Linux & Ninjatrader?

[mckaldey]

Hi All,

I just got my new PC with Vista and I have to say that I was shocked.

I really think about making the step over to a linux distribution, maybe Ubuntu which seems to be nice and simple.

I'm an absolute beginner on this and in regards to trading and software I have a question.

To emulate a software like Ninjatrader you need something like VMWare or Wine, true?

Would you guys recommend using a vital software that runs on an emulated basis?

What about lags or delays in general?

Is anyone experienced on this?

 

[fifty2aces]

What's the problem with Vista? I recently got a new PC with it as well, and it's been great - what are the specs of the new PC?

Edit: The biggest problems that people seem to have with it are:

1) Not enough memory - you really want 2GB of RAM to run smoothly.

2) Poor drivers - shouldn't be a massive problem, as they can be obtained for modern hardware - I had to go to the ATI website to get decent graphics card drivers. In fact, from what I hear about Linux, drivers are even more of an issue.

3) Early slowness - when you first get Vista, it does all sorts of background stuff, which can cause it to run a bit slowly at first - once you "break it in", it should be much quicker.

 

[mckaldey]

The ressources should not be the problem (Athlon Dual Core and 2 GB RAM), but I have to say that all this tacky stuff together with this crappy security applications really suck.

I have been a windows user for many years and knew that I had to immediately turn of lots of unnecessary stuff, but I think getting away from windows is a general process - not knowing, which problems a switch to linux would throw up...

 

[fifty2aces]

Yeah, the security stuff is annoying at first, but it calms down and stays in the background after a while. Just get a decent (i.e. not Norton) antivirus - I'd recommend ESET nod32.

 

[mckaldey]

Thanks for your help, I'm using AntiVir from free-av.de

In general, all this anti virus, anti spyware stuff really sucks.

Whatever, I will try Ubuntu on my old laptop, so I will see.

Would be interesting if someone trades live using linux with windows apps.

I have an IB account and running the book trader would be possible on linux, but there are other disadvantages I think.

 

[sambinho]

Depending on how serious a trader you are I wouldn't mess about with emulating Ninja via Linux, just get good old XP Pro on there instead. Job done.

If you were really particular about wanting to use/try Linux as your main OS, you can always dual boot XP & Ubuntu off the same hard drive.

Boot into XP as your trading platform, and Ubuntu as your everything else platform, etc.

 

[mckaldey]

Of course, this is true.

Maybe what I want is someone who says: "Yes, I'm using NT with VMWare and there is no delay and no problem at all."

Depending on how serious a trader you are I wouldn't mess about with emulating Ninja via Linux, just get good old XP Pro on there instead. Job done.

If you were really particular about wanting to use/try Linux as your main OS, you can always dual boot XP & Ubuntu off the same hard drive.

Boot into XP as your trading platform, and Ubuntu as your everything else platform, etc.

 

[dcraig1]

Of course, this is true.

Maybe what I want is someone who says: "Yes, I'm using NT with VMWare and there is no delay and no problem at all."

I don't know about NT, but I do know that VMWare in general works well. I was using it 7 years ago on a Linux laptop and it did everything required of it. I'm sure it would have moved on a long way by now. You might like to try one of the open source virtualizers eg Xen or KVM which is now in the standard kernel. Of course there is no free lunch and there will be some performance hit for any VM solution - maybe of the order of 10%: it will depend on the applications that you use.

NT may or may not work under Wine, but Wine can be tricky in getting Windows apps to work reliably. It's not the path I would go down.

If you do go for the virtualization option, I would suggest running the virtual machine that you use for NT under a separate Linux account. Don't surf the net in that account, use it for email or anything else. Just because your XP is running in a VM does not make it immune to malware, so normal Windows precautions still apply. However having NT as the only application running in a Windows WM should be a very secure option - far better than just running it on a normal XP box.

One bonus of running Windows in VM is that backup and restore becomes trivially simple.

 

[mckaldey]

Thanks dcraig, great post.

As an absolute newbie regarding linux I did not know that there is something like Xen or KVM.

I don't know about NT, but I do know that VMWare in general works well. I was using it 7 years ago on a Linux laptop and it did everything required of it. I'm sure it would have moved on a long way by now. You might like to try one of the open source virtualizers eg Xen or KVM which is now in the standard kernel. Of course there is no free lunch and there will be some performance hit for any VM solution - maybe of the order of 10%: it will depend on the applications that you use.

NT may or may not work under Wine, but Wine can be tricky in getting Windows apps to work reliably. It's not the path I would go down.

If you do go for the virtualization option, I would suggest running the virtual machine that you use for NT under a separate Linux account. Don't surf the net in that account, use it for email or anything else. Just because your XP is running in a VM does not make it immune to malware, so normal Windows precautions still apply. However having NT as the only application running in a Windows WM should be a very secure option - far better than just running it on a normal XP box.

One bonus of running Windows in VM is that backup and restore becomes trivially simple.

 

[Jim Castle]

OK i found your post as im wanting to do the same thing, i joined to read this and another post- i have ubuntu and wine installed, and trade eminis as a friend is with traders international who are pretty sweet, although im trying to get hold of puretick cant email them?? Anyway im waiting on my broker to email me some ninja stuff he said he'd give me a sim account, ill remember this and post back

 

[rawrschach]

It may work, but on a personal note, I would never trade through an application away from its native OS - you want it to be as fast and bug free as possible.

 

[DBurke]

What's the problem with Vista? I recently got a new PC with it as well, and it's been great - what are the specs of the new PC?

Edit: The biggest problems that people seem to have with it are:

1) Not enough memory - you really want 2GB of RAM to run smoothly.

2) Poor drivers - shouldn't be a massive problem, as they can be obtained for modern hardware - I had to go to the ATI website to get decent graphics card drivers. In fact, from what I hear about Linux, drivers are even more of an issue.

3) Early slowness - when you first get Vista, it does all sorts of background stuff, which can cause it to run a bit slowly at first - once you "break it in", it should be much quicker.

HAHA That's the funniest thing I've read on this forum so far.

Wine will not run NT well enough to trade on, let alone trade seriously. Time is needed there. WineHQ - NinjaTrader 6.5

Vista is your second least favourable choice. A VM setup with XP like others suggested is the better option. Using Virtualbox the XP install can be integrated into your linux desktop without running in it's own window. I have the setup running right now, but I don't run NT trader on it. I'll be setting that up in the next few days and seeing how well things play together. I'll post back and let you know, but whatever you do don't listen to fifty2aces. lol wtf man... 2GB to run smoothly? hahahaha

 

[fifty2aces]

HAHA That's the funniest thing I've read on this forum so far.

Wine will not run NT well enough to trade on, let alone trade seriously. Time is needed there. WineHQ - NinjaTrader 6.5

Vista is your second least favourable choice. A VM setup with XP like others suggested is the better option. Using Virtualbox the XP install can be integrated into your linux desktop without running in it's own window. I have the setup running right now, but I don't run NT trader on it. I'll be setting that up in the next few days and seeing how well things play together. I'll post back and let you know, but whatever you do don't listen to fifty2aces. lol wtf man... 2GB to run smoothly? hahahaha

Thanks for bringing back this year old thread - are you saying that 2GB is excessive (tbh memory is so cheap nowadays that you may as well get too much), or that 2GB will not allow vista to run smoothly (I've been managing very well for 18 months)?

 

[NetTecture]

Well, some thigns to start.

* You hardware sucks. "The hardware should not be the problem" together with 2 GB Ram today is not exactly a good approach.
* What exactly do you try to solve here? Get rid of Vista (or whatever windows). Bad news - what stupid sense does it make to move the platform OS to Linux.... and then to run VIsta in a VM again? All the things you are afraid of are there again then. Wine - woul be one thing, but if you are challenged by Windows.... then.... with VmWare, on Linux, you are STILL challenged by Windows. Nothing changes.
* Better get used and good to it. I can understand some programmer freak not liking Linux etc., but unless someone comes up with a good trading platform for Linux, the platform for you is Windows - deal with it. As a trader you are in it to make money.

Hints mid term:
* WIndows 7 RC works like charm with Ninja (do so myself) and the final is out in some weeks, though you have to have IT connections to get it until it is in the shops. Faster and easier to use.
* Windows 7 specifically allows booting from FILES, not discs (virtual hard discs files on the native disc), which means it is possible to... have multiple OS installs without the pain of partitions.
* Want to really trade? Well, here is something: Computers are cheap. Get a second one. I have 2 computers on my desk - one for work, one for.... Trading. Only. Well, I do surf on it, but only selected sites (basically: only to the support site of ninja, because then I can copy/paste code when I need help, or my email system, same reason). A separate computer (and get one that is at least 4gb ram, come on) is not exactly expensive compared to what you run in investments.