Level 2 Screen Use is DEAD !

It seams to me if some one posted and kept update todate the AXE on the 100 NAS stocks then thats all one need to know...

Q: AFter one of NAZ trading sessions how would one work out which MM is the AXE on a stock, without having to watch the stock for months...or getting the response "thats comes with experience"..."or thats going to cost you another $500 bucks !"...

This is what needs to be done...POST 20 stocks, with AXE for each stock and have the T2Win readers study and play and post there learnings on this site...

Remove the mystery of which MM is the AXE and I am sure that newbies will have more chance of understanding how to use level 2.

Or maybe the knowledge of which MM is the AXE is the best way coaches can get monies for there training....just guessing...

Ok lets be nice,....
 
Q: AFter one of NAZ trading sessions how would one work out which MM is the AXE on a stock, without having to watch the stock for months...or getting the response "thats comes with experience"..."or thats going to cost you another $500 bucks !"...
Click to expand...

More likely to be £ 500 than $ 500
 
Level II.... Mmmmm. Well I (continue) to pay for it, though I find myself using it less & less.

As for who's the Ax/Axe (never been convinced which spelling is right) I would suggest that http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/static/tdhome.stm is the best starting point to see who is churning the most volume on a stock. Of course it doesn't necessarily figure that the biggest overall monthly/yearly volume player will be working a stock at any one time, though I believe it's helpful to know which MM's have an interest.

Frankly, I would suggest dumping stocks and put your effort into working Spot or FX futures - much more fun (read much more money).

Must stop now - got to go and buy a boat.
 
If everyone knew how to use Level II and in fact did so, then those who use it now would presumably lose their cutting edge. So you have to ask yourself whether teachers, trainers, coaches of Level II ( call em what you like ) are really sincere about teaching people how to use Level II properly and whether they are in fact on the Level ( II).

Beats me why they bother to teach it anyway when they can make much more money from a day's trading ( using Level II of course ) than from a 121 session.

" Love of teaching one's fellow traders" just does not wash.
 
"If everyone knew how to use Level II and in fact did so, then those who use it now would presumably lose their cutting edge. So you have to ask yourself whether teachers, trainers, coaches of Level II ( call em what you like ) are really sincere about teaching people how to use Level II properly and whether they are in fact on the Level ( II).

Beats me why they bother to teach it anyway when they can make much more money from a day's trading ( using Level II of course ) than from a 121 session. "

Agreed. As with Mr C, I have been on the BB's since they began and am becoming very annoyed at people expecting free lunches. I am not interested in the slightest in teaching my L2 trading techniques and am very surprised that people do (I am also annoyed that people are openly sharing tactics). I have been on a serious edge for 18 months now with certain techniques and I'm not sharing openly. If somebody wants to see how I trade they can come to the south of France and I will show them, but there will be no handouts, just you watch me trade and ask questions when I'm not trading. If it's a friend for free if not we'll agree a fee.

If you want to acquire knowledge and an edge you need the brains to do it yourself or if want to learn how others do it then by all means go on a course(s). In my experience those who can’t do it themselves (after getting a flavour) generally aren’t capable of sustainable gains. Harsh I know but that’s how I see it.
 
Mr Euro,

I am also annoyed that people are openly sharing tactics
Click to expand...

What else would you expect from a public bulletin board dedicated to furthering the knowledge of how to trade in all its types and forms ?

And why are you annoyed at this anyway as I dont see how it adversely affects how you trade ?

I dont see any problem in giving people some knowledge on a subject as I have and almost everyone else has done. But I havent said how I use Level II and all I have done is given an example of a possible interpretation which is readily available all over the internet so it is hardly a trade secret.

Did you teach yourself or did you go for tuition ?



Paul
 
If I want to give the full details of how I trade and make it freely available then that is my choice to make not Mr Euros.

JonnyT
 
Mr Euro said:
As with Mr C, I have been on the BB's since they began and am becoming very annoyed at people expecting free lunches. I am not interested in the slightest in teaching my L2 trading techniques and am very surprised that people do (I am also annoyed that people are openly sharing tactics). I have been on a serious edge for 18 months now with certain techniques and I'm not sharing openly. If somebody wants to see how I trade they can come to the south of France and I will show them, but there will be no handouts, just you watch me trade and ask questions when I'm not trading. If it's a friend for free if not we'll agree a fee.
Click to expand...

Mr. Euro - these BBs appear mostly to be used by traders seeking advice and openly sharing tactics. As they do with you. What's your annoyance at this - the fact it's given freely or that it's given at all?

That you choose not to freely reciprocate is up to you. However, I think some may feel that it's you that's benefiting from the 'free lunch'.
 
Dow Dog

If you go to Monthly Share Volume page at http://www.nasdaqtrader.com/static/tdhome.stm and enter the symbol into the box in Step 1 hit enter and it will give you a list sorted by volume of the biggest volume MM's for the stock in question over the previous 2 months and the year to date. You can even enter the MM ID instead of a stock symbol and it will show you which stocks the MM is working on . From this you can reasonably derive who the Ax and Seconadry Ax is.

Is it useful on it's own? I believe that if you are using LII to time your exit/entries then it's definitey helpful to see what the big boys are doing at that time and this is one way of seeing who the big boys are for that stock. I personally have found the info more useful on less volatile stocks where the MM's footprint is easier to follow. Trying to follow MSFT, INTC etc is bewildering because there are potentially too many significant players at any one time who may only have a transitory interest.

In the end it's just another potential factor to consider alongside all of the other nearly helpful rubbish.
 
On the Level II screen , is AMEX a marketmaker or ECN ?

I ask this because I can never see it listed as a Market maker anywhere although I have assumed it must be American Express ??????
 
In order to assist me with my use of Level II, I have made up a spreadsheet which shows, for my dozen core trading stocks, the top 3 market makers per stock based on volumes traded year to date. It also shows for each market maker the percentage of the total volume traded for that stock year to date.

This enables me to see at a glance just how influential each market maker is, eg. SCHB has traded around 24% of the total RIMM stock traded this year and between them the top 3 market makers for RIMM have traded around 40% of the total RIMM stock this year.

So when I trade RIMM and I see some or all of these 3 mm's near the top of the Level II leaderboard, I know that they are probably controlling the action.

Also if I see the top 3 for any stock clustered together at approximately the same bid price level with significant size, then I assume that there is a fair probability that the price will gravitate to this level and use this level as my preferred trade entry level.

I don't know if my assumptions are correct but this is how I am currently looking at Level II and making some basic use of it.

Any comments would be welcome.
 
Looks like an interesting line of development Salty.

How did you compile the YTD volumes for the MMs?
 
Also by watching the actions of the top market makers I guess Level II could be used as a momentum indicator. ie. when the order volumes for these guys starts moving quickly then watch out cos we are likely to be on the move, one way or the other.

I am just trying to find a good practical way that Level II may help me.
 
naz - how does level 2 help you spot hidden orders which is wot most wiv large orderzsuse?

can u relly tell what the real depth is?
 
50-70% of nazdaq volume is done by automated computers not men. most mm are computers now, not men. most automated systems throw 100 lots round like confetti makin a buck a time, but trading 5 mil times a day across all market. ok not every trade wins as usual.
 
I'm feeling confused about the discussion of "who is the ax?" I know that you are talking about who is the largest buyer/seller of the stock, and that this person/computer is usually a market maker. The Level II screens allow them to show/not show there hand - according to their own plans and desires. Is this sometimes referred to as "the smart money," or the "commercial traders"?

The reason I ask is because I'm not clear about who's doing the bulk of the trading on NASDQ or futures, or forex or whatever. I was under the impression that independent traders (sitting at home with their computers?) make up a very small fraction of the total market. Like a cloud of annoying gnats or flies that hang around a herd of cows.

Isn't the bulk of the money that is in the stock market now in the hands of mutual fund and pension plan managers? Aren't they the smart money, or the commercial/institutional players?

dbphoenix has started a thread on price and volume in the general trading chat area, and I thought I read one of his posts where he insisted that volume was volume, no matter who was buying and selling...

Feel free to enlighten me oh wise and learned ones....
Thanks in advance,
JO
 
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