Inside bid-Naz / and Trader333 or anyone--pls help

[billp]

Inside bid-please help

Hi,

Please help. Thanks.

Previously either Naz or Trader333 posted a picture of an ECN where there was a column showing the number of inside bids/ask for each ECN/MM

For example, if GSCO has a number of 400, that means that GSCO was in the inside bid 400 times in that day. Previously it was mentioned that E-signal has it.

However. now E-signal does not have it. Anybody know which software/datafeed etc has it.?Thanks.

 

[rog1111]

I think that CyberTrader still offer the hammer indicator on their platform ? It's years since I traded with them

rog1111

Hi,

Please help. Thanks.

Previously either Naz or Trader333 posted a picture of an ECN where there was a column showing the number of inside bids/ask for each ECN/MM

For example, if GSCO has a number of 400, that means that GSCO was in the inside bid 400 times in that day. Previously it was mentioned that E-signal has it.

However. now E-signal does not have it. Anybody know which software/datafeed etc has it.?Thanks.

 

[billp]

Thanks for your reply. Nope that was not what I was looking for. Maybe I should rename the thread title to include Naz and Trader333's name as they mentioned this previously (although a long time ago).

 

[roguetrader]

Hi billp, not sure exactly what context Naz or Trader333 were refering to, but you may be mistaken in your understanding GSCO inside bid with 400 beside it would ordinarily mean to me that they were bidding for 400 x 100 shares(which incidently would be a monster bid to be showing so I am prolly mis-understanding you). To get level 2 in eSignal you have to be subscribed to level 2 feed which would not be automatic.
I'm sure one of the guys will clarify the figure they were referring to though

 

[rog1111]

OK sorry can't be of more help. It would be quite a simple task to custom build such a thing via an API / program, depending on which broker you are with..

rog1111

 

[billp]

Thanks for all your replies.

I've attached a word document (where I copied what was previously mentioned by Naz and Trader333 together with a picture of how the ECN should look like). Hopefully this will give a clearer picture as to what I am looking for.

Really appreciate any help that you can offer.

Rog1111,
You mentioned that I can build this via an API/program, can you elaborate more. My IT skills are bad but I'm willing to learn from whichever source/website to build it. Can you give me some pointers or where I should be looking at to do so.

Thanks

 

[Trader333]

The original post was made by Naz and comes I think from using Direct Access Elite which is a direct access level II platform where this option is made available. The actual platfrom used has now changed and I am not sure if this option is still available.

Esignal also allowed this but to get it you had to subscribe to one of their more expensive packages and then turn on those options and this was aroud 3 years ago. I havent used Esignal since 2003 and so I am not able to say whether this is now an available option or not.


Paul

 

[TheBramble]

BillP - I can guess where you're going with this, but there are a couple of other bits of info you might want to consider using.

You might not only want to know how many times an MM has been at the inside (which of itself and by itself isn't particularly useful).

You might also want to know how many times they were at the inside AND transacted at the inside. AND at what size at the inside. AND what sizes they had at other levels on both Bid and Ask at that same time.

Bear in mind you only get to see, for the most part, what the MM wants you to see on LII.

 

[rog1111]

billp

with respect, if your IT skills are "bad" then this will be a long and difficult route for you to take. Rather carry on with your search to find the platform referred to, or easier to PM Naz directly

rog1111

Thanks for all your replies.

I've attached a word document (where I copied what was previously mentioned by Naz and Trader333 together with a picture of how the ECN should look like). Hopefully this will give a clearer picture as to what I am looking for.

Really appreciate any help that you can offer.

Rog1111,
You mentioned that I can build this via an API/program, can you elaborate more. My IT skills are bad but I'm willing to learn from whichever source/website to build it. Can you give me some pointers or where I should be looking at to do so.

Thanks

 

[Mr. Charts]

billp,
I trade using level 2 and other things every day for a living.
The number of times an ECN has been on the inside bid or ask is of virtually zero value.
As for market makers, its importance is barely above zero these days. It certainly used to be of much more value, but MMs often trade through other means and not directly in their own names.
Also several different MMs tend to be active at different times.
Sometimes it is of minor use with thinner, less liquid stocks.
In other words, you are wasting your time as the premise for your investigation no longer applies.
I've posted this in the hope that you will take notice of someone who trades for a living professionally and not go up a blind alley.
Richard

 

[billp]

Thanks for all your replies. Appreciate for some further advise (sorry for the long post as I felt I had to explain my reasoning for the above query)

Trader333,
Thanks.. Both Direct Access Elite and E-signal no longer offer this features. I've been scouring other websites as well and can't find the feature anywhere else so far. Sigh.

TheBramble and Mr Charts,
Thanks for the advise. Yeah, I know that there can be different MMs that are controlling a particular stock at different times of day etc. What I was planning to do was along the below line. Appreciate your advise. Thanks.

First, I have to admit the plan below may be 'lofty'/'crazy' etc. My purpose is just to 'quantify' or 'made easier' a portion of what the experts can read from Level II. I've been staring at the Level II for ages and have been reading a lot from whichever websites/forums etc but still find it hard to make use of Level II , depth of market and tape (although theory wise, I know a reasonable amount). Thus, this was how the below plan came into effect.

Plan:
1) See if that particular column called 'best' which shows the number of times MM/ECN has been at the inside bid/ask during the day. If available, I will then proceed to the below steps

2a) Observe for patterns such as :
Is there a particular time/price level (certain support/resistance level), where one of the ECNs/MMs are actively supporting/pushing down the price. This will be made easier as I've 'sort of identified the axe' for that particular day/time.

Also if from 1) above, the number of times each major MM/ECN has been at the inside bid/ask are roughly equal, then I may pay more attention to other things instead of trying to figure out 'something' when there is nothing to be seen on Level II and tape.

3) I also plan (if possible), to draw charts where I can actually plot the number of times each major MM/ECN is at the inside bid/ask versus price/time. The chart will be for days and also intraday. This will allow me to see visually whether the MM/ECN is faking the 'bids/ask' and when they are really supporting the price as I can see how price reacts with the 'inside bid/ask'. This will allow for easier tracking of MM/ECN at particular times/price (especially when I want to enter into a position)

In a nutshell, the above is what I was thinking of. Please note that I've not incorporated the plan where: 'bids/asks are actively being lifted' or 'depth of market'(which some experts have found it useful). From what I understand, these are also some strategies that are used and which I'm trying to identify (know the theory only) from watching. Difficult so far.

Any advise from anyone is appreciated. I really want to know whether is it worth learning to read Level II, depth of market and tape as so far I've not really succeeded in this (I heard from an expert that it can take months to yikes!! years and some never succeed).

Rog1111,
Thanks for all your replies. I may not pursue this path of 'programming the information' based on your feedback. Thanks for that info. I will have to see whether the benefits outweigh the time that will be needed to do the above.

TIA

 

[roguetrader]

This will allow me to see visually whether the MM/ECN is faking the 'bids/ask' and when they are really supporting the price

Hi billp may I suggest you read up a little on what exactly an ECN is, and it's function, as your statements suggest you may be unsure

 

[billp]

Thanks for your reply Roguetrader. If you are meaning that 'ECN is basically a platform where anybody be it a Market Maker or any trader' can place their bids/asks or trade with---yes I know that. I know that I will have to take into account that the bids/asks shown in a particular ECN will be a mixture of more than 1 market maker and many traders.


Is that what you were hinting at? Thanks