have read my post twice and don't see that reference.
I think I have made about 4 posts on this board and every response has been aggressive. What gives???
What do you suggest I do with money I want to invest Pboyles, since you're portraying to be the expert here. What do you do with your money? Do you trade it yourself? Hows your track record? or do you just have a job and only work by the hour. Anyone can give a negative response to my questions, lets see some positive responses...Lets hear your road map to success.
Lightning McQueen
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Thanks for you opinion.
Why is it that everyone on this forum jumps all over you when you ask questions? I'm naive so I ask questions. Is that a problem on this board??? How am I supposed to know everything is a scam unless I ask? Also, where did I say I wanted to get involved with an unregulated firm? I have read my post twice and don't see that reference.
I think I have made about 4 posts on this board and every response has been aggressive. What gives???
What do you suggest I do with money I want to invest Pboyles, since you're portraying to be the expert here. What do you do with your money? Do you trade it yourself? Hows your track record? or do you just have a job and only work by the hour. Anyone can give a negative response to my questions, lets see some positive responses...Lets hear your road map to success.
don't believe the postings are aggressive as such, more a case you possibly didn't like the answer because it wasn't what you wanted to hear maybe? i realise it's likely a slight touchy subject for you as you've lost a fair bit to the scammers already.
you ought really try put behind you what you've been reading from those passive income mlm idiots. all they're after is your money, seriously it's designed to be passive income for them and their shills, not you, it's their gravy train on your subs money. anyhow, good luck sorting through it all
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Thanks for you opinion.
Why is it that everyone on this forum jumps all over you when you ask questions? I'm naive so I ask questions. Is that a problem on this board??? How am I supposed to know everything is a scam unless I ask? Also, where did I say I wanted to get involved with an unregulated firm? I have read my post twice and don't see that reference.
I think I have made about 4 posts on this board and every response has been aggressive. What gives???
What do you suggest I do with money I want to invest Pboyles, since you're portraying to be the expert here. What do you do with your money? Do you trade it yourself? Hows your track record? or do you just have a job and only work by the hour. Anyone can give a negative response to my questions, lets see some positive responses...Lets hear your road map to success.
Keep your money in the bank and forget about all get rich quick schemes. If you want to make more money then work for it, that's the only way. This nonsense about doing 15 minutes work a day to make x% a month is a dream. All you're doing is lining the pockets of criminals. You should know that after falling for Pousa, why on earth have you not learnt from that experience?
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I suggest you check my previous posts on this forum. There are good traders out there but very hard to find.
Hedge Fund Wizard
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You are making genralised non-sensical statements.
From the bitterness of your posts, I am guessing you are a retired pension drawing ranter, who enjoys abusing people asking genuine questions.
If you have nothing positive to add, don't. Playground bullying is so 1990's.
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