Is 25pt bias typical at D4F ??!

mmillar

Guest
330 5
rjay,

The difference you are seeing maybe partly because D4F show real time prices whereas Finspreads show delayed prices.


jpone,

I agree that you shouldn't waste time looking for these opportunities because they are few and far between. Whenever I have seen significant arbitrage opportunities they have been computer errors, where a price has got 'stuck', or late in the evening (around 11.00pm) when people are obviously tired and making mistakes.
 

Skimbleshanks

1
2,325 16
mmillar said:
The difference you are seeing maybe partly because D4F show real time prices whereas Finspreads show delayed prices.

I think the point you made needs to be clarified as the way it stands it could be misunderstood. Finspreads update their prices every 30 seconds, so for slower moving instruments that is as good as real time. However, whatever the market, when you go to trade you are offered the real time price and are not requoted.
 

spreadbet

Member
88 0
I have experienced he same problem with D4F, so much so I moved to IG. IG can get out of line with the cash index also, however I have never seen them as far out as D4F.

With respect to the cost of trading the Dow30 Daily D4F charge 4pts on the open, 4 on the close and 4 for the controlled risk bet a total of 12pts. IG charge 11pts on the opening of the trade and that also includes your controlled stop.

The thing to whatch with both companies is where you place your stop. D4F can be so far out of line that you test your stop very quickly. If they requote you before you can trade then your stop may be in serious jepordy.

IG take the level where you press the buy/sell and add 11pts your stop is the take from the higher point.

ie market = 9000 when you press buy, therefore your stop will be calculated from 9011 and not 9000.

With IG there are no requote's where you buy sell is the price you get, your trade is filled immediately.


Hope this helps and good luck

Please note I have no connection with any S/B companies other than a client of IG



Cheers

Spreadbet
 

bonsai

Veteren member
4,106 11
rjay
have you considered that you may be trying to trade too
long after the market has started its move ?
at the tops and bottoms you can always detect the change
in quotes from being 'above market' to being 'below market'
If you can time that right, you will start your trade with a few extra point in the bag and the same when you close. That in itself
will more than pay for the 'spread'
If you take too long to decide, you will lose on both ends.
 

rjay

Active member
122 0
bonsai said:
rjay
have you considered that you may be trying to trade too
long after the market has started its move ?

Yes but trying to predict tops & bottoms is a mug's game .... go with the flow, is my strategy - and the price needs to have been trending for a few bars before it becomes "the flow" :)
 

mmillar

Guest
330 5
spreadbet said:
With respect to the cost of trading the Dow30 Daily D4F charge 4pts on the open, 4 on the close and 4 for the controlled risk bet a total of 12pts. IG charge 11pts on the opening of the trade and that also includes your controlled stop.

errr?

D4F's US30 rolling cash has a spread of 5 points. IGIndex's Daily Wall St has a spread of 8 points. D4F's 'rolling cash' is a superior product to IG Index's 'Daily' product. It is beyond me why anyone would take out a CRB on a daily product.
 

jpwone

Well-known member
254 3
You don't need to predict a top or a bottom but if using spread bets you do need to anticipate a turn whilst the SB pricing is still favourable to your planned position to maximise returns. So, if I see resistance at 9000 and I know that previous tests of this level have failed it would be better to get my trade in before it reached 9000 and turns and the SB company moves the price against me. The advantage of this is that if I am wrong and the index breaks through the 9000 level I will have gone short when the bias was in my favour and whilst the bias will not be in my favour it is unlikely that it will have worsened when I take the stoploss.

By entering my short position when the actual is at 8995 and the SB company is quoting 8995 to sell I will be in a better position than if I wait for the fail at 9000 and try to enter at 8995 when the SB price is now biased downwards. If I am wrong and it breaks 9000 and my stop is 9005 on the actual it is probable that as it is going up the SB price will still be biased up and I will be able to exit with 9012 or similar as their buy price. My loss for the failed trade will be 17 points.

If I wait for it to hit 9000 and then turn and enter the trade when the actual is at 8995 I will probably get 8988 (at best) as the sell price and I will have given away a potential 7 points of gain. If this trade should fail and it reverses against me (goes up in this example) then my stoploss would be biased against me (biased up). I now have the worst of both worlds I am selling when it is biased down and buying (to stoploss) when it is biased up. A planned entry which anticipates a likely reversal would be more profitable for a win and less costly for a loss.

I use this method regularily and it makes a significant difference to returns. Four Dow trades yesterday netted over 200 points and three MUV2 trades added another 600 points. Losing trades (there were a few) lost less than 100 points. I don't do that every day but the MUV2 trades would have netted about 200 points if i had waited for confirmation of the move. Health warning, do not trade MUV2 if you are a beginner or do not have your money management rules firmly embedded - it is a killer and typically has a 50 point spread.

Not exactly trying to pick tops and bottoms but trying to use the SB bias to favour my trades.
 

spreadbet

Member
88 0
mmillar said:
D4F's US30 rolling cash has a spread of 5 points. IGIndex's Daily Wall St has a spread of 8 points. D4F's 'rolling cash' is a superior product to IG Index's 'Daily' product. It is beyond me why anyone would take out a CRB on a daily product.

It's simply my system and it works fine for me, with respect to superior products. What value is a 'superior product if I cannot trade at the time and price I wish to because of re-quotes etc.


Cheers spreadbet

:D
 

Miki

Member
98 1
Why would anybody in their right mind use spread-betting market makers is beyond me.

Learning how to play markets as well as learning SB’s devious strategies and their dubious biasing techniques based on their dodgy quotes is just insane.

The odds are so heavily stacked up against you – it’s a losing game.

If there any profitable SB traders (some here claim to be) can you imagine how profitable they would be in the real world, using “proper” brokers and real quotes?
 

bonsai

Veteren member
4,106 11
Miki
I suspect you may be a closet scalper ?
if so then sb's not for you.
but for swing traders, yes.
people rabbit on about 'devious and dubious'
suspect its caused by trying to close losing trades ?
 

Skimbleshanks

1
2,325 16
I find that spread betting can be very profitable indeed - for the right strategy. I have been dabbling with my SB account recently and am using it to trade the long trends - so I place a small bet on the futures three months ahead, and walk away. Easy peasy.

My main trading is intraday with IB, but there's no way I would hold positions overnight, whereas with the SB account I really don't care because I'm not worried about a 200 point move against me on the Dow.

It's all horses for courses; IMO IB is better for shorter strategies, and SB is better for longer strategies.
 

Helenqu

Established member
841 3
I agree with Skim. There is nothing wrong with using SB companies as part of an overall trading strategy. Just use them for the right time frame and not as I tried to do in the beginning, for scalping :)
 

Miki

Member
98 1
Bonsai

You are right – I am a fast-fingered scalper trader (as well as the oldest swinger in town).
:)
 

rglenn

Well-known member
379 4
I agree with Skim and Helen

It is very difficult to day trade with the SB companies- I have found out to my cost.

If a trade moves against you -you can usually recover it over the long term. If it moves against you whilst day trading it is very unlikely that you will recover all your losses-especially during the same day.
 
 
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