TOTW Is it better to trade with or against the trend?

neil

Legendary member
5,167 750
Crystal bolls

Yes, ******** it is... without precisely understanding what traders need to do. (Edit: I didn't know it would blank out the word... Let's use your spelling of Bollix)

What they MUST do is Buy lower than they Sell, whether Long or Short; so they want their post-Entry price movement to make them profitable. Problem is they are predicting a future outcome, largely based upon what they observe in the past, or some patterns thereof.

Definition: The Trend is an expectation based upon where price has moved in the past, and every trader on the planet with a price feed sees that. (I work in Forex). Traders Hope that this established past price movement will continue, invoking the concept of Momentum so prices are like bowling balls.

I'm an active Micro Scalper but, due to the fractal nature of markets, the same price patterns exist at the Micro level as exist on the Macro level and the same problem of "predicting the future outcome" continues to apply.

My advice is to have Indicators which reliably tell you what will happen in the Future. Now that's a tall order !! But what I do know is that one good approach is to Enter on Pullbacks which, for me is the idea that we do not take the Price which the Market is offering us, but take the higher probability retracement friendly prices which occur on "deflection" of the market.

Here's my Mantra: "The price which is currently being offered by the Market is a bad price for BOTH Buyers and Sellers." So "catch price on a deflection" countertrend pullback to enter based upon what you believe the True future price movement will be !!

Do I need a Crystal Ball? Ha ha, but seriously trading is predicting the future, and enduring "price wiggle" which is all engineered by Market Makers to thoroughly confuse traders.

HyperScalper
I will not say you are writing "Bollox" but , as you are a vendor, one wonders if you are preparing to sell "Fairy Dust" to those who pass through this site unaware that a few more brain cells would insulate them against the purveyors of dreams on this, and other, sites.:whistling
 

hyperscalper

Member
89 10
With all due respect, not picking any fights here. But those of you who talk about Forex resolutions of 3 pips most likely have no idea what you're talking about. I Micro-Scalp Forex on LMAX and I use Raw tick pricing, and highly specialized analytics plus Order Entry to profit from these small moves. It just ain't possible for "normal" "bar based" manual traders to trade at these resolutions.

Like I said, with all due respect !! We can discuss, but I know micro scalping which is defined as 2-10 pips or so range...

Just for giggles you can watch this video to get an idea. This is NOT advertising, just giving you an idea what those small pip moves in Forex precision really require from several perspectives.

tinyurl.com slash kcbtb6d

HyperScalper
 

itspossible

Senior member
2,796 569
I will not say you are writing "Bollox" but , as you are a vendor, one wonders if you are preparing to sell "Fairy Dust" to those who pass through this site unaware that a few more brain cells would insulate them against the purveyors of dreams on this, and other, sites.:whistling
I hope u aint refering to me-////Trading with the trend is the way to go////
hillbilly-man-bad-teeth-830x553.jpg
 
Last edited:

hyperscalper

Member
89 10
I will not say you are writing "Bollox" but , as you are a vendor, one wonders if you are preparing to sell "Fairy Dust" to those who pass through this site unaware that a few more brain cells would insulate them against the purveyors of dreams on this, and other, sites.:whistling

I used to have some sort of "vendor" status, but not any more. Purveying software to the average trader is not a profitable business. I'm just a "lousy trader" like all the rest of you now !! We set up our own proprietary trading business, no more "client chasing". Like any trader, I'm always interested in learning more, and in sharing information with the curious :)

HyperScalper
 

neil

Legendary member
5,167 750
News Flash

With all due respect, not picking any fights here. But those of you who talk about Forex resolutions of 3 pips most likely have no idea what you're talking about. I Micro-Scalp Forex on LMAX and I use Raw tick pricing, and highly specialized analytics plus Order Entry to profit from these small moves. It just ain't possible for "normal" "bar based" manual traders to trade at these resolutions.

Like I said, with all due respect !! We can discuss, but I know micro scalping which is defined as 2-10 pips or so range...

Just for giggles you can watch this video to get an idea. This is NOT advertising, just giving you an idea what those small pip moves in Forex precision really require from several perspectives.

tinyurl.com slash kcbtb6d

HyperScalper

Well -if you are not going to be annoyed and goaded into a "slanging match" which draws in the crowds, then I have to agree that "entering on a pullback" is a profitable approach.
Merry Christmas to all my readers.
 

Attachments

  • bad santa.jpg
    bad santa.jpg
    40.5 KB · Views: 112
  • Like
Reactions: BSD

hyperscalper

Member
89 10
Well -if you are not going to be annoyed and goaded into a "slanging match" which draws in the crowds, then I have to agree that "entering on a pullback" is a profitable approach.
Merry Christmas to all my readers.

Yes, a sensible attitude. Anybody would have to be really stupid to trade against the trend. Or what they believe the trend to be, as it relates to where they hope the price will be moving to result in their personal profitability.

Let's "draw in the crowds" by Violently agreeing that any techniques, such as "making the market come to your price" can improve your outcomes slightly as a general matter.

But really making a BIG difference in your trading outcomes means reliably predicting future price, either with your Magic Crystal Ball (not recommended) or with some fancy Analytics which tell you (somehow) where the price is moving with as high a probability as possible. That's really the only thing which ultimately matters, whether you are able to Buy lower than you Sell to ensure your survival.

I can get nearly 100% Win Rates, if I trade for 1.0 pips, with mechanical triggering. However, although that is possible, it is not a good way to approach trading and it's much better to be able to go for the bigger wins.

HyperScalper
 

Fugazsy

Veteren member
3,661 677
the trend, not easy to define... and a PB can be a beginner of the other direction and more likely can end up in a no no zone or range.

A trend for me is the direction of the least resistance at that moment of time in my TF, I will also try to determine that level of least resistance when into a range or a pause, is the range gently making HH"s and HL's ?

I prefer to enter in a PB only if is confirmed with a confirmation of what I perceive is the direction of least resistance and I usually use classic chart pattern with a BO that confirms that required confirmation: flags pennants, triangles, channels, wedges, H&S continuations and so on....

I also give a great deal of importance at the price action at the moment of confirmation or BO out of the pattern. I like to see a clear and define bar of what I define as a trend bar.

When the market is perceived as range, which is most of the time, I will try to fade the new extreme with a second entry if the push to the extreme is quite strong, wedges or 3 push ups.

Markets do shift from trend to range, trend to trend and range to trend at any time.

For me determine that condition is essential to take advantage of the market.
 
Last edited:

Trader333

Moderator
8,659 984
There is a lot of money to be made counter trend trading in my view and the key is knowing when to take the opposite position of a trend which is a skill in itself. It can and is done but is not as obvious when to enter as some would have you believe.
 

hyperscalper

Member
89 10
There is a lot of money to be made counter trend trading in my view and the key is knowing when to take the opposite position of a trend which is a skill in itself. It can and is done but is not as obvious when to enter as some would have you believe.

I am holding my breath, literally, until you give us some more details how you do it!! We promise not to copy your technique..... Help us become better.
HyperScalper
 

Fugazsy

Veteren member
3,661 677
There is a lot of money to be made counter trend trading in my view and the key is knowing when to take the opposite position of a trend which is a skill in itself. It can and is done but is not as obvious when to enter as some would have you believe.

I agree with you....some are very specialise at it.....their RR can also be huge despite their low probably of winners.

They are also very quick on their feet.....
 

Trader333

Moderator
8,659 984
Well I am not going to give details but as you say the R:R is very good and the percentage profitable is much higher than you would think. It does not work on forex or stocks but works well on specific futures markets.
 
 
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

But it's thanks to our sponsors that access to Trade2Win remains free for all. By viewing our ads you help us pay our bills, so please support the site and disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock