Making Money Trading

Which market do you want to learn to trade?


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I resent the need to sleep at times like this. If I ever get properly good at FX trading on hourly bars, I'm going to split the shifts with another trader!

I'm watching the EURJPY right now. Orders in for an hourly pin, which is back to back with another pin. The open of the first pins eye is at a S/R level which seems relevant to price action now. I'm going to pull the sell order if there is a break above this level at 161.30. If this level is rejected and price heads back down, I'm keeping the orer as the signal will be even stronger so close to key support.

Also, there is a pin on the daily for this instrument, although not a true pin more of a reversal bar (the nose is within the range). Still, it is showing us where price did not want to be, and it also had 2 back to back hourly pins at the top of the move that day.

Cable short is within 10 of being triggered half way into the hour. As I finish typing this, it seems that the R on EURJPY is holding quite firmly, and price is now 10 pips of from it. I will pull both orders if they are not triggered by 4am.

I've been tempted to drop to a lower timeframe to look at how price is behaving on EURJPY, but I'm trying to avoid "noise". Going to read for awhile until 4 or the orders are triggered.
 
Well, I'm in EURJPY just at the end of the hour. It held resistance at the proxy eye.

Holding GBPUSD order as it is almost triggered, we've just made a new hourly low, and left eye high hasn't been taken out. Possibly two positions to manage.

Big pin off support on the USDSGD, but it took me awhile to remember which currencies those were, and I'm managing potentially 2 positions, so I'll pass.

Alert service going well, but MT4 occaisonally drops offline - maybe a problem with North Finance....
 
I've looked at EURAUD and was wondering about the amount of pivots you would recommend drawing?

I've attached daily and weekly charts, I've drawn in all pivots (not just the ones closest to current price). TD, would you have settled for this amount, or are they even at the areas you'd have set them?

I went down to hourly as well but didn't see much of interest during the last rally, as far as pivots go.

Thanks, and once again, I wish you best of luck.

Well. Your charts do crop up a few questions in my mind. Basically the prices are moving sideways in the charts posted by you. No trend. That may be the reason why there are so many supports and resistances, which will not give any sizeable and profitable trade.
My questions to Trader Dante are (Ithink TD has already touched upon it a few posts earlier, though not in detail)
1. How to use pin bars in sideways moving market?
2. Should we concentrate on minor supports and resistances in sideways moving market? Or is it sufficient to mark topmost resistance and bottommost support and trade only when the price reaches there? Should we avoid trading at each minor support and resistance?
Kindly clarify my doubts
Thanks in advance and regards
RSI
 
Damn, just lost my post before I hit submit. Have to type it again.

Pulled the cable order as it was a new hour and 20 minutes in it is testing the high of both eyes. Got out of EURJPY on a support test for +23 (covered at 160.79). It has been meandering about there for a few minutes, and has now crashed through as I type this, also triggering the low of yesteday - when will I learn about bad exits?*

Well, I'm not chasing the trade or reentering, so unless my alert system gives me new pins at 5am, I'm flat for the night. I've had 2 trades so far, both winners, both using TD's method. To quote fxbee - cheers boss!

I need to work on my exits and targets first. I'm looking forward to having a big enough account to trade multiples - I feel that scaling out will help my profitability by taking some off in the case of BE stops being hit, while leaving some on if the move breaks out. More for another day, but the GBPJPY went over 50 points and the EURJPY could go quite far (and they were both yen buys!). I'm quite upset to have covered the first early, but got a decent profit on the second. A good night indeed.

I think my trading could be improving.** I've not posted charts as too tired, but the calls are live enough and you all have charts ;-)

* - even the great traders on these boards still sometimes have exit issues, so I won't beat myself up too much for this just yet.

** - The Kiss of Death? Last time I said that was after 12 profitable weeks and I got 4 losing weeks after that!
 
Regretting pulling my cable short order as the price has collapsed through it, however it is fair to abort a signal when it is flirting with the high of both eyes and hasn't triggered in the hour following the pin, especially when managing another position.

5AM, and my alert service has given me another few pins. Some of these pins are pretty useless (the algorithm takes pins in isolation, and therefore counts pins within a range - but this is good behavior as it prevents false negatives), for example a EURAUD which has a small nose.

There is a pin on GBPCHF, but no confluence, and a pin on NZDCHF (which I'm passing up). Looks like this is me flat for the time being, but just wanted to update on the cable pins performance.
 
Something I borrowed from a guy on another forum (with his permission) and posted in the "Can you make money trading" forum. I think it also speaks to the value of what trader_dante is offering to potential traders hoping to escape the inferno.


phorex_phreak: said:
Traders Prayer

Step One: Unconscious Incompetence.

This is the first step you take when starting to look into trading. you know that its a good way of making money because you've heard so many things about it and heard of so many millionaires.

Unfortunately, just like when you first desire to drive a car you think it will be easy - after all, how hard can it be?? - price either moves up or down - what's the big secret to that then - lets get cracking! Unfortunately, just as when you first take your place in front of a steering wheel you find very quickly that you haven't got the first clue about what you're trying to do. you take lots of trades and lots of risks. when you enter a trade it turns against you so you reverse and it turns again .. and again, and again. You try to turn around your losses by doubling up every time you trade - sometimes you'll get away with it but more often than not you will come away scathed and bruised Well this is stage one - you are totally oblivious to your incompetence at trading.Stage one can last for a week or two of trading but the market is usually swift and you move onto stage two.

Stage Two - Conscious Incompetence

Stage two is where you realize that there is more work involved in this and that you might actually have to work a few things out. You consciously realize that you are an incompetent trader - you don't have the skills or the insight to turn a regular profit. During this phase you will buy systems and e-books galore, read websites based everywhere from Russia to the Ukraine. and begin your search for the holy grail.

During this time you will be a system whore - you will flick from method to method day by day and week by week never sticking with one long enough to actually see if it does work. every time you came upon a new indicator you'll be ecstatic that this is the one that will make all the difference. You will test out automated systems on Meta-trader, you'll play with moving averages, Fibonacci lines, support & resistance, Pivots, Fractals, Divergence, DMI, ADX, and a hundred other things all in the vein hope that your 'magic system' starts today. you'll be a top and bottom picker, trying to find the exact point of reversal with your indicators and you'll find yourself chasing losing trades and even adding to them cos you are so sure you are right.

You'll go into the live chat room and see other traders making pips and you want to know why it's not you - you'll ask a million questions, some of which are so dumb that looking back you feel a bit silly. You'll then reach the point where you think all the ones who are calling pips after pips are liars - they cant be making that amount cos you've studied and you don't make that, you know as much as they do and they must be lying. but they're in there day after day and their account just grows whilst yours falls. You will be like a teenager - the traders that make money will freely give you advice but you're stubborn and think that you know best - you take no notice and over leverage your account even though everyone says you are mad to - but you know better. You'll consider following the calls that others make but even then it wont work so you try paying for signals from someone else - they don't work for you either.

This phase can last ages and ages - in fact in reality it can last well over a year - My own period lasted about 18 months. Eventually you do begin to come out of this phase. You've probably committed more time and money than you ever thought you would, lost 2 or 3 loaded accounts and all but given up maybe 3 or 4 times.



Then comes stage 3 Stage 3 -

The Eureka Moment Towards the end of stage two you begin to realize that it's not the system that is making the difference.

You realize that its actually possible to make money with a simple moving average and nothing else IF you can get your head and money management right You start to read books on the psychology of trading and identify with the characters portrayed in those books. Finally comes the eureka moment.

The eureka moment causes a new connection to be made in your brain. You suddenly realize that neither you, nor anyone else can accurately predict what the market will do in the next ten seconds, never mind the next 20 mins. You start to work just one system that you mould to your own way of trading, you're starting to get happy and you define your risk threshold. You start to take every trade that your 'edge' shows has a good probability of winning with.

When the trade turns bad you don't get angry or even because you know in your head that as you couldn't possibly predict it it isn't your fault - as soon as you realize that the trade is bad you close it .

The next trade will have higher odds of success cos you know your simple system works. You have realized in an instant that the trading game is about one thing - consistency of your 'edge' and your discipline to take all the trades no matter what. You learn about proper money management and leverage - risk of account etc etc - and this time it actually soaks in and you think back to those who advised the same thing a year ago with a smile

You weren't ready then, but you are now. The eureka moment came the moment that you truly accepted that you cannot predict the market.

Then comes stage four Stage 4 -

Conscious Competence Ok, now you are making trades whenever your system tells you to. You take losses just as easily as you take wins You now let your winners run to their conclusion fully accepting the risk and knowing that your system makes more money than it loses and when you're on a loser you close it swiftly with little pain to your account

You are now at a point where you break even most of the time - day in day out, you will have weeks where you make 100 pips a weeks where you lose 100 pips - generally you are breaking even and not losing money.

You are now conscious of the fact that you are making calls that are generally good and you are getting respect from other traders as you chat the day away. You still have to work at it and think about your trades but as this continues you begin to make more money than you lose consistently. You'll start the day on a 20 pip win, take a 35 pip loss and have no feelings that you've given those pips back because you know that it will come back again. You will now begin to make consistent pips week in and week out 25 pips one week, 50 the next and so on. This lasts about 6 months

Then comes Stage Five Stage Five - Unconscious Competence Now were cooking - just like driving a car, every day you get in your seat and trade - you do everything now on an unconscious level.

You are running on autopilot. You start to pick the really big trades and getting 100 pips in a day is becoming quite normal to you. This is trading utopia - you have mastered your emotions and you are now a trader with a rapidly growing account. You're a star in the trading chat room and people listen to what you say. you recognize yourself in their questions from about two years ago.

You pass on your advice but you know most of it is futile cos they're teenagers - some of them will get to where you are - some will do it fast and others will be slower - literally dozens and dozens will never get past stage two but a few will. Trading is no longer exciting - in fact it's probably boring you to bits - like everything in life when you get good at it or do it for your job - it gets boring - you're doing your job and that's that.

You can now say with your head held high "I'm a currency trader"
 
Another live call. I've just gone long the cable at 2.0716 based on an hourly pin flagged by my signal system. Normally I would have passedf on that, but it is a pin off the S/R and the EURGBP has just made a bearish pin. Looks like this is all about Sterling strengthening in the last hour. Confluence! Target of the highs, though I expect stalling around 2.0740, might look to cover there. Risk is 42 pips.

I didn't take the EURGBP as well because:

a) - I don't like correlated positions
b) - the pin on EURGBP was at a Top
 
Another live call. I've just gone long the cable at 2.0716 based on an hourly pin flagged by my signal system. Normally I would have passedf on that, but it is a pin off the S/R and the EURGBP has just made a bearish pin. Looks like this is all about Sterling strengthening in the last hour. Confluence! Target of the highs, though I expect stalling around 2.0740, might look to cover there. Risk is 42 pips.

I didn't take the EURGBP as well because:

a) - I don't like correlated positions
b) - the pin on EURGBP was at a Top

Come to think of it, I think the above trade is a little counter trend, and given that there was clearly some heavy buying of sterling in the last hour, I'm not too sure that the move is set to continue, especially when the tail of this pin is at a key S/R zone and the highs have been convincingly rejected a few hours ago by a pin which I didn't take because it didn't trigger on the next bar.

Looks like this last trade will turn my night into a loser!
 

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Come to think of it, I think the above trade is a little counter trend, and given that there was clearly some heavy buying of sterling in the last hour, I'm not too sure that the move is set to continue, especially when the tail of this pin is at a key S/R zone and the highs have been convincingly rejected a few hours ago by a pin which I didn't take because it didn't trigger on the next bar.

Looks like this last trade will turn my night into a loser!

Not a great trade. Out +1. A good night. 3 trades, 3 winners. Should have left the first one running longer. Shouldn't have taken a cable before the Euro session. Did everything else okay I think. I'm enjoying the pin bar alert service!

Good trading all.
 
Not a great trade. Out +1. A good night. 3 trades, 3 winners. Should have left the first one running longer. Shouldn't have taken a cable before the Euro session. Did everything else okay I think. I'm enjoying the pin bar alert service!

Good trading all.

I don't think you can call that "a good night". You were up all night while you wanted to trade forex because of less screen time, less stress and more relaxation instead of finger itching and stops/targets adjusting.

Also, if you are trading hourly bars, I doubt there are 3 equally high probability signals in one night... :|
 
I don't think you can call that "a good night". You were up all night while you wanted to trade forex because of less screen time, less stress and more relaxation instead of finger itching and stops/targets adjusting.

Also, if you are trading hourly bars, I doubt there are 3 equally high probability signals in one night... :|


:LOL: :LOL:

no, only 2, and they yielded 300 pips in cable alone in the last 12 hrs :LOL:
 
I don't think you can call that "a good night". You were up all night while you wanted to trade forex because of less screen time, less stress and more relaxation instead of finger itching and stops/targets adjusting.

Also, if you are trading hourly bars, I doubt there are 3 equally high probability signals in one night... :|

I can't catch a break from you, can I? The GBPJPY short went over 100 pips, the EURJPY did equally well, and the cable trade wasn't good but still it wasn't a loss. I happened to be up doing other things anyway, so I thought I'd check my new alert service (which I am trying to set up to save people time at work during the day looking for their hourly pins) to see if it was generating signals when it should. I saw a few pins in the course of checking, so traded them. I didn't need to adjust stops or anything - limit order in with an if-done contingent stop, and I'd check and exit or leave it on the next hour. There is really no pleasing some people.

I took a premature exit on one, and the third wasn't a great trade. Second one went well. The first GBPJPY trade was too similar to the one I made the other day, and I got shaken out. No harm done, I was doing other things, I made some pips, and I tested my pin alert service (which works btw).

The whole purpose of the pin alert service is to save time for those who work and can't pull up 30 different charts on the hour every hour, especially those who trade in the bucket shops and have to rely on the slow java charts.

FW, I appreciate your feedback and advice on my trading, and you've helped me a lot, but I feel that comment was a little too critical.
 
I can't catch a break from you, can I? The GBPJPY short went over 100 pips, the EURJPY did equally well, and the cable trade wasn't good but still it wasn't a loss. I happened to be up doing other things anyway, so I thought I'd check my new alert service (which I am trying to set up to save people time at work during the day looking for their hourly pins) to see if it was generating signals when it should. I saw a few pins in the course of checking, so traded them. I didn't need to adjust stops or anything - limit order in with an if-done contingent stop, and I'd check and exit or leave it on the next hour. There is really no pleasing some people.

Trading is not about pleasing people. If you're happy with what you're doing, than that's fine. You don't need to justify your trading to me or anybody else for that matter, I've got nothing to gain from it.

I took a premature exit on one, and the third wasn't a great trade. Second one went well. The first GBPJPY trade was too similar to the one I made the other day, and I got shaken out. No harm done, I was doing other things, I made some pips, and I tested my pin alert service (which works btw).

The whole purpose of the pin alert service is to save time for those who work and can't pull up 30 different charts on the hour every hour, especially those who trade in the bucket shops and have to rely on the slow java charts.

FW, I appreciate your feedback and advice on my trading, and you've helped me a lot, but I feel that comment was a little too critical.

The point is not whether or not the trades turned out profitable. I read a lot of emotion and discretion in your posts: "Normally I would have", "unless...", "I'm quite upset", "should have...", "shouldn't have..." If you have a plan, and you are following it to the letter, than there should be none of this "couldawouldashoulda"...

Ofcourse I'm being critical and a pain in the ass, what else did you expect me to do? I wouldn't want you to get complacement :devilish:
 
Perhaps this is/was the level to beat?
Would you take a short-entry here? Why/why not? :)

Going back to my (paper) entry from the day before, this is where we are now.
Still no reason to exit, I would move stops close to 223.50.

Perhaps I should start trading forex, first trade is a winner straight out of the box :p

Edit: I don't use EMA's, they just happen to be on the chart
 

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Will this qulify a pin.?

Hi TD,

Have attached EURUSD chart, how would you classify this formation. It does have a small body and long tail, but couldnt agree this as pin. Whats your comment on it.?

Fxbee
 

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Firewalker,

Those MA's on your first chart are mine, you stole my chart :cheesy: just kidding.
What would be a reason to exit for you?

I've shorted the GBP/JPY again on the hourly pin from 11.00 hours see chart1.
Allready got my stop to BE.
Another reason i'm in this one is the massive SHS pattern seen on the daily chart (chart 2) with a potential target of 2800+ pips :eek:
I think i'm gonna stay in this trade for a couple off days (if i'm not stopped out) to see if this SHS is going to come out.
 

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Hi TD,

Have attached EURUSD chart, how would you classify this formation. It does have a small body and long tail, but couldnt agree this as pin. Whats your comment on it.?

Fxbee

Hey Forexbee,

It is an perfect pin, but not valid to enter a trade on.
But i'm sure you knew that ;)
 
My questions to Trader Dante are (Ithink TD has already touched upon it a few posts earlier, though not in detail)
1. How to use pin bars in sideways moving market?

I've tried to explain this in the best way I can. You can also take a look at post #126, 128 and 129 on this page http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=26947&page=13 for perhaps a better explanation.


2. Should we concentrate on minor supports and resistances in sideways moving market? Or is it sufficient to mark topmost resistance and bottommost support and trade only when the price reaches there? Should we avoid trading at each minor support and resistance?

The stronger the support or resistance the more likely a test is significant.

Strength is measured by:

a) Number of times tested

b) Whether it is a PIVOT
 
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The point is not whether or not the trades turned out profitable. I read a lot of emotion and discretion in your posts: "Normally I would have", "unless...", "I'm quite upset", "should have...", "shouldn't have..." If you have a plan, and you are following it to the letter, than there should be none of this "couldawouldashoulda"...

Ofcourse I'm being critical and a pain in the ass, what else did you expect me to do? I wouldn't want you to get complacement :devilish:

Hi Lurker,

Some really good calls but I have to side with Firewalker here. There is a lot of emotion and discretion in your posts. It seems to me that you are still not on auto pilot yet.

You should strongly consider what is stronger for you personally, the pain of losing or the joy of winning.

The more successful you get, the more these two emotions become equal.

Tom
 
Hi TD,

Have attached EURUSD chart, how would you classify this formation. It does have a small body and long tail, but couldnt agree this as pin. Whats your comment on it.?

Fxbee

Yes that is a good looking pin but it has already been INVALIDATED.

Also remember that WHERE IT OCCURS is more important than the pin itself.
 
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