Level 2 and MM's

[TheBramble]

Only a qualitative one from a trader working out in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada using a satellite link - VERY SLOW compared with DSL.

I would offer to get some specific quantitative data for you, but I suspect it's got an awful lot to do with: ISP, equipment, location etc.

Why satellite anyway?

 

[ianh]

LevII
Forget Satelite. I tried it against an ISDN connection, & the data is delayed by about 1.5 secs. This is obviously because it goes up to the satelite, & then back down again.
The system I tried was not very reliable either, and although I signed up for a three month trial, when I tried to cancel it, they wanted three months notice, & took a second payment from my CC, which I had to get back via the CC company.
The company was Netsystem in Italy

My local exchange hit the Broadband trigger level last week, so hopefully not too long to wait now.

 

[LevII]

Why satellite anyway?

Simply considering moving to a part of the world where phones are in short supply never mind broadband (which I do not yet have even here)!

For a style of trading (pairs) that is less frantic than what I have been used to it may be good enough

 

[BBB]

Lvell - no sorry I dont. I know that a few banks use satellite as backup - but thats obviously silly money, and again I would imagine depends on the provider, how much data your pushing through etc.

The thing is with most of us, we probably SUBSCRIBE to a list of stocks we want to monitor. For example we may have 100-200 on our radar. The data/price ticks for each of those is then sent to us as and when.

With 'industry strength' quote software that you'll find in a bank/prop house etc (such as Bloomberg, Royal Blue, Thompson etc) you are on a PUBLISH model. This means that EVERY trade and price fluctuation for EVERY stock on the exchange is broadcast to them. One reason why their requirements are obviously different to ours.

...another useless bit of info from yours truly!

 

[TheBramble]

Simply considering moving to a part of the world where phones are in short supply never mind broadband (which I do not yet have even here)!

Then why bother trading? Sounds like you wont have anything to spend your profits on anyway...

 

[LevII]

Just because it's not € land (yet) doesn't mean there's nothing to absorb dosh.

In any event the yacht takes some maintenance.

LII

 

[BBB]

Im sure there are people in every corner of the world who are willing to relieve us of our cash!

 

[Rognvald]

VPN's are generally a secure link over the internet ensuring privacy. They are an encrypted tunnel within a tunnel although they go through the "usual channels" - so far as I am aware there is no speed adventage in the sort of VPN tha can be set up within say XP pro.

T1 is an American bandwidth standard of about 1.5Mb/sec (both ways) and on the basis of a direct leased line.
The nearest UK standard is E1 which is 2Mb/sec. - such a line will cost you £4/500 pcm.
It is interesting to note that BT is just about to introduce - in certain cities only - a symmetrical dsl type line that will give the same bandwidth up as down. It will come in .512Mb, 1Mb and 2 Mb flavurs and priced accordingly.This will not give the LATENCY advantage of an E1/T1 line as it still uses internet for transport. It will HOWEVER help the SPEED of transfer of large data files

There is much confusion about SPEED on the internet which is often confused with BANDWIDTH. The Trader has need of LOW LATENCY more than high bandwidth.

Whilst this is getting more and more off thread it is something that needs to be understood

I use a rt feed for indices along with a "rt" IB account on an adsl link and the input into my machine is just a fraction of the bandwidth capacity of the link. The instruction to trade is an insignificantly small signal and goes over the internet jyust as fast on aq dial up connection as on broadband. What is much more significant is the DELAY intoduced by the switching about that takes place between the information source (exchange) and my machine over the internet and then, after my reaction to the information provided, between my machine, the broker and the exchange. It is only if this WHOLE process can be speeded up significantly that investment in leased lines will pay off. In my circs the number and size of trades does not justify the expense involved in speeding up only part of ther process.

satellite internet links just add more delay due to switching and physical distance to geostationary satellites.

Anything more than about 700 msec delay will for example render D4 free's MM5 almost unusable in even a moderately fast market. Also forget satellite if you want to intraday trade futures.

 

[LevII]

Thanks Rog. Presumably reasonably leisurely trading on, say, IB could be accommodated by sat. Just have to forget the frenetic LII action with the DA account.

LII

 

[BBB]

Rognvald - by VPN I meant guaranteed bandwidth. Ooops!It's been a few years since I worked in IT (trading became far more lucrative - hehehehe). You're right - VPN is encryption and of little benefit to us.

Most 'domestic' trading apps require 6-18k of bandwidth if thats of interest.
BAndwidth (correct me if I'm wrong) if how wide the pipe is. If you have a tiny pipe and trying to squeeze a lot down that pipe (everyone elses web traffic where you live), then there will be a lot of latency i.e. lag, slowness.

If it's of interest, LIFFE Connect (and I assume NASDAQ but not sure) broadcast trades/prices to POP's all around the world with slight delays, depending how far away the POP is. Within the info sent to the pops is a time that the POP should broadcast the info. eg the London POP will have a much longer delay than the Sydney POP. This ensures that all the POPs are broadcasting the same information at exactly the same time all around the world, so traders in Sydney are not at a disadvantage to those in London. However, as soon as that data starts travelling down your domestic ISP with all the other stuff, this benefit is obviously eradicated.

POP - Point of Presence - internet version of a telephone exchange.