Is trading institutionally sexist?

[Directional]

I dunno if the mods can clarify from their T2W members survey data what the actual ratio of T2W female vs male members actually is? That might be an interesting yardstick for this discussion.

When I was at refco, I think there was only about three women traders in an office of 200+ men.

I know we have *some* women who trade here on T2W, and some look like they are consistently profitable too (thinking jillyB and her journal), but it seems to me that a similar-ish ratio to the floor at refco holds true, ie: about 1.5% ladies to men ratio.

Any thoughts as to why this is?

I dont want to scare off any of our female traders by making sexist comments, but I'll make a few "unbiased" observations for discussion:

could it be that the fairer sex intrinsically lack the agression and risk propensity that seem to be a requirement in the "survival of the fittest" pure capitalism that drives the markets?

or is the industry institutionally sexist? i know the exchanges never used to allow women on the floor up to was it the 80's - and from the sounds of it the floor was a rough & tumble place to be anyway. Would the fact that a floor like Refco has 200 sweaty cussing male traders be enough to put a woman off from considering trading there?

Is the whole industry including data, brokers and press so used to a male dominated business that they pretty much target men to the exclusion of women?

Or is trading just no place for a woman to be anyway? :cheesy:

All thoughts from both sides welcome....

 

[crazy trader]

From my point of view having two younger sister and studying effectively the fairer sex. For whatever reason women tend to steer clear of risky types of jobs.

Look at the percentage that race cars. Take a look on the ski slopes. Look at the percentage that are policemen. Yes there are a few, but far fewer than the proper ratio of male to female gender. From my unscientific study I would say that those jobs that require high levels of aggression are occuppied by males. My main thought on this may be a pure mental wiring issue dating back to caveman times.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[trendie]

JillyB, Bunnygirl, HelenQ, Skimbleshanks??

Alternatively, women are possibly better in that they may be better at not taking trading personally, and perhaps hold on long enough to become profitable.
I am basing this on the newbie-traders propensity to take losses personally, and "want to get even".
Equally, men perhaps identify their worth with their job, such that having a job such as racing cars is their identitiy, rather than being a guy who happens to race cars. So, their sense of welf-worth is inextricably linked with how much they make, or dont.

The benefits of not having to deal with sweaty cussing men by trading from home provides a mechanism for women to trade without any institutional bias - clearly a good thing.
Perhaps, this question could be better answered by SB companies, and whether they could data-mine any details about their clients gender and profitability.

Another twist to crazy traders point about women and risk-aversion, this could be seen as risk-appropriateness. In that, they make a better assessment of risk in relation to reward, and act accordingly.
good morning!!

 

[garethb]

Whilst trading firms and the atmosphere of a trading floor are probably a sexist environments, the career of independent private trader trading own money from home is one of the least sexist jobs available. Nobody need know your gender and an exchange will fill the orders according to a strict algorithm regardless of the gender of the person who generated them.

Since there are many better qualified on this site to talk about the city firms I will stick to private traders. I think there are probably many more men who try private trading. This is probably because we are opinionated, aggressive, greedy and want to earn loads of money for little effort. We are probably far less pragmatic and realistic than women. I would be interested (although we will never know) how the ratio of attmepted traders by gender compares with the ratio of successful traders by gender. My own suspicion, based on conversations with a number of successful and learning traders is that the proportion of women who succeed may be higher than men. They do seem to find it easier to detach ego from each individual trade outcome and perhaps they are just more realistic before they even start out - making them more likely to succeed

 

[timsk]

JillyB, Bunnygirl, HelenQ, Skimbleshanks??

Of these 4 ladies, only JillyB is active on T2W, I believe? Perhaps the others have got hacked off with all us blokes!

On a general note, I wonder if there are similarities with driving. Men like to think that they are better drivers than women. They tend to have greater awareness of what's going on around them, are better at judging spaces and distances etc. and a fascination with the workings of the internal combustion engine giving them a better understanding of the machine. Of course I generalise massively but, broadly speaking, men are better drivers - on paper. Now add Testosterone to the mix and the picture changes dramatically! The consequences of this are accidents, fines and higher insurance premiums. I suspect the same applies to trading. Men may be a nose in front of women on paper without the dreaded Testosterone but, with it, women have more than a nose, they are miles ahead. The problem us blokes have is that we can't really do without the big T. So, we're ever so slighly ****ered, me thinks.

Tim.

 

[ammo]

race tracks ,sports and bars are also more male weighted,maybe trading is like a sport

 

[JumpOff]

Seems to me we won't really know for several generations. I'm thinking about how painful it was to watch women's college basketball 15 years ago, and wondering what it will be like when the daughters and nieces of this generation's players take the court.

Most people get into the field they choose because they have an adult mentor already there. People used to say 'woman doctor' as though med schools awarded diplomas in pink and blue. The times, they are a changing, but we might not see it cause it's right in front of our eyes.

There is a great book called 'legging the spread' about a woman who clerked at the Chicago Merc as an undercover way to write a book about trading. It's 10 years old I think. It would be interesting to see what has changed, what has stayed the same.
JO

 

[Racer]

On a general note, I wonder if there are similarities with driving. Men like to think that they are better drivers than women. They tend to have greater awareness of what's going on around them, are better at judging spaces and distances etc. and a fascination with the workings of the internal combustion engine giving them a better understanding of the machine. Of course I generalise massively but, broadly speaking, men are better drivers - on paper. Now add Testosterone to the mix and the picture changes dramatically! The consequences of this are accidents, fines and higher insurance premiums. I suspect the same applies to trading. Men may be a nose in front of women on paper without the dreaded Testosterone but, with it, women have more than a nose, they are miles ahead. The problem us blokes have is that we can't really do without the big T. So, we're ever so slighly ****ered, me thinks.

Tim.

I couldn't have put it better myself ROFL

 

[timsk]

I couldn't have put it better myself ROFL

Cheers Racer!
For those who are interested in the male:female ratio of T2W members; of the few ladies that regularly contribute to these boards, I would like to go on record as saying that Racer is a class act who should be on your 'buddy list' - if she isn't already. Yes, she is a she which makes her special - obviously, but besides the boy/girlie stuff, I believe she is also a very fine trader.
Tim.

 

[Directional]

lol - whether in cars or trading or life in general, it seems that us men are always engaged in a metaphorical dick measuring contest of some sort :cheesy:

That doesnt mean that girls cant be "big swinging dicks" in trading tho, just that so far it seems that they dont have the general inclination towards becoming one.

 

[MAmijee232]

It is not sexist, its just that more males tend to 'play' with the stock market. Maybe because they have a greater apetite for risk than women. It will change though, women are taking over the finance world!

 

[CityTrader]

Very few women traders on the Trading Floors in the City - most of them are sales or sales trading. In fact in 20 year in The City, I cant remember one sucessful female trader. Sorry ladies...