Watch the video again and pay attention. His friend clearly laughs at Tom for losing money in 2013 (and previous years). It's more than just a 'suggestion'. I was being kind. And Tom is clearly in AWE of the fact that Karen managed to make +27.5% and +24% in her respective accounts in 2013. It's so sad it's a joke.
Watch the video again and pay attention. His friend clearly laughs at Tom for losing money in 2013 (and previous years). It's more than just a 'suggestion'. I was being kind. And Tom is clearly in AWE of the fact that Karen managed to make +27.5% and +24% in her respective accounts in 2013. It's so sad it's a joke.
Who cares...nobody here cares what he did that year but you. Find anywhere where he talks about how great his returns are and then I'll be impressed. He never talks about that....ever. And that, to me, is impressive. He never talks about how great he does to sell his ideas. He just shows the research and the numbers and strategy....and they give it away.
And ye he is impressed with the amount of delta risk she takes on....he has said he could never do that. And anybody might be impressed with the kind of returns she gets with the kind of scale she is using using the same retail trading platform we all use....sheesh....What's your point with this divergence from the subject at hand? Your beating a dead horse here. Show me the research that shows where they are wrong. Add something of value to the discussion. Straw man tactics are irrelevant where actual probabilities are concerned.
CostaKapo
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You seem pretty hung up on whether or not Tom made/makes money trading. I don't think you can refute the guy has made a living via trading and has made more money doing it for a longer period of time than you, I or AC - or anyone on this forum has.
No one is going to convince you that options aren't gambling. That much is apparent. If you want to think of it as gambling, and in a derogatory sense go ahead. The fact is, hedge funds were created because of derivatives. Derivitives came, and regulators didnt allow AM firms that have REITS, UT's and Mutual Funds to have margin or options so hedge funds were created.
Everyone knows FOREX is the largest market, and that the Bond market is larger than Equities and then derivatives come in far behind but that doesn't mean because open interest isn't in the hundreds of millions that the probabilities aren't what they are.
You can flip a coin 5 times and get heads 5 times, that doesn't mean I am going to bet all my money I am getting tails the next time. The coin has no memory and the probability is still 50/50. If I keep flipping the coin 50,000 times can bet you will get close to 50/50 probabilities.
I have seen absolutely no proof that Tom is a great trader. He was a market maker and part of a team who developed and sold a piece of software. Now he is trying to make money promoting another piece of software.
I have add something of immense value to this thread. I have warned people that if you are going to gamble in options, whether it be gambling on naked puts or gambling with credit spreads that you should be very aware that you are gambling and keep it light. And that is exactly what practically every options expert says; KEEP IT SMALL, or eventually you will pay the price.
I never said you couldn't make money with options. Just don't get cocky. The fact that you have been shooting your mouth off about your 'gold watches' and that you 'wouldn't get out of bed for less than 20% a year' is not a good sign.
Tom was shocked by the massive risks Karen took in 2013 and she still couldn't even beat the SP500. A lot of fund managers don't beat the market every year, but they also don't take the kinds of risks Karen took. And if she was not taking massive risks then why was Tom going on about how he wouldn't have been able to sleep at night if he took the kinds of risks Karen was taking. These are called... clues.
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CostaKapo
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I don't know what your experience is with institutional traders is, but you don't have a 25 year career as a trader with an insitution like the CBOE without being good.
CostaKapo
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Your lack of attention to detail is showing. AC never said anything about gold watches, that was lloyds. I suggest you take a peak through any of ACs posts and you will see more knowledge and intelligence than most of the other posters.
Excuse me for a very minor mistake and for not hanging on the every word of gambling addicts. They are horses of the same color.
" Me and Lloyd could fade each other on a directional play and both of us make money....wrap your mind around that one."
Tom was not a professional trader. He was a professional market maker. There is a big difference.
CostaKapo
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Semantics. If you don't think market makers know how to trade than I don't know what to tell you
Wikipedia----"A straw man is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.
In the United Kingdom the argument is also known as an Aunt Sally, after the pub game of the same name where patrons throw sticks or battens at a model of an old woman's head.[4][5]"
Your speculations and points about those traders are irrelevant.
Warning everyone that probability trading is "just gambling" (like everything else isn't) without providing any sort of evidence beyond your opinion is not adding anything of value to the conversation.
Tastytrade (free of charge) provides research, data and strategy that is actionable and useful and invest-able. Your opinions are not. Feel free to share any research or data that supports your arguments. If you cannot effectively articulate a basis for your opinion and provide data to support it then I'm not really interested.
The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]
This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged emotional issues where a fiery, entertaining "battle" and the defeat of an "enemy" may be more valued than critical thinking or understanding both sides of the issue.
In the United Kingdom the argument is also known as an Aunt Sally, after the pub game of the same name where patrons throw sticks or battens at a model of an old woman's head.[4][5]"
Your speculations and points about those traders are irrelevant.
Warning everyone that probability trading is "just gambling" (like everything else isn't) without providing any sort of evidence beyond your opinion is not adding anything of value to the conversation.
Tastytrade (free of charge) provides research, data and strategy that is actionable and useful and invest-able. Your opinions are not. Feel free to share any research or data that supports your arguments. If you cannot effectively articulate a basis for your opinion and provide data to support it then I'm not really interested.
lloydbee
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Actually even I didn't say anything about gold watches ha ha there was no mention of gold anywhere.
But this whole thread is now tiresome and nothing constructive is becoming of it lately.
Regardless of who says what about trading options or should I say gambling with options I will always continue to trade options as they provide my family with a great lifestyle. I produced 5 trades the other week that all paned out and I can do 5 more and 5 more after that. Rather than turning this thread into a he says she says all the doubters should fire up a virtual platform and try trading Karens style for 6 months or better yet a year and confirm to themselves, others and anyone interested in whether it works or not. That would be more constructive than continuously saying that trading options is nothing but gambling and wont work long term.
If you or anyone is a non believer in options and not willing to try via virtual then move right along and leave this thread for actual real constructive talk or interest in/of Karens style of trading or let it become historic.
I think what got Tom excited was the mere fact Karen trades with such large amount of capital and is a mere retail trader. That alone is impressive unless someone knows of another person that has +300million in their account!
lloydbee
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the mention of that makes me giddee*
ask to share our strategy to sell premium on option trading
Hello,
I am option trader and living in UK,I am doing based on Karen strategy, however to define a range of my trade I use technical analysis such as Elliot wave and momentum indicator and channels and trying to work on limited size to manage my risk. I am teaching technical analysis but I am very keen to exchange my experiences with others to improve my skills. Looking forward to hearing from you.
my email: [email protected]
Best Regards,
Mandana
Hello,
I am option trader and living in UK,I am doing based on Karen strategy, however to define a range of my trade I use technical analysis such as Elliot wave and momentum indicator and channels and trying to work on limited size to manage my risk. I am teaching technical analysis but I am very keen to exchange my experiences with others to improve my skills. Looking forward to hearing from you.
my email: [email protected]
Best Regards,
Mandana
First, SHE doesn't bill herself as 'super trader'. That moniker was given to her by the Tasty Trade team. In fact, she doesn't even like the name. Second, if she's about marketing, where is the webpage? Where are the seminars? Where's the book tour? Etc., etc.
Don't be a hater.
cmipilot is right. Karen doesn't need to promote anything as she doesn't need any more money than she is making with her trading. She is not one who gives up trading because they can't and rips of so many newbies as so many 'trainers' do.. She has just agreed to 3 (or is it 4 now) interviews with what I understand to be, or have been, her broker, before he sold out to Ameritrade, who sold out to TD Waterhouse who have banned anyone in the UK from using the think or swim software as such trading might interfere with TDW's UK business - I don't see how as without it I would never use TDW. Anyway, how Karen got from about $600K to $200million in just 3 (or was it 4) years hasn't been explained to me - that I don't question. The amazing thing is that with all the up/down movements in the market in 2013 she, classed as a private trader, was still able to generate 27% return. Which on one hand doesn't sound a big options trading profit (but bigger than mine last year) - its the fact that she is able to manage an account size of $200m which is quite amazing in many ways.
CostaKapo
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Registers in 2006 and doesn't say a word and then drops this bomb 8 years later :clap::clap:
She is difficult to track even using her real name. She does no marketing whatsoever!
CostaKapo
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You have that flipped TDA purchased TDW - well actually TDA was originally First Omaha Securities, Inc. known as Accutrade - fast forward through many acquisitions you have Ameritrade Holding Corporation which bought TD Waterhouse from TD Financial Group.
CostaKapo
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I wanted to add an update to this thread as it is still as relevant today as it was last year.
http://quantlabs.net/blog/2015/10/w...-postgres-sql-iqfeed-and-interactive-brokers/
http://quantlabs.net/blog/2015/10/w...-postgres-sql-iqfeed-and-interactive-brokers/
Such a shame that the link CostaKapo provided - thanks anyway - is to just about the worst presenter I've seen on Utube. He um's and r's so much that I have no idea what he is talking about.
Somewhere I came across another link to a quality professional and presenter who also ran through his understanding of Karen's trading BUT I didn't have time to watch/listen to much of it and can't find it again - can anybody advise?
Somewhere I came across another link to a quality professional and presenter who also ran through his understanding of Karen's trading BUT I didn't have time to watch/listen to much of it and can't find it again - can anybody advise?
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