IG Index Thread

[Paulds11]

I think the important thing is to watch for a while and see what you are getting involved with. Work out a plan and then test it for a while.

Then risk your money in increasing amounts as you win.

I don't know exactly what you have done but it sounds like you have not done that.

No thats not true at all, my approach was measured and infact diligent in comparison, and Im surprised at your comment...

Correct money management tends to dictate that the stake in a trade should remain constant irrespective of your wins and losses and should only change with a change in your strategy (your overall approach) not a change in the tactics ( your individual trades). Your suggested approach is how people wipe out their account quickly. However add to this that spreadbetting is NOT trading.. it is gambling because the company can and does "dope the horse" at will.

Also no amount of watching will allow you to realise how easily stopped out of trades you may be, or how you can be locked out of amending your stop loss, or how bad the graphs are at imparting volatility of a given market, let alone the erroneous incongruence with the actual market or how you can be denied access to the market at the open by a few minutes to restrict your profits, or how often the message "this market is not dealable" comes up when you want to place a trade on a surefire move...want me to continue?...

Go ahead gamble with IG as long as you know in the long term the odds are against you, just be aware you are at the Casino surrounded by one arm bandits (binaries and bracket bets) and roulette wheels pretending to be real Market indexes like FTSE or Dow Jones but are infact tampered with a. to entice your bet and b. to reduce your chance of winning once you place your bet. and at £25 a point betting daily (as if day trading perhaps) I assure you with those spreads you arnt making money regularly faster than you are loosing it.

 

[platypus_8888]

No thats not true at all, my approach was measured and infact diligent in comparison, and Im surprised at your comment...

Correct money management tends to dictate that the stake in a trade should remain constant irrespective of your wins and losses and should only change with a change in your strategy (your overall approach) not a change in the tactics ( your individual trades). Your suggested approach is how people wipe out their account quickly. However add to this that spreadbetting is NOT trading.. it is gambling because the company can and does "dope the horse" at will.

Errhh, you seem to suggest that although I have doubled my account size through my trading I should still trade in a size related to my starting point.

I do not agree, to put it mildly!

Trading is gambling. The difference is between the amateurs and the professionals. Professional traders and gamblers put in the work and develop their edge. Amateurs don't.

 

[Paulds11]

No thats not what I am suggesting at all, merely that for those quite new to the whole issue, that they should be careful not to increase their bet size unless accompanied by a deliberate change in overall approach.

Also trading is not gambling, if it was it would be subject to gaming rules and there would be no need to pay tax on the money and the characteristics of the market would not allow for long term planning of profitability ie the odds would be against you for the nenefit of the marketmaker. There is a distinction because the financial market itself has characteristics that enable long term profitability and it doesn't necessarily conspire to beat you.

Of course over a pint I agree I am being very particular about my use of the term Gambling, ordinarily I wouldn't disagree with you for the points you raise but for the purposes of the newbie I have to be specific. Please excuse me for that

 

[platypus_8888]

No, that is fine and it sounds like we are pretty much in accord.

But people do make money out of IG and if it were not possible I, and others, would simply not use them.

It is certainly not easy but it can be done.

I have never encountered a significant problem with their sites. Sometime the price is not to my liking but in that case I simply do not trade. On exit I have no choice but the way in which I trade tends to take care of that.

I realise they can "adjust" pricing in terms of a "volatility" screw but they have little choice. I am talking about options and binaries here.

It sounds like your trading style is such that it brings you into conflict with IG - is that a fair way of putting it?

I would add that I know of traders who place trades in four figure sums per point through IG and have done for years. You don't keep that kind of business unless you provide a pretty good service.

 

[Paulds11]

you wrote: It sounds like your trading style is such that it brings you into conflict with IG - is that a fair way of putting it?

No that unfortunately is not a fair way of putting it. It isn't about my trading style, it is about a lack of transparency offered by the firm. It took me 1 month before I found the answers to the underlying problems I had witnessed and complained about time and time again.. all of that could have been avoided by answering my questions and I could have avoided loss easily as a result had I known.

How can this company possibly defend itself against the accusation when the proof for requests to that information are freely available?. Why does a company offering stock market information and NEWS!! then feel the need to skew that market against the customer and not profer that information upon request?

How can it be right that a market is offered only for traders to be denied access to that market on a whim in the name of "proetection for our profits"? then surely the offering is not fit for purpose as they sell it to their customers as a way to trade the markets... but we are not trading the markets because the data isnt REAL!!! and I didnt see that anwhere in the literature or in thier replies to my questions direct to the service desk

. All I will be fighting for is my stake back as that money was lost not through bad trades as such but because of bad information or a system fault or inefficient procedure enactments not of my doing, despite numerous requests for clarification. I was puzzled why the data was so different from the real markets and the reply?... "the graphs are indicative only" well I know that that wont stand up in court when set against the backdrop of all these other issues.. and Im sure they think Im just another loosing punter

So you can see this isnt about my trading style, its about a companies failure to provide timely information (probably deliberately thus ensuring loss) and to me that is completely unacceptable.. Theyve had chance to put it right and they havnt, Ive already been fobbed off with an 8 week response cycle when the FSA told me they should reply in a max of 4. It took 7 or so weeks before I had a call from an "account manager" to clarify for me all the points raised prior... ie they happened to call after my losses.

so disingenuous...

 

[Paulds11]

IG sites

Also Let me tell you about thier site

IG Index: never worked on my system and no one could solve that problem technically despite much attempt to. Some problem with JAVA was preventing the graphs from displaying properly. I decided to get inventove and so I downloaded a "shell" browser and opened ie within it and hey presto.. I managed to get a wrorkaround myself, but it wasnt Ideal

IG MARKETS pro.. this is the CFD platform , the DMA L2 product and I decided I would move here after my problems with spreadbetting and this time I simply could not get the application to open up on my system despite many hrs spent with the technical team who had complete remote control over my system in an attempt to solve the problem... It was never solved so I couldn't even use that platform.

A week or so later I decided to close both accounts in disgust

 

[fxwinner22]

so it's still everybody elses fault eh?

lol

been there done that got the tee shirt

 

[fxwinner22]

look paul, sometimes IG stinks, sometimes cap spreads stink - sometimes they all stink - it's the price of doing business. - if you can trade then over time it does not matter as you will make more from them than they do from you. - if you approach your broker / spreadbet whatever with an adversarial attitude onething is for sure you will never win. - a win / win approach is the only way you survive in this game - you need to make money, but so do they, bear that in mind.

Clearly you cannot trade and that's nothing to be ashamed of - most cannot, in fact 99 people out of 100 cannot so you are in good company. just stop blaming everyone else except for you.

you think you will get a better deal at a proper fx broker - then go for it - 99% of forex brokers are also market makers making their own price and shading etc so again you arent in the real market - the only way you will escape this is to go direct to market and you don't have enough money to do that and then you certainly would not be happy. - we all know this happens paul so your rants arent educating anyone - we accept it as a cost of doing business - and it's cheaper than paying 40% capital gains tax!

sometimes (like today) the interbank market can have a 50 pip spread and if you are in the real market there is no-one you can blame except yourself and every other trader in the 'real market'

get over it and find a way - if not just keep on moaning and eventually your place will be taken by another moaner who will also lose his shirt.

 

[Pippppin]

IG sites

Also Let me tell you about thier site

IG Index: never worked on my system and no one could solve that problem technically despite much attempt to. Some problem with JAVA was preventing the graphs from displaying properly. I decided to get inventove and so I downloaded a "shell" browser and opened ie within it and hey presto.. I managed to get a wrorkaround myself, but it wasnt Ideal

IG MARKETS pro.. this is the CFD platform , the DMA L2 product and I decided I would move here after my problems with spreadbetting and this time I simply could not get the application to open up on my system despite many hrs spent with the technical team who had complete remote control over my system in an attempt to solve the problem... It was never solved so I couldn't even use that platform.

A week or so later I decided to close both accounts in disgust

If you really do end up in court versus IG the above statement completely undermines your case, even if you do have some valid grievances. IG will simply say all problems were as a result of problems with your computer accessing their platform...

You need to think a little bit smarter than your posts imply

 

[Paulds11]

so it's still everybody elses fault eh?

lol

been there done that got the tee shirt

Cmon.. your bigger than that...
What a silly comment, as if I haven't contemplated such an issue. You somehow think this is about the money? a poxy £1200 ?... do you work for IG or something?.. Stick to the issue without condesention or failed wit

its about principle and my claims are based on fact not hearsay..
Lets see what else you respond with..

 

[Paulds11]

IN REPLY TO A MORE PREVIOUS POST THAN THE SILLY PETULANT COMMENT ABOVE (YES OBVIOUSLY SOMEONE IS GETTING ANNOYED AT MY ANTI IG POSTS...HMMM WONDER WHO THEY COULD BE...???? !!!!!)

No I didnt say anyone "stinks", what I said was it is disingenuous for IG INDEX to offer thier platform to many with all its inherent problems and lack of transparency in the way it functions despite my request for that information many times over and your continual efforts to discredit my postings against IG for the same. It only serves to keep me responding..

As a trader it is completely disgraceful to be trading on markets to then find you wernt at all, in fact you find you were trading in fake IG markets despite the requests for clarification not being answered several times over, despite the appalling graphs that dont tally with the real markets, despite the lock out from my account when seeking to change the stop loss BEFORE the tick reached it. I mean why bother to send us information about the markets like News when ultimately the end result may differ because IG (you) choose to skew the market as if dopping the horse.. on that principle people have been known to go to prison so dont come here blasting off at me on these boards communicating my tale of woe about you (IG) when that is precisely what these boards are for.

How condescending to talk about win-win situations when clearly IG have had opportunity to put right and have not.


You have lost sight of the main issue, so let me remind you. I dont care for any information about any other broker or FAKE spreadbetting operation.. what I care about is upfront honesty and I was failed by IG and this has nothing to do with being a bad loser.. we all loose money at times its part of the landscape but do you want to loose it unfairly? Information is everything .. Do you think its right to withold requested information? Do you think it was right to restrict access to the market opening when the best profits can be made?? really?..

It is wrong to mislead people like that by proxy and as such it is wrong to assume that somehow I am now a bad loser against a company that systematically "cutts corners" with so many honest new traders that that method becomes in itself a means to an end on the unsuspecting trader you thus turn into a gambler. similarly hoodwinked into placing trades that really turn out to be nothing more than gambles on fictitious markets as if being scammed by proxy. That information should come first in any literature or dealing handbook, thats all...

You should be ashamed it took so long for someone to own up. Its the principle not the money.. its the way IG come to attack and discredit via these boards without offer of apology or gesture to put it right.. its the way they act as if we are somehow at fault for falling for thier lure to place some funds with them under the disguise that we are trading in the real market..

Work with you? to do what? quiten down? No way.. not untill Im heard or they put it right.
Simple.. no doubt Ill get a response now from pipppin or the other usual IG suspects on these boards seeking to discredit.

 

[fxwinner22]

you are never in the 'real' market - 99% of brokers and all spreadbetters are market makers - they make their own market or as you call it a 'fake market'. not knowing this shows clearly your lack of understanding and experience.

whoopee do - youve doubled your money - give the man a carrot

 

[Paulds11]

If you really do end up in court versus IG the above statement completely undermines your case, even if you do have some valid grievances. IG will simply say all problems were as a result of problems with your computer accessing their platform...

You need to think a little bit smarter than your posts imply

Oh really?... so you think so?
So you think the emails from IG admitting the user intervention by the broker in Australia will go against me?

Shouldn't you be working..ooh Im sorry you work for IG dont you.. of course you do..

Let me remind everybody of some of the finer points of my "issues" here from a previously removed posting because I thought things were being resolved....
----------------------------------------


Summary
This isnt about the losses, this is about getting the information I specifically asked for over and over and didnt get it untill about 7 weeks.. Thats really what this is about.

Dont spreadbet with IG, they take your money through problems you dont expect
Expect to be locked out from trading some market openings as they dont want you to profit heavily in any way.
Not only are the graphs a complete joke but the CASH markets are not the same as proper futures cash settlement marets in indexes.. those markets offered by IG are Fake with volatility increased to entice you to trade..THAT IS WHY THE GRAPHS END UP BEARING NO RELATION TO THE REAL MARKET..WHAT A JOKE..
Dont even think about spreadbetting if you can go direct with a proper broker who will not offer you a fake market as these fake markets can be changed at will to change your result. Im astonished they can do that...
If you can make money spreadbetting youll make more in the real market so why bother in the first place if your day trading?
Dont day trade with any spreadbetting company.. you will loose
tHE GRAPHS DO NOT BEAR ANY RESEMBLANCE TO THE VOLATILITY ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED IN REAL TICK CHARTS AS SUCH YOU MAY SET YOUR STOP LOSS TO CLOSE TO THE VOLATILITY AND BE SUDDENLY STOPPED OUT OF THE POSITION DESPITE NONE OF THAT ACTIVITY BEING DISPLAYED ON THE GRAPH..JOKERS...
REALISE YOU ARE BEING FLEECED BY A BOOKIE AND NOT INTRODUCED TO A MARKET BY A REAL BROKER.. AND THATS WHY YOU DONT PAY TAX ON YOUR EARNINGS BECAUSE INFACT... YOU ARE GAMBLING NOT TRADING AND THIER IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. PENSION FUNDS DO NOT GAMBLE THEY INVEST THROUGH TRADING.. REMEMBER THAT

I resent asking for the information upfront and not getting it untill some time after. I assumed ALL markets offered werea direct reflection of the markets in question, not a mixture of real and fake ones.

Lesson learned

 

[Paulds11]

Please do not let these attacks become personal
Keep them above board..stick to the issues at least, without patronizing and without lame attempts to discredit by highlighting typing errors.. many of us are new to trading.

 

[Paulds11]

you are never in the 'real' market - 99% of brokers and all spreadbetters are market makers - they make their own market or as you call it a 'fake market'. not knowing this shows clearly your lack of understanding and experience.

whoopee do - youve doubled your money - give the man a carrot

-------------
Precisely my point,
Who cares? who knows about that?
who cares how experienced you are?
Who cares why you seem to want to attack my trading when what we are really here for is broker reveiw and assistance with markets.
As a newcomer I feel compelled to let people know my experience and they should because I dont believe I was given all the facts pertaining to my questions early enough or that any concession was made by IG regarding the major issues of contention.

I care about what my broker does for me, and what exactly he is offering... after all Im new I have to start somewhere and I trust my ability to learn

I believe IG have issues. One of which is the provision of relevant information to me, and as a customer I have a right to voice those concerns,

I dont wish to engage in how long you may have traded or how many accounts you have or engage in comments that seek to discredit my particular angst with you. We all have to start somewhere and I shouldnt be attacked for that or maligned because I take issue with thier system and approach as a newbie

Thats all

Let people decide for themselves.. most people that come here are new to this.. or shall we paint a rosy picture come what may?

Next you will say it was my fault that I asked for clarification and didnt get it., or that I asked why there were differences with some graphs and prices and the figures I got from other credible sources... or that its my fault that I was denied access to markets strangely at open for 20 minutes after the major movement of the day had already taken place....hmmm Next youll be saying its because Ive lost money and patronize with statements like we all lose..

Sure whatever you say.. I have no knowledge of how it works and because Im learning I should somehow know all these things instantly..

Cmon.. please

 

[fxwinner22]

lol, i'm linked to IG am I - that must be why they slipped me a few pips yesterday then. Do i bleat and moan about it - yes I do - to them and often we reach an agreement but to say i work for them is ridiculous - some people on here know who I am and might set you straight on that one.

I'm not linked to anyone Mr 8 weeks trader - I'm a trader of 5 years - 1 of them with IG. I also have real interbank accounts and i also have other spreadbetting accounts. - there is no difference in pricing from one to another that lasts very long - there couldnt be - if there was there would be a serious arbitrage opportunity that people would laugh all the way to the bank with.

I play the forex market every day and i'm playing with serious money - i'm placing almost $20 Million into the market daily that's $2000 per pip, i'm not over leveraged either like you are. - hey, and guess what I MAKE MONEY FROM IG INDEX REGULARLY - I MAKE MONEY FROM CAPITAL SPREADS. I MAKE MONEY FROM EVERYONE I TRADE WITH - I'M A TRADER NOT A BLEATER!

if you manage to last 2 years let alone the five you might get somewhere - but WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE - IT'S YOU - NOT THE BROKER OR THE SPREADBETTER

sure, brokers and spreadbetters take the pi$$ sometimes and bite off some more for themselves - but they can't do it all the time or they wouldnt have customers - some days are broker days and some days are traders days - thats how it goes.

I don't play binaries as there is no point - its like red and black on roulette - you think it's 50/50 but it isnt because of the zero. Binaries are for people who fancy a flutter, not for serious traders exploiting an edge.

Look Paul, seriously, did you really expect to make money after 8 weeks trading? - come on lad, get your brain into gear will you - if you could make money like that then everyone would be millionaires.

it took me a good 2 -3 years to learn this game and i lost around £10,000 - £15,000 before i did - most of that at £1 a pip!

It aint easy Paul and i gotta tell you - you've never dealt with a "real broker" as you put it - they are all the same, price shading happens and it's a fact of life. Get over it. This is a hard game to make money in - that's why when we get it right we get the big bucks!

There is big money to be made in trading - In january my bottom line profit from my trading was just over $280,000, some from spreadbetting and some from brokers. In december I lost $150,000. December was a brokers month and January was mine - thats the game. I win more months than they do, 10 out of 12 to be precise.

don't keep making yourself look foolish on here Paul - you don't know what you don't know. Many others on here do.

 

[Crap Buddist]

" lost £650 whack when suddenly I was debited an eye watering, ten minute palm sweating, slack jawed amazing £600 mid trade because the Nikkei had apparently spiked my stop loss from a huge swooping distance across the pacific Ocean and back and not seen it on the graphical tool at all.. nonsense it should have been plotted "...ahem.. the graphs are only indicative Sir.."... Loophole after loophole is how you lose. OK another one plugged"
Ok, wel,l All? spreadbet companies state in their terms & conditions, that their prices may not reflect the underlying Yes? They also state that their prices may change because of the spreadbet companies own customers orders . This is in their terms and conditions.


That says to me that be prepared or accept that their prices may have at times no accurate representation of the actual underlying markets. We know this before any money is risked right? Customers are happy to assume this risk of price integrity I assume. If customers are not happy then they have a choice to go elsewhere.

Now, if IG say that they have live prices up to the second when you log in (I'm not sure if they do ) then as a customer it would seem fair that their live prices should be visible at all times to the client. This is potentially grey, I mean o.k we know their price may not reflect the underlying etc, but does their unreflected live price reflected to their customers at all times, or is there a disclaimer that says "Even our unreflective price may not be reflected to the customer".

That i see as grey and a customer may have a point to argue , yes I accept your prices may not represent the actual markets but if you do not show me your own prices to act on ,then I claim a refund because you have failed to supply your own dealable (I assume) price quotes to me.

Now whether IG are again covered by this in a further disclaimer I dont know.

I think you need to establish if their OWN live prices quotes & tic charts should be accurate and if not , due to a glith etc, what can a customer expect for compensation, usually you may be put back in the trade I expect, or refunded .

In short are they covered with the unreflective being unreflective.

When trading with their charts if you need to supply visual "Look stopped here but your own price wasnt reflected to me etc" just press your print screen button and paste it into paint , at least you will have a hard copy of the event.

summary.

Unreflective Price. Tough, accept that or go elsewhere.

Unreflective of the Unreflective , Try & get a refund.

If they say they cant guarentee their own price then looks like a double tough mate.

All the best.

Oh and dont think this has been a waste of your time, this is just a lesson you are paying for. Tuition costs typically have a couple of extra zero's on too.

 

[Paulds11]

Crap Buddist

If I may first state that was an excellent reply to my tale-of-woe... the sort of response I initially expected before patronization and unwarranted/suprising rear guard actions from "cloaking daggers" arose to to discredit my very first post which did nothing but goad me into making sure my point was firmly established here.

I see you understand how this boils down and yes it does outwardly seem that clauses and disclaimers are put in here and there to cover "IGs behind" , although it doesn't help that I received the handbook 6/7 weeks after I started trading with them, (ie just after my "account manager" introduced himself to me for the first time with a belated apology and answered all the questions I had bombarded them with continuously for 4 weeks as issues arose without satisfactory resolution for weeks).. just seemed all a bit much..

Sure I do have all the examples of the graphs mentioned because many were sent with my complaint as I asked for clarification. Awful charts aside my point though is that there should have been greater visibility regarding which markets were skewd and which were not and still I cant find that information anywhere so I guess the default is ALL markets provided are potentially "doctored" by IG. Ah well if I knew that I wouldn't have started trading (oops I mean gambling) with them (or considered any spreadbetting company for that matter).

I agree though, theres no learning like losing and from that perspective I have noticed a massive difference between the quality of IG platform and others like Saxo , Optionexpress and my fav Strategy based Tradestation which suits me to a tee.. (ie loose the emotion and know upfront all the terms and all my limits and back test assumptions... and at least a charting system with features that actually work robustly).

Good trading to you..once again thanks for the real world comments

 

[Phil Mibbutz]

re. IG's 'customer services', does anyone ever receive a reply to e-mails, or am I being naive to expect a response?

 

[Pippppin]

I used to email them quite often in my early days as client of theirs, and they were always excellent in their response. Much better than most companies I have had dealings with, in any field, who generally ignore emails, or pretend they have never received them.

I have not emailed IG for a while. Maybe things have changed.