How To Think Correctly

[SOCRATES]

Socrates, it might be beneficial to expand on this "transposition of experience", as it appears to have relevance.

Yes, I am pleased you are stimulated to ask, both for your benefit and for the benefit of a particular member who is in the gallery at the moment....no doubt he will think I am taking words out of his mouth..:cheesy: ...greetings !

I will expand in the post that follows.

 

[CYOF]

Yes, and then it must be implemented to become an invention. Although not all ideas are tangible.

And why are not all ideas tangible, n_t?

 

[new_trader]

And why are not all ideas tangible, n_t?

An idea can simply be a better way of doing something.

 

[CYOF]

An idea can simply be a better way of doing something.

And how does one do something better, and know that it is better than another way of doing something, n_t?

 

[CYOF]

Back to the piano - as it is very important.

Remeber when we mentioned the Pharaoh quiz, and how an Egyptologist would more than likely get 7 out of 7.

The master musician thinks on the same plane as the Egyptologist :idea:

 

[SOCRATES]

Well...it is like this...

Let us go back to the recital given by the children, and the different views of the parents and the teacher.

They are very different and I will proceed to explain why.

We are going to explore the concept of an audience within an audience ( this incidentally is one reason why many members do not always grab what I deeply mean in many of my posts).

You may recall a post I made about the performance of magic by a magician for different audiences...for an audience of children, for an audience of adults, and for an audience of fellow magicians..

Let us transpose this to music.

I play classical guitar. When I listen to a recording of a peice in my repertoire played by another guitarist, be it Williams, Segovia, Parkening, Boyd, Bellucci, Yepes, Li, or whoever, quite apart from the technical aspects, ( what instrument, what strings, etc.,) my attention focuses to a deeper extent than that of an audience of lovers of classical guitar because in effect what happens is that I live it. Every note and its colour, tone, volume and duration for me has special meaning as I am able to identify in a very deep sense and harmonise, in effect, sort "of living it". This is very differernt to listening and enjoying.

This takes me to the Socratic dialogue you posted as a pdf that has gone unnoticed.

In this discussion between Socrates 400 BC and Ion, the discussion has structure, in which there is a very important and valuable lesson I will bring to your notice, in the event you have overlooked it.

Socrates commences by establishing that Ion has memorised his performances and is able to recall.

But this in itself is not enough.

He now leads Ion into a discussion, of whose purpose Ion is unaware.

To the casual observer, it appears to be a rambling, endless, meandering, inquisitive pointless serial questioning and answering session.

Not so.

I am being called, sorry, later...

 

[new_trader]

And how does one do something better, and know that it is better than another way of doing something, n_t?

Through evolution of ideas. Each idea is auditioned to find out if it results in an improvement.

 

[new_trader]

Well...it is like this...

Let us go back to the recital given by the children, and the different views of the parents and the teacher.

They are very different and I will proceed to explain why.

We are going to explore the concept of an audience within an audience ( this incidentally is one reason why many members do not always grab what I deeply mean in many of my posts).

You may recall a post I made about the performance of magic by a magician for different audiences...for an audience of children, for an audience of adults, and for an audience of fellow magicians..

Let us transpose this to music.

I play classical guitar. When I listen to a recording of a peice in my repertoire played by another guitarist, be it Williams, Segovia, Parkening, Boyd, Bellucci, Yepes, Li, or whoever, quite apart from the technical aspects, ( what instrument, what strings, etc.,) my attention focuses to a deeper extent than that of an audience of lovers of classical guitar because in effect what happens is that I live it. Every note and its colour, tone, volume and duration for me has special meaning as I am able to identify in a very deep sense and harmonise, in effect, sort "of living it". This is very differernt to listening and enjoying.

This takes me to the Socratic dialogue you posted as a pdf that has gone unnoticed.

In this discussion between Socrates 400 BC and Ion, the discussion has structure, in which there is a very important and valuable lesson I will bring to your notice, in the event you have overlooked it.

Socrates commences by establishing that Ion has memorised his performances and is able to recall.

But this in itself is not enough.

He now leads Ion into a discussion, of whose purpose Ion is unaware.

To the casual observer, it appears to be a rambling, endless, meandering, inquisitive pointless serial questioning and answering session.

Not so.

I am being called, sorry, later...

That to me is the ability to identify with the composer. I find that when I listen to Chopin and François Couperin I understand what they feeling when they composed the pieces. BUT, the interpreteation (of which there are many) plays an important role. Like thinking correctly, there are many incorrect ways to interpret and play a piece but only a few correct ways.

 

[ian]

I don't remember that program but there was one on a few weeks ago about an American Gated community. The idea being that they wanted to move away from the so called filth in society, the drugs, drink etc. The reporter went around this gated community and discovered the same thing happening within the gates of thie community that was happening outside.

Yes, something along those lines.

But in the program that I saw it was the guy that started it all that had the problems. First the interviewer asked him simple stuff like 'who takes out the garbage' to be met with a bewildered guy just blinking at the camera!...then the question about his criminal record for fraud and lalso his alleged interest in kiddies...again, fumbling and blinking.

Switch to the 'chosen ones' - same questions..Doh!

They hadnt bothered their arses checking out anything at all, they were so up them selves that all it took was a glib toungued con man to tell them what they wanted to hear and took it hook line and sinker.

The beautifull island turned out to be a dumping ground for toxic waste used previously by Uncle Sam.

 

[CYOF]

Well...it is like this...

Let us go back to the recital given by the children, and the different views of the parents and the teacher.

They are very different and I will proceed to explain why.

We are going to explore the concept of an audience within an audience ( this incidentally is one reason why many members do not always grab what I deeply mean in many of my posts).

You may recall a post I made about the performance of magic by a magician for different audiences...for an audience of children, for an audience of adults, and for an audience of fellow magicians..

Let us transpose this to music.

I play classical guitar. When I listen to a recording of a peice in my repertoire played by another guitarist, be it Williams, Segovia, Parkening, Boyd, Bellucci, Yepes, Li, or whoever, quite apart from the technical aspects, ( what instrument, what strings, etc.,) my attention focuses to a deeper extent than that of an audience of lovers of classical guitar because in effect what happens is that I live it. Every note and its colour, tone, volume and duration for me has special meaning as I am able to identify in a very deep sense and harmonise, in effect, sort "of living it". This is very differernt to listening and enjoying.

This takes me to the Socratic dialogue you posted as a pdf that has gone unnoticed.

In this discussion between Socrates 400 BC and Ion, the discussion has structure, in which there is a very important and valuable lesson I will bring to your notice, in the event you have overlooked it.

Socrates commences by establishing that Ion has memorised his performances and is able to recall.

But this in itself is not enough.

He now leads Ion into a discussion, of whose purpose Ion is unaware.

To the casual observer, it appears to be a rambling, endless, meandering, inquisitive pointless serial questioning and answering session.

Not so.

I am being called, sorry, later...

BRILLIANT Socrates - absolutely BRILLIANT, I am not sure if I have added to your reputation, but I will surely do now.

Yes, you are indeed very awake and observant - I will not spoil your ending, but all I will say is that I keep reading this ION dialogue, over and over, and when I do, I get emotional, so much so that tears nearly fill my eyes.

But it is not for the reason that most will think - but I do think that you know the reason, and to state it out would do an injustice to all who want to learn something of real value, for the real joy is in the personal discovery, and personal discovery is a very motivating power.

Looking forward to your reply.

 

[CYOF]

Through evolution of ideas. Each idea is auditioned to find out if it results in an improvement.

And what is "evolution of ideas" n_t? When you say "each idea is auditioned to find out if it results in an improvement", how exactly is this process carried out? What type of ideas are we talking about, and do they all require different processes, or is the same process used for all? And if the same process is used, what is that one common process? What exactly is an idea, is it really just a "better way of doing something"?

 

[Legion]

hmm, anyone listen to radio 4 last night, bit of natter re emotional intelligence, the brain,( neo cortex reasoning and the amygdala emotion) how that the amygdala can get us to action before we become consciously aware of what and why we are doing or have just done/performed the action.

I think the book was called emotional intelligence.

The emotion always governs the reasoning part of the brain apparently (so far in our evolution anyway)

So if we can shut off the amygdala then we should function without emotion. Surgery may be drastic but, can we shut down the amygdala in another way? hmm or maybe reduce its emotional governance over us as humans by consciously directing it to shut off or limit its function.

it was a very interesting snippet to listen to whilst dozing in bed.

 

[SOCRATES]

Through evolution of ideas. Each idea is auditioned to find out if it results in an improvement.

E.....Exactly,,,you have taken the words out of my mouth in completing the last post. Thank you.

 

[CYOF]

That to me is the ability to identify with the composer. I find that when I listen to Chopin and François Couperin I understand what they feeling when they composed the pieces. BUT, the interpreteation (of which there are many) plays an important role. Like thinking correctly, there are many incorrect ways to interpret and play a piece but only a few correct ways.

Each will hear the music differently due to their way of thinking - no more, no less.

If you want to appreaciate the real value of classical music, or art, or anything for that matter, even for trading - my, I nearly forgot about that , then you must realise that you have to think like the master musician, or the artist, or the succesful trader.

You have to think on the same level on consciousness - as there are many levels, and the first step to discovering these levels is SILENCE.

BTW, I am still waiting for the answer, I don't think anyone has mentioned the word yet, but I will check. If not, I will post after checking the wobbler - for this one is still in my mind and I must gather more details before I reply.

 

[SOCRATES]

hmm, anyone listen to radio 4 last night, bit of natter re emotional intelligence, the brain,( neo cortex reasoning and the amygdala emotion) how that the amygdala can get us to action before we become consciously aware of what and why we are doing or have just done/performed the action.

I think the book was called emotional intelligence.

The emotion always governs the reasoning part of the brain apparently (so far in our evolution anyway)

So if we can shut off the amygdala then we should function without emotion. Surgery may be drastic but, can we shut down the amygdala in another way? hmm or maybe reduce its emotional governance over us as humans by consciously directing it to shut off or limit its function.

it was a very interesting snippet to listen to whilst dozing in bed.

There is a sort of little rheostat that subdues it and a switch that confirms it is turned off.

 

[new_trader]

And what is "evolution of ideas" n_t? When you say "each idea is auditioned to find out if it results in an improvement", how exactly is this process carried out? What type of ideas are we talking about, and do they all require different processes, or is the same process used for all? And if the same process is used, what is that one common process? What exactly is an idea, is it really just a "better way of doing something"?

I was explaining how an idea does not always lead to a tangible product or invention. An example may be a person deciding to do all their grocery shopping online instead of going out in the cold and struggling to find parking. They have the idea and then implement it. If it turns out to be an improvement, they stick with it.

 

[new_trader]

Each will hear the music differently due to their way of thinking - no more, no less.

Hearing is very different from appreciating and understanding. Thats why to some it's just piano music.....

 

[CYOF]

E.....Exactly,,,you have taken the words out of my mouth in completing the last post. Thank you.

Whilst this is correct, we need to be a bit more clearer for some.

Yes, we can call it picking the brains, to see what truths will emerge, but I also happen to believe that we can obtain a much wider meaning to the writings of the Philosophers by examining in detail, not just the words in themselves, but the picture that the words paint.

I think some will get my drift, while others may not, but rest assured, your understanding is entirely dependant on how you think!

 

[trendie]

I was explaining how an idea does not always lead to a tangible product or invention. An example may be a person deciding to do all their grocery shopping online instead of going out in the cold and struggling to find parking. They have the idea and then implement it. If it turns out to be an improvement, they stick with it.

from another perspective, the on-line shopper has merely shifted the burden of trudging around shops in the cold to another person.

the act of picking up groceries, and the cold remain.

its just someone else that gets cold and tired.

the idea is not an improvement overall, only a shifting of burdens from one to another.

 

[blackcab]

I'm enjoying this discussion - like a good journey it's going off into useful places regardless of the destination. It's like three people looking at a painting and discussing the question 'what is essential for great art'? A says paint, canvas, atoms, spacetime. B says a good eye, skill, imagination, practice, confidence. C says vision, connectedness, realisation, revelation, soul, and maybe or maybe not also God. Are any of them wrong and if so, which of them? Does it cause any of them harm that (being exaggerated stereotypes) they won't ever agree on 'the' answer?