Looking for Indicators That Suit Me

[Noitartst]

So far, in my quest for developing a system, this is what I've learned:

There seems little difference between bears and bulls--they both aspire to buy low and sell high, and everything about differentiating them complicates the matter.

I'm looking for indicators that help me do this, the best; following a prime one, followed by a secondary, seems to be what constitutes a system, coupled with money management.

Okay; just what should be the indicators ought to follow, given all I'm trying to do is buy low, and sell high? All the technical jargon seems to be obscuring this--now I understand this, though, it's helping me focus on what I'm trying to do.

There are five main ones for futures, right?

 

[Steven2805]

There are five main ones for futures, right... Wrong !!

Indicators as a whole are only there to confuse and delay, ever wondered why a broker will have banners advertising hundreds of indicators.. Because they waste your time and more importunity your money.

There is no super secret indicator that warns a high is coming or a low, indicators lag behind the price they have no future knowledge. Are they useful yes do people make money with them probably. But a strategy built around indicators is crazy, they are given away free because they of there limited use. Focus on Price analysis and walk away from the indicators. Trust me if a couple of indicators made it so I could see a high coming I would be a Billionaire by now

 

[Noitartst]

Okay...what is price analysis, in terms of futures trading, exactly? ANy examples? How to practice? It seems that to get a live stream on the internet does not come free, and that's a problem, given I'm poor.

 

[Pat494]

Learn to read charts correctly

 

[timsk]

Okay...what is price analysis, in terms of futures trading, exactly? ANy examples? How to practice? It seems that to get a live stream on the internet does not come free, and that's a problem, given I'm poor.

Hi Noitartst,
Looking at your post history, I sense that you're floundering somewhat, meandering around without a clear sense of direction. If I'm wrong - apologies! If there's any truth in this, then I suggest you go back to basics . . .

1. Decide on a market to trade, e.g. equities (stocks and shares), commodities (e.g. oil or gold) or forex. Think very carefully about this and don't just jump on the forex bandwagon because that's what most other traders appear to focus on.

2. Decide on the type of trader you wish to be: day trader, swing trader or position trader. When thinking about these options, take money out of the equation. Many newbies think they want to day trade in the mistaken belief that they'll make more money doing this than they will swing or position trading. You need to consider carefully your skills, personality and available time and base your decision around those things - not money.

3. Decide on your method of market analysis. Most T2W members use some form of Technical Analysis (TA), although it's quite a broad church with many conflicting opinions. For example, in the thread title you're asking about indicators. Many traders (who use charts) will tell you that indicators are the spawn of the devil and that you're better off not using any at all. So, if you opt to use TA, know which branch of it you're going to utilise and why.

Besides TA, there's fundamental analysis (FA) and quantitative analysis - the latter tends to be used in conjunction with TA or FA.

4. However you analyse the market, you'll need to decide on a general timeframe to trade it. So, if you're a day trader, are you aiming to be a smash 'n grab scalper trying to capture lots of small gains in trades that last no more than a few minutes (not recommended for a newbie), or are you trying to find the main trends of the day and ride those in trades that could last several hours or more?

5. Once you've given a lot of careful consideration to all the above, you can then start to drill down to developing a bespoke methodology of your own. This may or may not involve using indicators! Once you've decided on the above, it will then be easier for members to make specific suggestions in regard to any problems or issues that you may encounter.

HTH.
Tim.

 

[tomorton]

timsk's got it absolutely right. Remember strategy comes before tactics: its worth effort to make sure you're in the right war, before you decide how to split up your platoon.

Identify what sort of trading you can/wish to execute, this drives your decision on the right market(s), which helps you develop a trading system, which helps you select/customise the right charts, which help you decide which indicators you need. Come at the problem from the right direction to get the best result.

 

[Pat494]

All downhill from here with that class of advice imho
The beers are on you

 

[Steven2805]

Okay...what is price analysis, in terms of futures trading, exactly? ANy examples? How to practice? It seems that to get a live stream on the internet does not come free, and that's a problem, given I'm poor.

Price analysis is the core of technical analysis, I make a point to mention them separately because indicators often get bundled within TA which is a higher level skill.

So to understand price analysis we must first understand what technical analysis is, it's the process of using data on a chart to identify key points and patterns. This can be done via many different means some of which are Stochastic,MACD or even moving averages. However all those are indicators which as mentioned are lagging behind the price. It's not much good getting told there is a car crash after you have piled into the back of another car, learning price is like watching the cars break lights ahead and reacting before the pileup.

So you might be thinking well how the hell do I do that, some topics for research are "Support & Resistance, Price patterns, Candle patterns & Trend lines" those are more important to your success than any indicator will ever be. Learn to draw our own support & resistance don't cheat.

Your probably like every new trader, "I will find the secret and make millions" the cold hard truth is that trading will be one of the most difficult things you will ever attempt. Be 100% ready to lose all your initial investment and don't expect any major gains for at least 2 years if not longer.

Charts don't come free isn't my concern, a Uni degree doesn't come free either. If your planning to "invest" money in the markets then invest in your education first. Charts are a critical learning tool read up on trading and learn from the massive amount of information available.

How can someone who is poor start trading in the first place....

 

[Steven2805]

All downhill from here with that class of advice imho
The beers are on you

Nobody can judge your opinion because you have failed to voice any kind of response or reasoning. The purpose of a discussion thread is to discuss, perhaps you could elaborate as to why its "downhill".. who knows you might actually input something useful if you try.

 

[tomorton]

All downhill from here with that class of advice imho
The beers are on you

Many thanks, happy with that Pat494. Cheers!

 

[Noitartst]

How can someone who is poor start trading in the first place....

Hm...given what you and TImsk said, seems that right now, I'm too poor to even start to truly learn this, it sounds like. It takes money to buy an effective demo account, just to start any decent practicing, at all. Given that I'm on welfare with no savings, and $200 monthly spending cash, do you think I have any other realistic option?

 

[timsk]

Hm...given what you and TImsk said, seems that right now, I'm too poor to even start to truly learn this, it sounds like. It takes money to buy an effective demo account, just to start any decent practicing, at all. Given that I'm on welfare with no savings, and $200 monthly spending cash, do you think I have any other realistic option?

Hi Noitartst,
No, this is incorrect.

It doesn't cost a anything to learn to trade. There's a wealth of information right here on T2W - all of it completely free. Regarding demo accounts, various brokers let you open demo accounts without even registering with them. For example, Core Spreads is one I tried a week or two back as another member suggested them as they have low spreads. There are others. If you're wanting charting packages - there are lots that offer free end of day data: ProRealTime, StockCharts and Investing.com being just 3 out of many.

Whilst you're learning, not only do you not need to trade a live account - it's recommended that you don't have one. So, to learn to trade requires no money at all. Some members will argue that you only really learn what it's all about when you risk your own money. It's a very valid point but, between now and then, there's a huge amount you can do. Besides, the point really is that you learn about yourself when trading live funds, rather than about the markets. As and when you're ready to start trading live, there are brokerage firms who offer 'golden hellos' and will fund your account for you (to a greater or lesser extent), so your start up capital doesn't need to be large.

It's not for me to stick my nose into your personal circumstances or to give advice about what you should or shouldn't do. However, most experienced traders would advise anyone on welfare to focus on 'conventional' education and finding a 'normal' job first, and leave trading well alone until those things are sorted out. (This assumes you are able to work and not on disability benefits etc.) Certainly, if you're thinking of trading as being a way of bypassing those things and a fast track to an easy life - you're very much mistaken.

To conclude, learn to trade for free whilst devoting 90%+ of your time and efforts towards getting paid employment. Once you have a regular income and you've learnt to trade and are making gains consistently on a demo account, then consider trading the smallest sums possible on a live account. Only risk money you can afford to lose and don't be too surprised if you 'blow up' a few accounts trying (i.e. wipe them out completely), before you begin to make any real progress.

HTH.
Tim,

 

[Noitartst]

Okay. I tried a demo account with NinjaTrader, but it expired, and I couldn't renew it, though I tried. Do those you recommended automatically expire? If not, good. Do they?


I'm especially interested in the StockCharts one, given it's been recommended to me before. Hm...free 10day trial offer does not sound good.

Free charts tab...is that what you're talking about? If so, how do I use it to learn, or to be more direct, practice?

First off, I'm definitely not a scalper, but I am open to trry day trading, and don't think it too outside my personality to attempt learning it, first, though I'm probably more one of positions. As to the market to start learning, I'm not sure. I think i'll start with basic candlestick charts, given they're common, and I think I'm beginning to comprehend them.

For what I'm trying to do, does StockCharts give a tutorial? Also, for learning DayTrading, what what market ought I first learn?

 

[Pat494]

Try a free MT4 account. I have had mine for over a year - no problems.

 

[timsk]

Hi Noitartst,

Okay. I tried a demo account with NinjaTrader, but it expired, and I couldn't renew it, though I tried. Do those you recommended automatically expire? If not, good. Do they?

I've never used Ninja Trader, so I can't comment on that. All the charting providers linked in my post above are free for End of Day data - indefinitely as far as I'm aware. I don't know about Core Spreads - you'll have to contact them and ask them or just try it and see what happens.

I'm especially interested in the StockCharts one, given it's been recommended to me before. Hm...free 10day trial offer does not sound good.

The 10 day free trial will be for intra day data (as opposed to end of day) or if you require specialist tools. Neither of the above are necessary or particularly useful to someone starting out and learning the ropes. Walk before you try to run etc.

Free charts tab...is that what you're talking about? If so, how do I use it to learn, or to be more direct, practice?

First of all, you need to get a basic understanding of what the markets and how they function. Think of it like learning to drive: you wouldn't get in a car without first having an understanding of the pedals, indicators and lights etc., along with a basic understanding of the rules about driving. You need to know that you drive on the left (in the UK) and that you have to stop at red traffic lights. When they turn green, you can pull away in 1st gear. Try starting off in 4th gear and you won't get very far. And so it is with trading. With that in mind, start here: I’m New To TRADING – Where Do I Start?

First off, I'm definitely not a scalper, but I am open to trry day trading, and don't think it too outside my personality to attempt learning it, first, though I'm probably more one of positions. As to the market to start learning, I'm not sure. I think i'll start with basic candlestick charts, given they're common, and I think I'm beginning to comprehend them.

Apologies in advance if this sounds patronising, but don't even think about day trading until you've addressed the points made in my previous post. Apart from anything else, with no funds, you'll be limited in the type of brokerage account that you can open. Almost certainly, it will be with a spread bet broker. Many members will tell you categorically that's it's not possible to day trade with a SB firm. Even those who disagree with this and say it is possible will tell you that it's extremely hard and most definitely not the place for a newbie to start.

For what I'm trying to do, does StockCharts give a tutorial? Also, for learning DayTrading, what what market ought I first learn?

StockCharts is a charting provider, so they don't teach people how to trade. Any tutorials they offer are about how to use their charts. This is pretty much standard practice across the board. If you want someone to teach you, you'll probably have to pay for it. However, returning to the car analogy, would you really want to take driving lessons without first having a basic understanding of what a brake, accelerator and steering wheel are? If you go down the tutorial route, tread very carefully and be sure to read both these FAQs before parting with any money:
Can You Recommend a Mentor, Coach or Trading Course?
How Can I Distinguish Between Scams and Reputable Vendors?

Regarding the market to trade, I've already answered this on another thread of yours here.
Tim.

 

[Steven2805]

So assuming your trading stocks I would use.

http://www.freestockcharts.com/platform/v1
For information and charts

http://www.investopedia.com/simulator/
For trading platform, the investopedia simulator isn't great but alright to get an understanding. Ignore the challenge aspect of the simulator and focus on trading as you would with real money. which means no half a million dollar trades and maintaining strict risk levels.

Both links above are completely free and I think unlimited use.
If you want an education in trading avoid broker training courses is my advice and watch out for scams.

------
Note about links

I understand posting links to rival websites is against the rules, however as I understand it the above sites aren't considered rivals and the information provided does not line my pockets or place the OP at risk. If however the links do in some way violate T2W rules then just remove them

 

[rathcoole_exile]

just draw 2 horizontal lines on a chart, one above current price, one below.

Decide in advance what you will do if/when price touches a line, (ie, Buy or Sell)
including Risk:Reward exits points;

Sit very very patiently until one line is touched and execute your plan accordingly

 

[TwinToWin]

And when you think you've learned something repeat it many times to be sure.

Trading takes time...lots of it, so if your able to - read, test, repeat...

 

[Noitartst]

So assuming your trading stocks I would use.

http://www.freestockcharts.com/platform/v1
For information and charts

http://www.investopedia.com/simulator/
For trading platform, the investopedia simulator isn't great but alright to get an understanding. Ignore the challenge aspect of the simulator and focus on trading as you would with real money. which means no half a million dollar trades and maintaining strict risk levels.

Both links above are completely free and I think unlimited use.
If you want an education in trading avoid broker training courses is my advice and watch out for scams.

------
Note about links

I understand posting links to rival websites is against the rules, however as I understand it the above sites aren't considered rivals and the information provided does not line my pockets or place the OP at risk. If however the links do in some way violate T2W rules then just remove them

Thank you: I will look into utilizing these you've recommended. Only thing, is, I'm trying to trade futures, specifically; does www.freestockcharts.com do that?

 

[timsk]

Thank you: I will look into utilizing these you've recommended. Only thing, is, I'm trying to trade futures, specifically; does www.freestockcharts.com do that?

There's a clue in the site's name: freestockcharts! So, unless you're intending to trade single stock futures, the answer is probably no. That said, as a free resource and a tool to learn about TA and how prices move - it looks pretty good to me.
Tim.