Lord Anton Kreil

[joetroscoe]

Does it work in producing real profits ?

My assumption is that people who can't trade go teach. Of course my assumption could be incorrect.

This guy has a very solid profit motive. We pay the institute for the education. They, in turn, monitor our accounts to see if we are profitable and serve as the independent auditor forum guys are always crying about. They admit to piggybacking off of institute trader ideas. If a trader has a very good track record, they get a big head hunting fee to place them at a hedge fund, already trained. They will also get Institute money to trade. It is rather ingenious. They are trying to build a global remote trading desk. The broker I am with here in the US will rebate my account monthly until the education is paid for. The Institute takes no kickbacks. The agreements are all online.

Think about it. What if you could build a trading desk to do all that tedious research for you? Believe me, finding good spread trades globally is remarkably tedious. I would do it in a heartbeat. Train traders to work for me. All I have to do is make sure they are following the process and not doing anything insane. Think about that for a moment.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

This guy has a very solid profit motive. We pay the institute for the education. They, in turn, monitor our accounts to see if we are profitable and serve as the independent auditor forum guys are always crying about. They admit to piggybacking off of institute trader ideas. If a trader has a very good track record, they get a big head hunting fee to place them at a hedge fund, already trained. They will also get Institute money to trade. It is rather ingenious. They are trying to build a global remote trading desk. The broker I am with here in the US will rebate my account monthly until the education is paid for. The Institute takes no kickbacks. The agreements are all online.

Think about it. What if you could build a trading desk to do all that tedious research for you? Believe me, finding good spread trades globally is remarkably tedious. I would do it in a heartbeat. Train traders to work for me. All I have to do is make sure they are following the process and not doing anything insane. Think about that for a moment.

Oh, I don't mean if they are making profits. I am sure they do.

I am more interested in whether their teachings result in you making a profit ?

Personally, I don't care for audits. I just ask for a call out. This weeds out nearly all the time wasters.

Don't panic, I am not asking you for a call out. I am just curious if what they teach is useful for producing a profit ? Bank traders can make profit when they have the bank's advantage behind them. Without that advantage, they'd do no better than anyone else. So by merely having what the bank trader knows won't help you that much, I don't think.

 

[spinola]

I notice people who pass Professional FOREX Trading Masterclass (PFTM) Video Series Exam , via the institute, automatically obtain the ' right to become an Institute Trader, if you wish to do so at any point in the future '.

Anyone claimed that right, and what entitlements are attached to that right ?

 

[foroom lluzers]

Oh, I don't mean if they are making profits. I am sure they do.

I am more interested in whether their teachings result in you making a profit ?

Personally, I don't care for audits. I just ask for a call out. This weeds out nearly all the time wasters.

Don't panic, I am not asking you for a call out. I am just curious if what they teach is useful for producing a profit ? Bank traders can make profit when they have the bank's advantage behind them. Without that advantage, they'd do no better than anyone else. So by merely having what the bank trader knows won't help you that much, I don't think.

The trading industry has 95% of traders losing ,according to Lord Anton , they become the ones who can't , so you have more who can't and more who teach and less who can.

 

[aag100]

My God is real.why are you so blind to see that all the others are false.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

The trading industry has 95% of traders losing ,according to Lord Anton , they become the ones who can't , so you have more who can't and more who teach and less who can.

Are you speaking english or gibberish ? I am not sure what you said.

Did Anton said 95% ? Not sure he's right. I think more like 99%.

Whatever the %, what I really want to know is: does Anton teach anything that makes any difference to people in terms of profitability ? Because if the bank trader knowledge is that useful, we'd see more retired bank traders here demonstrating using the market as an ATM. I have never seen anyone like that, which leads me to believe the bank trader knowledge is not useful without the bank.

 

[foroom lluzers]

Are you speaking english or gibberish ? I am not sure what you said.

Did Anton said 95% ? Not sure he's right. I think more like 99%.

I was being diplomatic on the 95% and was avoiding clear language.I don't like upsetting the upset,

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

I was being diplomatic on the 95% and was avoiding clear language.I don't like upsetting the upset,

I believe knowing one is a looser is the first step to become a winner. It might hurt but it's better for people.

 

[joetroscoe]

Oh, I don't mean if they are making profits. I am sure they do.

I am more interested in whether their teachings result in you making a profit ?

Personally, I don't care for audits. I just ask for a call out. This weeds out nearly all the time wasters.

Don't panic, I am not asking you for a call out. I am just curious if what they teach is useful for producing a profit ? Bank traders can make profit when they have the bank's advantage behind them. Without that advantage, they'd do no better than anyone else. So by merely having what the bank trader knows won't help you that much, I don't think.

I don't think bank traders are really any different than anyone else to be honest. I think that the process is what matters. As far as me making money, no way to know for a few years. Showing a trade or two is meaningless. I would like my kelly numbers to be over a few years. I think an audit is the only real way to tell if a trader makes money. It's nice to have a structure in place at any rate. It is a common myth that traders of any type can use the markets as an ATM. This is simply structurally impossible. The markets should be viewed as a wealth building vehicle over time. Not even GS is right all of the time. Most traders will be doing very well to be right half of the time.

 

[joetroscoe]

I notice people who pass Professional FOREX Trading Masterclass (PFTM) Video Series Exam , via the institute, automatically obtain the ' right to become an Institute Trader, if you wish to do so at any point in the future '.

Anyone claimed that right, and what entitlements are attached to that right ?

I claimed that right. The main benefit is having your track record independently verified.

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

I don't think bank traders are really any different than anyone else to be honest. I think that the process is what matters. As far as me making money, no way to know for a few years. Showing a trade or two is meaningless. I would like my kelly numbers to be over a few years. I think an audit is the only real way to tell if a trader makes money. It's nice to have a structure in place at any rate. It is a common myth that traders of any type can use the markets as an ATM. This is simply structurally impossible. The markets should be viewed as a wealth building vehicle over time. Not even GS is right all of the time. Most traders will be doing very well to be right half of the time.

Yes, I knew the bank traders were not different, hence I was expressing mild scepticism. I worked with a bank trader. Without the bank, he was losing like the rest of the internet joes.

Showing a trade or two is not meaningless. It is also not meaningless to not show a trade. All responses to the psychological pressure of a call out reveals something. Your response suggests Anton's teaching doesn't really produce something spectacular. Perhaps it works, perhaps it doesn't. But I suppose, with his teachings, you are less likely to blow out like the internet traders who destroy themselves through wrong sizing. But that is not enough to produce a significant chance for success.

 

[foroom lluzers]

I believe knowing one is a looser is the first step to become a winner. It might hurt but it's better for people.

If you lose , you realize how difficult the job is ,for average Joe , experience of losing teaches everything about real trading .It also helps you learn why there are so many Atons who teach .The trading industry produces more teachers , that can't , because as Anton said 99% lose.How can they teach successful trading , when most don't know how to trade profitably?

 

[joetroscoe]

Yes, I knew the bank traders were not different, hence I was expressing mild scepticism. I worked with a bank trader. Without the bank, he was losing like the rest of the internet joes.

Showing a trade or two is not meaningless. It is also not meaningless to not show a trade. All responses to the psychological pressure of a call out reveals something. Your response suggests Anton's teaching doesn't really produce something spectacular. Perhaps it works, perhaps it doesn't. But I suppose, with his teachings, you are less likely to blow out like the internet traders who destroy themselves through wrong sizing. But that is not enough to produce a significant chance for success.

The course was not designed to produce something spectacular. It is not one of those turn 100 dollars into 100K in 3 months. It is designed to grind out a monthly return, month after month. You are correct in that the very nature of the structure is meant to manage risk by keeping position sizes in check and using various hedging strategies to hedge out risk. I say that calling out a trade is meaningless because even if I call out a 20% winner, it does not reflect the rest of my portfolio, which could be underwater this week. It also opens me up to answering a bunch of questions about how and why I put on the trade, and so on. I am unwilling to be specific about the mechanics behind any trade that I would call out. So, therefore, saying I was long or short anything without a broker statement is just boasting, which is what everyone loves to do on these types of forums. It also begins to drift away from the topic of the thread. As far as chances for success, the best traders in the world have a 50% strike rate on average. 55/45 is about as good as you are going to get. That said, over time, 51% success after commissions is all you need to be comfortable over the course of your lifetime.

 

[joetroscoe]

If you lose , you realize how difficult the job is ,for average Joe , experience of losing teaches everything about real trading .It also helps you learn why there are so many Atons who teach .The trading industry produces more teachers , that can't , because as Anton said 99% lose.How can they teach successful trading , when most don't know how to trade profitably?

The reason is that most do not know how to follow directions for an extended period of time. The turtles experiment years ago showed that in spectacular fashion. Trading itself is clicking a mouse and watching your positions. That's it. The problem is most traders do not have an approach that makes sense, and when they do get some kind of approach, they mess with it the minute it takes losses.

 

[foroom lluzers]

The reason is that most do not know how to follow directions for an extended period of time. The turtles experiment years ago showed that in spectacular fashion. Trading itself is clicking a mouse and watching your positions. That's it. The problem is most traders do not have an approach that makes sense, and when they do get some kind of approach, they mess with it the minute it takes losses.

The trading industry's selling point is the turtles story , it is mainly sold to new traders .The trading hides or tries to hide and deceive new traders , into a false belief about trend trading.Those who can't fail to tell the truth , that it ended in tears for the myth of Richard Dennis , who was finally sued and lost a lot of money.

All the fakes in the industry keep promoting geniuses like Liver more , who was nothing more than a gambler , who became bankrupt several times.

The trading that is being taught nowadays , is likely to keep on producing the 95% or 99% losers, as suggested by profitable Joe.

 

[joetroscoe]

The trading industry's selling point is the turtles story , it is mainly sold to new traders .The trading hides or tries to hide and deceive new traders , into a false belief about trend trading.Those who can't fail to tell the truth , that it ended in tears for the myth of Richard Dennis , who was finally sued and lost a lot of money.

All the fakes in the industry keep promoting geniuses like Liver more , who was nothing more than a gambler , who became bankrupt several times.

The trading that is being taught nowadays , is likely to keep on producing the 95% or 99% losers, as suggested by profitable Joe.

Actually the trading industry's selling point is making fast riches. The turtles is about the psychology of traders moreso than anything else, and that is why most traders fail to make money. They simply are too human to trade well. It is not a bad thing, it just is. Trading is straight forward. Take a position that makes sense, and monitor your position. Give yourself a chance to make money and you will make money.

 

[foroom lluzers]

Actually the trading industry's selling point is making fast riches. The turtles is about the psychology of traders moreso than anything else, and that is why most traders fail to make money. They simply are too human to trade well. It is not a bad thing, it just is. Trading is straight forward. Take a position that makes sense, and monitor your position. Give yourself a chance to make money and you will make money.

The turtles story is about technical trading using some moving averages and breakouts.

Everything about the turtles story , that is being taught to new traders , does not include any psychology.They would start by saying "Richard Dennis could not follow his own rules , it was later proven when investors sued him".

 

[edmond360]

Psychology does not make you any money, it may stop you losing money out of stupidity. You don't need to focus on that, or teach it, or study it, not being stupid is a pretty straight-forward concept.

Predicting the future price of an asset is the only way to make money, this is so blindingly obvious it's amazing anybody can argue with it or believe the retail educators who specifically tell you not to focus upon "predicting the market". But unless you can do that, you will get no further than learning how not to lose money stupidly, in which case you might as well save yourself the effort and just leave your money with the bank.

 

[foroom lluzers]

My point is very clear , that the first thing a trader has to learn is psychology . Trader has to learn defensive trading first which can not be learnt without knowledge of psychology , learn not to lose first , if traders can do that success will come , provided they a half decent method.

If you know how to lose little or not lose , the profits will come .

 

[EnlightenedJoe]

If you lose , you realize how difficult the job is ,for average Joe , experience of losing teaches everything about real trading .It also helps you learn why there are so many Atons who teach .The trading industry produces more teachers , that can't , because as Anton said 99% lose.How can they teach successful trading , when most don't know how to trade profitably?

He could probably teach correct size. With that, it might give someone a chance. To find the correct size by one self could take years otherwise.

But trading successfully involve multiple factors. To make it in retail, the edge needed is significantly larger than what a typical bank trader joe has. This is the reason Anton don't trade for himself outside of a bank.

From joetroscoe's responses, I just have to conclude Anton offers only a marginal edge that would not be adequate for retail success.