How would you deal with this?

[seancass]

There is a phenomenal well of expertise on this Board and so I am going to seek advice from our legal beavers or those who have gone along the same road before.

In short, I purchased a new car four weeks ago from a main Toyota Dealership. The car's gearbox is giving some concern in so far as the transmission from first into second is not at all smooth. There are, additionally, some squeaks and another clicking noise when acceleration and deceleration are effected!!

I took it back to be checked out and they didn't seem to be too concerned. "Oh that's just the model's gear box; it's a bit notchity" (their word, not mine!) They told me to seek a second opinion at another dealer; I did so. Two mechanics at dealership number 2 examined the car and test-drove it and are concerned that there may be a gear box fault and that it may require the gear box to be taken out and stripped!! To enable that, the engine has to be removed!!

I telephoned the dealership from whom the car was purchased and informed them that I wanted a refund or a replacement vehicle. They felt that was unreasonable and that they have offered to carry out repairs under the warranty. "After all," they said, "That's why you have been given the manufacturer's warranty."

But who wants to spend £18,000 on a brand new vehicle only to have to dip straight into the protection of the warranty for the purposes of allowing them to strip the gearbox. Am I within my rights insisting on a new vehicle or a refund? I have threatened to sue. Am I being unreasonable as suggested by the dealership from whom I purchased the vehicle in good faith?

Many thanks,
Sean

 

[ChartMan]

You'd be very lucky to get any manufacturer to give you a new replacement car.... however , after just 4 weeks, you may stand a chance. Clearly their first statement was a fob off.

 

[bored]

Sean
Go back to the dealer you purchased from and insist on a replacement vehicle.
The chances are you won't get one, but then "compromise" on a new factory Toyota gearbox, a straight swap for the faulty one. Do not accept a repair or a recondition.Most(if not all) repairs to gearboxes are not carried out by dealers at all, they are done by local specialists. Nothing wrong with that , you may say, except the job normally comes with explicit instructions to be carried out as cheaply as possible. I know, I owned a "specialist company" in Kent, near where you bought your vehicle from, and carried out work for main dealers on a regular basis. Even if you are offered a factory rebuild, refuse it and insist on new, and ask to see the invoice from the Toyota factory for it when it has been fitted.
Best of luck
Martin

 

[seancass]

Hi Martin,

Many thanks indeed for the information.

I'll be in touch in the morning.

Best wishes,
Sean

Chartman, I will persevere until I get the result I am looking for.

 

[eminem]

If you are going to get a refund you need to act quickly as time is of the essence here. If there is a fault which you feel is unacceptable you need to formally reject the car in writing requesting a full refund or brand new replacement vehicle. However, the tricky part in getting the law on your side in this situation is that normally you should give the dealer the chance to rectify the issues with the vehicle to your full satisfaction. The fact that you have got a second opinion will help you though. Have you test driven another similar vehicle to confirm the fualt exists only on your car? It may be a peculiarity of that model, that is to say all those models have notchy gearboxes. Have you checked to see if it is a "running-in" issue i.e. the problem will dissappear once it has been fully run-in? Ask that question to the guys you got a second opinion off not your dealer as they are bound to say it will go once run in.

Ask for a copy of the Pre-Delivery Inspection report too, it won't help you much but it is extra evidence should you need it - it also may have a note on it about the gearbox being noisey in which case you have a case as the dealer let a car go out with a known fault. However, don't get your hopes up on that as there are a suprising number of faults that go un-noticed on the PDI's across the industry.

Get the dialogue going with the dealer principle too, not the salesman or sales manager - they will fob you off and delay you all they can in this respect as the DP will not want to get involved in customer disputes thats for the guys on the floor to deal with. But demand that you deal with the DP, he may give way quicker just to get rid of the awkward customer. If no joy there get hold of the Toyotas main customer service desk at the head office, remember dealerships are just franchises they are answerable to the HO organisation and will suffer if they end up with more than there fair share of customer complaints going to HO.

If they start to bend and offer a replacement gearbox demand that it is done buy Toyota trained staff and that you wish to carry out random inpsection visits during the process to ensure this is done, also put them on notice that if the fault isn't then rectified satisfactorily you will be rejecting the vehicle for a full refund/replacement.

Hope thats of some use to you.

 

[madasafish]

for really expert advice go to :

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/threads.htm?f=4


lots of free and expert advice on all sorts of car problems...

 

[spreadbet]

Hi seancass

Many years ago I had similar problems with a car. In the end I had an independent examination of the vehicle by the RAC. This examination was very technical and highlighted faults I had not picked up. The dealership involved could then offer no legal argument and were obliged to correct all the faults at their cost.

Cheers and good luck

spreadbet

 

[seancass]

Eminem, Many thanks indeed for the useful information and the trouble you have taken to supply such a well-informed response. I have a dialogue going on with the DP right now and we both want to avoid any protracted dispute. I have taken all your points on board.

Madasafish and Spreadbet, points taken, many thanks indeed.

Best wishes,
Sean

 

[peugots]

Seancass I think you need to seek an expert on consumer law here; the best "relevant" lawyers I know of are available through the "Which?" consumers association and they are reasonably priced from what I can gather.


All the best.

 

[seancass]

Hi Peugots,

We're both hoping to avoid that by coming to an amicable arrangement. We shall see!

Best wishes,
Sean

 

[dolton]

Go to 192.com and find the name and home address of the chairman and/or CEO of the UK importer write him/her personally and advise them you are going to write them a letter of complaint every seven days until they do something about replacing the vehicle also advise them you will post the letters to the media equally on a seven say cycle............

 

[citroen999]

hi
I have worked in a Citroen garage and i now work for Vw as a salesman.

It is not up to the dealership to provide a replacement vehicle, its up to Toyota. The dealership has to put your case forward to them and you have to hope that they will agree with you. The dealership is simply just an agent for Toyota and any problems regarding warranty have to be authorised by Toyota. So if its a new gearbox that is required then the dealership ask toyota to supply, but first they will want to look at it to find the problem.
In some cases the dealership will fix the problem and take the loss if they feel Toyota are being unreasonable or if you stamp and scream long enough.

It may be something simple to rectify and have no affect on the cars performance from that day on, in this case you have to decide are you going to be reasonable or not. I know spending thousands on the car and a problem arises is a bit of a pain, but its a man made machine with 1000s of moving parts, something will go wrong with that car wether its the first day off the production line or the last day before it gets crushed in 20 years time. (Not sticking up for the dealership just trying to be sensible)
Because I work in the industry and see this quite often i think if you give the dealership a chance you will get the required result.

If you get trading standards involved the usual course is 3 attempts to rectify the problem.

A couple of tips..

Dont deal with the salesman, he did not build the car and he has no authorisation whats so ever to do anything.

Dont deal with the numptys on the service desk either.

Deal with the general manager, new car or franchise manager and service manager.

Write a letter to head office of the dealership, the area director and Toyota, then fax a copy to the dealership but only after you have given time for the letter to reach the people you have sent it to :cheesy: , he wont have time to get his side in before you.
To get the area directors name ask the main receptionist, others will dodge the issue.

In my opinion i would give the dealership a chance and try and be reasonable, but then again it aint my money..

Good luck

PS.. if anyone wants brand new pre registered Passats, Boras and Polos with savings of upto £3000 (not imports) i work for a VW UK dealership then msg me :cheesy:
Sorry all the golfs have been sold because of the massive saving

Threatening legal action and threatening to write to your local paper or watchdog wont do much good.

 

[seancass]

It's interesting to hear the views of another member within the trade.

I feel quite strongly that a warranty is in place to protect your interests within the first three years of any problem developing. It is unacceptable for Toyota or anyone else to expect a customer to purchase a vehicle where there may be a fault that was established at the point of manufacture. Anyway, it is an academic point and I'll see what Toyota say to me tomorrow. Statutory Rights, as conferred within consumer protection legislation, differ from protection afforded under warranty ( or so I believe.)

I have a dialogue ongoing with the Dealer Principal and I've left it to him to put forward solutions to the problem that may be acceptable to us both.

Thank you for the input.

Best wishes,
Sean

 

[Les Battersby]

Get your solicitor to write a letter to say you are rejecting the car under the terms of The Sale of Goods Act 1979 and demand a full refund

http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale)

 

[seancass]

Thank you Les,

I have done much research over the past forty eight hours and these statutory rights, of which you speak, in addition to the manufacturer's warranty, quite clearly exist.

I have a discussion scheduled with Toyota tomorrow. Thank you everyone for your kind contributions and advice. This type of mutual support is one of the undeniable strengths of the Board.


Best wishes,
Sean

 

[seancass]

Thank you to those of you who voiced advice and recommendation over the predicament I had with my new car. I am pleased to say that over the weekend Toyota offered a full refund.

I am now off to buy a new car - probably a Toyota!

Best wishes,
Sean

 

[dsmodi]

well, which one did u get then?

 

[seancass]

Toyota Avensis semi-auto. Lovely car.

Best wishes,
Sean