How are poker and trading related/compared?

[niraj shah]

Hi,

I was wondering how closely related is poker/gambling and trading.

I don't trade or gamble.
I did play poker once and I was shocked with some crazy things some of the people were doing, which took them out of the game. I did not know how to play poker but served till the end through money managemnet until I ran out of money. One of the greatest games in the world but very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing and if you have a bad money management style and a poor psychology.

Any views?

 

[PualoP]

Poker and trading are very related in the fact that 90-99% of people lose money :cheesy:

 

[niraj shah]

but great games though.

 

[TheBramble]

niraj, just out of interest, what are you doing here if you neither trade nor gamble?

To answer your question though, you keep folding until you get a hand that's got a high probability of winning.

 

[Daytradingit]

Both Poker and financial trading pay you for one thing and one thing only: Dicipline.
Risk management, observational skills and a focus on exploiting the weaknesses of others are some major common traits of pro's in each field.

 

[new_trader]

Poker(ignoring the possibility of the house's cut), and futures trading are zero sum games. The strong hands always win most of the money in both.

 

[Masquerade]

Money management is key - don't put everything on the line in every game/trade. Even if you're the best things don't always go your way.

Patience - just like it's advantageous to wait for strong hands, you've got to wait for the right trades to make rather than just playing any random hand/trade and hoping to get lucky.

You've got to know when to stay and when to get out quick.

And finally, a bit of luck always helps

 

[SAINT]

Similar in dealing with scaled risk but no real benfit in mixing both.

 

[RogueTrader888888]

trading has much less "bad beats" than poker. in poker u can play perfectly and still come out a loser in the end (in the immediate hand or short term).

 

[TWI]

Manro Haden sponsor a poker team but generally fund people trading commodities. Guess they see it as much the same thing.

 

[donone]

Playing tournament Poker & single table tourneys on line has helped me immensely in understanding my own weakness in trading.

I have what Martin "buddy" Shwartz (Pit Bull) calls "sunspot moments" - I can sit playing immaculate poker for 3 hours & then when the goal is within sight, make the stupidest bets on hands I KNOW are going to be losers - unless some stroke of fate intervenes.

Cash Poker IMHO is a mugs game - but in tourney poker - you WILL learn a lot about yourself - (IF you Want to learn)

I play for Micro stakes (10c, 20c 50c ) & now I know exactly where some of my biggest trading losers have come from - losers in the £thousands - it takes an awful lot to recover those stupid losses - better by far Not to lose them in the first place.

 

[harrymonk]

I am not sure how they are related, but there are many things between the two.
I use online Poker as a great way to stop myself from overtrading on my trades though.
I am constantly learning both though, if you can be adaptable I think it helps in both, and also sticking to a system.

 

[RogueTrader888888]

Cash Poker IMHO is a mugs game - but in tourney poker - you WILL learn a lot about yourself

U mean donkaments take more skill than cash? give me a break. The only true form of poker is no limit cash, followed by limit cash and in the distance somewhere are these donkaments where u have only 10 big bets if ur lucky and push with any pocket pair or ace pre flop...not sure that is skill.

 

[PualoP]

U mean donkaments take more skill than cash? give me a break. The only true form of poker is no limit cash, followed by limit cash and in the distance somewhere are these donkaments where u have only 10 big bets if ur lucky and push with any pocket pair or ace pre flop...not sure that is skill.

OMG!! Here we go, this is the poker equivalent of "day trading is best", "no, swing trading is best" argument. I guess poker players and traders have alot more in commen than I thought

 

[Masquerade]

I concur with the sentiments of cash vs tournaments. Cash all the way!

 

[Jaydee]

I concur with the sentiments of cash vs tournaments. Cash all the way!

Yes, I agree too. There is a lot more luck involved in tournaments due to the rising blind structure putting pressure on you to make moves (often gambles). You are often forced to go all in as a 2:1 favourite (opponent has a flush draw for example and you have top pair). In long tournaments, this can happen quite a lot but you should only, statistically, expect to win 2 times out of 3.

With Cash you play each hand as it comes. The previous hand has no influence on the present one and, if you get unlucky with 2:1 situation, you just hit the 'rebuy' button. In the long run, you should make money against the fish.

 

[donone]

..........With Cash you play each hand as it comes. The previous hand has no influence on the present one and, if you get unlucky with 2:1 situation, you just hit the 'rebuy' button. In the long run, you should make money against the fish.

a) Couple of points - Cash "In it's purest form" - is like trading without a stop & one hand can Break you.

b) I Never "Rebuy" (move your stop further away ) - That's like betting "each way " on the horses - It reduces your overall odds drastically. - If you're out - you're out - wait for the next Tourney (Trade) Accept your loss & don't try to get even

So I guess the Analogy with day trading / position trading is really quite good - in cash each trade is one hand, whereas in Tourney, each trade is a whole tourney, with it's advances, retracements, "getting stopped out" (losing all your chips - Known "risk") & bigger potential wins.

Whereas in "true cash" - you can lose your entire personal wealth on one hand. - which is really what I meant by "Mug's Game" - I KNOW many of the "world's greats" play true cash as well (Doyle Brunson Sammy Faarha etc) & are prepared to take the risk of "Losing the House" - a bit like old "Jesse Livermore" in trading really. - But that's Not to My taste

 

[Masquerade]

You're forgetting one thing donone: money management.

Unless you play with all your money on the table (highly stupid even if you're the best player in the world) one hand isn't going to break you. It is using a stop. You buy in for x amount - you'll either win or lose x and no more.

I've rebought before - why not? if you have an edge and for whatever reason the statistics didn't hold up in your favour why walk away; that's just silly. You can always limit yourself to x number of buy ins a day and quit once you hit.

 

[Jaydee]

a) Couple of points - Cash "In it's purest form" - is like trading without a stop & one hand can Break you.

b) I Never "Rebuy" (move your stop further away ) - That's like betting "each way " on the horses - It reduces your overall odds drastically. - If you're out - you're out - wait for the next Tourney (Trade) Accept your loss & don't try to get even

As long as you have between 20 - 30 buy ins, there isn't much of a risk.

E.g. On a £2.5/5 table - the max buy in is £500. You should have at least £10,000 in your poker account before you play that type of blind level.

I agree with your idea of rebuying in tournaments, though. Cash rebuying is quite different, however.

 

[Jaydee]

You're forgetting one thing donone: money management.

Unless you play with all your money on the table (highly stupid even if you're the best player in the world) one hand isn't going to break you. It is using a stop. You buy in for x amount - you'll either win or lose x and no more.

I've rebought before - why not? if you have an edge and for whatever reason the statistics didn't hold up in your favour why walk away; that's just silly. You can always limit yourself to x number of buy ins a day and quit once you hit.

Exactly