Ice Failure

Pitscum

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Weds evening....on the close at 19.30hrs, position check doesnt tally with TT trade confo screen.....transpires glorious ICE's computer software chose to go nutz and allocate EVERYBODY's trades in those final few seconds to different people, yes thats right, completely at random.

Following a conversation with the numpty that calls himself the CEO on the telephone, the best he can offer to the market is that the only postions that count are those at the clearing house and that ICE werent responsible for our positions being out.

So, what are we left with?

An electronic market becoming dominated by one entity.

An electronic market that refuses to be accountable for its errors

An electronic market that recently put up its clearing fees ad hoc even after the very successful launch of the WTI

Further, just to rub salt in the wounds, it was not until the early hours of Thursday morning did anyone work out what their real postion was. Totally and wholly unacceptable. And ICE's response was the following sad sack e-mail to all possibly affected counterparties:

Brent users are advised to check their TRS positions for their accurate trade information and position.

Thank you ICE.
 
Sounds like they are getting as bad as LIFFE. This lack of understanding on behalf of the electronic exchanges is probably due to the fact that the people who are dealing with support or running things are either techie anoraks or political manipulators who have never actually traded their own money in the market and so never realised the full horror of how these problems can effect a traders livelihood.
Ultimately however, give me screen trading any day of the week rather than the robbing pit-scum (no inference intended).
 
Give you a clue, ICE surpassed any pit robbing I have ever instigated or being victim to with their little trick the other night....
 
Very sorry , it makes me sick to hear this.
It is not something most people realise when they start trading on the screen is it?
One of the BIG risks is the system itself rather than the market. The local always takes the hit no matter whether it is the ISP, the exchange or the clearer who screwed up. The contracts when you sign up to these things remove all liability from those b*st*rds.
 
suffered in the same way you described twalker..........suffered multiple disconnects & repeated discrepancies between my pos and exchange

their tech is pants as u stated.....the potential worth via an ipo however is billions .....go figure.

elec trading however is still the future and rest assured we plan to be part of it .....

have u traded the new spread they are listing wti /brent??
its like the wild west.
good luck
 
I haven't but thinking about doing a lot more of my WTI biz on there rather than the Nymex pit. I would have thought the spread market electronic would be fairly good to scalp.
 
twalker said:
Sounds like they are getting as bad as LIFFE. This lack of understanding on behalf of the electronic exchanges is probably due to the fact that the people who are dealing with support or running things are either techie anoraks or political manipulators who have never actually traded their own money in the market and so never realised the full horror of how these problems can effect a traders livelihood.
Ultimately however, give me screen trading any day of the week rather than the robbing pit-scum (no inference intended).


would you really want the people running the support to have actually traded with their own money ? they could see everyones position ? surely you wouldn't want them trading with you ?

what problems have you had on LIFFE ? is the ICE platform better or worse than Connect do you think?
 
The ICE platform is notoriously unreliable.

LIFFE has also had a dreadful record on reliability but I think this is
more to do with general incompetence than the Connect platform itself.
CBOT seems to be able to run Connect without problems.

I remember LIFFE going down for more than a day a couple of years ago
and it went through a very bad period at the start of 2005. Seems to have
been a bit better recently so maybe they sacked a few people.
 
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The main issue I have with Liffe is the fact that they treat traders not like the customer they are but more like a problem. Considering we all pay 56p/roundo which then pays all their salaries I would expect LIFFE customer service and account managers would bend over backward but instead Liffe think they are the customer.
On the upside at least their support allow you to pull orders quickly when local IT problems occur, EUREX get the prize for taking for ever to pull resting orders when things go bad. It once took me 10 minutes to pull what was left of a eurex strip, I concluded that they must have a support scheme to employ lobotomy patients.
 
A lot of exchanges seem to have a poor attitude
They all seem to think you should stoop on your knees and kiss their feet just
for the privilege of being allowed to trade on their exchange. They can only get
away with it because they have an effective monopoly in specific contracts.
 
Exchanges are pretty complex computer systems. and in future the are likely only to get more complex.
very often the people you speak to directly at an exchange as a customer are not likely to be the ones who really understand the exchange (system) and what can go wrong with it (and this certainly includes the ICE ceo). its likely they are locked up in a back room frantically trying to peice the thing back together.

when an exchange system ****s up like ICEs did. everyone invloved is in the same boat. possibly several thousand other traders. we all want to get answers. hence the exchange people feel very defensive I think.

at the end of the day its technology. and technolgy does fail at some particularly unfortunate moments. speed and reliability are always a compromise.

that said poor attitude isn't going to win anyone a devoted user base.
 
Exchange systems are complicated but complexity and reliability are not the same thing. Designing for reliability using adeqaute redundancy and backup is a subject that is well understood so there is really no excuse.

It seems to US exchanges, e.g CME and CBOT are able to run the systems reliable and UK futures exchanges ICE, LIFFE are not. This makes me think it is more due to organisational incompetence rather than just down to the technology.

In contrast to the UK futures exchanges, I cannot remember the last time the LSE systems failed.
This is another very complex exchange system but it does seem to be run and maintained properly.
 
Grrr... Looks like April Fool's Day is 2 days late when it comes to Brent prices this morning. Can't tell whether it's a problem with ICE or just IG's data feed. :mad:
 
Justine Bohan

Why does it not occur to everyone in this forum, statistically, the only people making serious money at these trading games the have devised for the general public, be it options spreadbetting futures, curriences, the City and Wall street are the only people making money out of what they discribe is a techinical computer error or your own pc, my boyfriend works at the high end of IT, and there is nothing wrong with peoples computers and all these technical glitches they blame it on, it is a lie. All games are made up of winners and losers, if they weren't winning from all these mistakes they claim, they would not be in business, its white collar theft on a grand scale, everyone signs these so called documents to say, that none of these trading companies, will be held responsible for mistakes, they are playing with everybodys money, would you go into a bank and say here take my money, if you lose it through a technical glitch so be it ! i think not, i have been trading for four years, and it does not matter which trading company or product you use, when they see you are winning, they then make mistakes on your account, slowly stealing bit by bit thousands of peoples money, if everyone started to make money, they would go bust. Do not believe either when they say there bringing out better products its all sales gimmicks, to lure the losing punter back in once more. If they are not prepared to honour and correct computer or techincal errors they should reimberse the customer, but they never do. You expect the bank, that if someone stole money from your bank account, that the bank would honour with its insurance, and they do, they will not, as its easy money. Think of all they big investors who pump money into stocks, they are going to protect these investors, otherwise if people were making good money, it would be taking it out of their very own pockets, remember winners and losers unfortnately, is how all games are devised. Blue Index rang me the other day about some new product and i said to him all the city boys with big money are robbing Peter to pay Paul, has it not occured to these rich City people that if the punter cannot win consistently, they will not come back and his reply was " i think there are beginning to realise" !! when the well has run dry, then what, i said to him, If i can make money consistenly then you will make money and i will keep coming back, if not, overall its a lose, lose situation for everyone, eventually, even City trading companies will have bled everyone dry. Most trading Software example, CFD'S move to quickly, trackers move to slowly, its deliberate so the punter never wins. I have also been told that, some of them are not even hooked up to the actual exchanges, although they claim to be and this was by a trading company.
BEWARE, the documents these trading companies are producing, is nothing more, than Legal theft, so they cannot be sued ! The best one is OH! it fell through your stop, if they cannot honour stops in trading then, do not provide them, that unfortunately is the best con they have come up with, or if you do not use stops, and you suddenly want to get off a trade your software will just shut down, or you will be stuck waiting to get off a trade although you closed it out minutes ago, they will say oh there where alot of trades closing at the same, bad luck, what i say is if you cannot consistently honor, closing and opening trades, then do not proclaim, that on your trading software platform, they will be closed out instantly !! They are monitoring all trading accounts, and when they see the punters who are winning, these accounts are watched closely, and manipulated, and closed off so you cannot get off and on trades at the time you want to. BE CAREFUL, everyone has the same idea, make small profits to start with then build up, but of course they know that with all these malfunctions they can blame it on, the punter would never be able to bet large and build up there bank too much !! in case the trade malfunctioned from their classic excuse must be your PC Computer. So the situation for most traders becomes small profits here and there, if your lucky !!

But as we all know there is no such thing as luck when trading companies manipulate trades.

Justine Bohan

s, position check doesnt tally with TT trade confo screen.....transpires glorious ICE's computer software chose to go nutz and allocate EVERYBODY's trades in those final few seconds to different people, yes thats right, completely at random.

Following a conversation with the numpty that calls himself the CEO on the telephone, the best he can offer to the market is that the only postions that count are those at the clearing house and that ICE werent responsible for our positions being out.

So, what are we left with?

An electronic market becoming dominated by one entity.

An electronic market that refuses to be accountable for its errors

An electronic market that recently put up its clearing fees ad hoc even after the very successful launch of the WTI

Further, just to rub salt in the wounds, it was not until the early hours of Thursday morning did anyone work out what their real postion was. Totally and wholly unacceptable. And ICE's response was the following sad sack e-mail to all possibly affected counterparties:



Thank you ICE.[/QUOTE]
 
minx said:
So you're not much of a Monday person I take it!
no making money and working for a living has got to be the most boring thing ever, but then all these games they devise are boring, lets face it who does like working !!! how are you getting on with your trading?
 
justinebohan said:
no making money and working for a living has got to be the most boring thing ever, but then all these games they devise are boring, lets face it who does like working !!! how are you getting on with your trading?

Not bad, but its my job so if I wasnt doing ok I'd be unemployed. What happens when your hobby becomes your job :rolleyes:
 
minx said:
Not bad, but its my job so if I wasnt doing ok I'd be unemployed. What happens when your hobby becomes your job :rolleyes:
yeah no what you mean, are you working for a trading company or do you work alone ?
 
justinebohan said:
Why does it not occur to everyone in this forum, statistically, the only people making serious money at these trading games the have devised for the general public, be it options spreadbetting futures, curriences, the City and Wall street are the only people making money out of what they discribe is a techinical computer error or your own pc, my boyfriend works at the high end of IT, and there is nothing wrong with peoples computers and all these technical glitches they blame it on, it is a lie. All games are made up of winners and losers, if they weren't winning from all these mistakes they claim, they would not be in business, its white collar theft on a grand scale, everyone signs these so called documents to say, that none of these trading companies, will be held responsible for mistakes, they are playing with everybodys money, would you go into a bank and say here take my money, if you lose it through a technical glitch so be it ! i think not, i have been trading for four years, and it does not matter which trading company or product you use, when they see you are winning, they then make mistakes on your account, slowly stealing bit by bit thousands of peoples money, if everyone started to make money, they would go bust. Do not believe either when they say there bringing out better products its all sales gimmicks, to lure the losing punter back in once more. If they are not prepared to honour and correct computer or techincal errors they should reimberse the customer, but they never do. You expect the bank, that if someone stole money from your bank account, that the bank would honour with its insurance, and they do, they will not, as its easy money. Think of all they big investors who pump money into stocks, they are going to protect these investors, otherwise if people were making good money, it would be taking it out of their very own pockets, remember winners and losers unfortnately, is how all games are devised. Blue Index rang me the other day about some new product and i said to him all the city boys with big money are robbing Peter to pay Paul, has it not occured to these rich City people that if the punter cannot win consistently, they will not come back and his reply was " i think there are beginning to realise" !! when the well has run dry, then what, i said to him, If i can make money consistenly then you will make money and i will keep coming back, if not, overall its a lose, lose situation for everyone, eventually, even City trading companies will have bled everyone dry. Most trading Software example, CFD'S move to quickly, trackers move to slowly, its deliberate so the punter never wins. I have also been told that, some of them are not even hooked up to the actual exchanges, although they claim to be and this was by a trading company.
BEWARE, the documents these trading companies are producing, is nothing more, than Legal theft, so they cannot be sued ! The best one is OH! it fell through your stop, if they cannot honour stops in trading then, do not provide them, that unfortunately is the best con they have come up with, or if you do not use stops, and you suddenly want to get off a trade your software will just shut down, or you will be stuck waiting to get off a trade although you closed it out minutes ago, they will say oh there where alot of trades closing at the same, bad luck, what i say is if you cannot consistently honor, closing and opening trades, then do not proclaim, that on your trading software platform, they will be closed out instantly !! They are monitoring all trading accounts, and when they see the punters who are winning, these accounts are watched closely, and manipulated, and closed off so you cannot get off and on trades at the time you want to. BE CAREFUL, everyone has the same idea, make small profits to start with then build up, but of course they know that with all these malfunctions they can blame it on, the punter would never be able to bet large and build up there bank too much !! in case the trade malfunctioned from their classic excuse must be your PC Computer. So the situation for most traders becomes small profits here and there, if your lucky !!

But as we all know there is no such thing as luck when trading companies manipulate trades.

Justine Bohan

s, position check doesnt tally with TT trade confo screen.....transpires glorious ICE's computer software chose to go nutz and allocate EVERYBODY's trades in those final few seconds to different people, yes thats right, completely at random.

Following a conversation with the numpty that calls himself the CEO on the telephone, the best he can offer to the market is that the only postions that count are those at the clearing house and that ICE werent responsible for our positions being out.

So, what are we left with?

An electronic market becoming dominated by one entity.

An electronic market that refuses to be accountable for its errors

An electronic market that recently put up its clearing fees ad hoc even after the very successful launch of the WTI

Further, just to rub salt in the wounds, it was not until the early hours of Thursday morning did anyone work out what their real postion was. Totally and wholly unacceptable. And ICE's response was the following sad sack e-mail to all possibly affected counterparties:



Thank you ICE.
[/QUOTE]



Interesting Thread

However a bad workman blames his tools
 
Pete007 said:
Interesting Thread

However a bad workman blames his tools

how do you work that out?

If you had traded perfectly well all day and cleared a tidy profit, but at the end of the day you found you had been allocated random trades by the exchange for a big net loss, who would YOU be blaming?

"aww shucks, I'm such a bad trader" I dont think so
 
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