Help: Problem with contract length!

[Jonny_m]

I have an interview with a prop trading firm soon for entry in a couple of months, and on the website it says that its an 18 month training programme. The problem is that I am also intending on applying to the graduate programmes of Investment Banks in a couple of months. If I manage to secure a grad programme from one of the banks then it will most probably be for entry in September 2011.

So my main question is this: assuming I secure placements with both the prop trading firm and an IB grad programme, can I just leave the firm 12 months through even if the contract will most probably be for 18 months? What are the implications of this?

Thanks...

 

[rosehound]

What shop offers 18mth training scheme??? if you were actually trading and doing ok after a year why would you want to go and be someone's bitch at a bank?

 

[Jonny_m]

What shop offers 18mth training scheme??? if you were actually trading and doing ok after a year why would you want to go and be someone's bitch at a bank?

It's Mako Trading. I don't know if the contract is 18 months, but the website says that the trainee trader programme runs for a period of 18 months so I'm taking a guess that that's how long the contract is too. I've read also that a small percentage of the grads on the trainee programme end up making it to a proper trader position once the programme is over, which is why I also want to apply for grad positions.

Also I think that in an IB it will be easier to move roles in the event that I end up deciding that trading is not for me (unlikely). So suppose that I am successful in obtaining an offer from both Mako and also an IB grad programme, and I start working in Mako with the intent of moving to the IB after a year (when the IB grad programme starts). In this scenario, would I be able to just move even if my contract hasn't expired?

 

[Pento]

If you get an offer from Mako to start in a month and an offer from an IB to start in sep 11, and you want to start at Mako and then jump ship to IB then you should be fair and just decline Mako. Go travelling or get some temping work until sep 11.

How is it right that they spend the next 12 months training you to trade? Costs a lot of time and money when you won't be making them anything. And then just as the training is nearing completion you intend to leave to go to an IB.

Shame on you.

 

[Jonny_m]

If you get an offer from Mako to start in a month and an offer from an IB to start in sep 11, and you want to start at Mako and then jump ship to IB then you should be fair and just decline Mako. Go travelling or get some temping work until sep 11.

How is it right that they spend the next 12 months training you to trade? Costs a lot of time and money when you won't be making them anything. And then just as the training is nearing completion you intend to leave to go to an IB.

Shame on you.

Are you joking? I'm afraid your argument is rubbish. Do you really think that this is an industry where we have to sit down and 'feel sorry' for our employee when a better opportunity arises? You know as well as I do that banks as well as trading firms won't give two ****s about firing their employess (regardless of contract) when they want to reduce costs.

Secondly with regard to your comment about finding a temp job, do you really think that people like myself haven't considered that already? There is a severe lack of trading positions available even for people who have done numerous trading internships at bulge bracket investment banks such as myself.

Also, when you say "costs alot of time and money when you won't be making them anything" is BS. No firm is stupid enough to pay its employees a salary purely on the hope of them staying on after the graduate programme and then adding value. Throughout the trainee programme you also work as a trading assistant so they are paying you for a service- no different than every other financial services firm.

Mako mention themselves on their prospectus that very few trainees end up being hired on a permanent basis. Why then is it wrong for someone to apply to other places in order to maximise their career opportunity?

 

[Pento]

Firstly, chillax.

Nothing wrong with applying to other places to make the most of your career. But you were asking that if you get offers from both firms, whether you could start at one of them on an 18 month training programme with the intention of leaving within 12 months to join the other firm. Slightly underhand joining but having no intention of seeing the scheme through to completion.

Plus I doubt a bank or trading firm will fire a trader who is making them money.

In regards to Mako paying you a salary as you will be adding value; I don't know enough about their training process, but even assuming you are a trading assistant do you really think you will add much value in that role? They will after all be training you on how to perform the role. Rather than the salary they pay you it's the other employees time that has been wasted by sitting there and teaching you.

Can I ask why you want to work there for 12 months and to then leave anyway? What do you think you will achieve from it?

 

[crude_lover]

more importantly lets see if you get an offer from Mako first lol

 

[scose-no-doubt]

Wish I was in a position to be pooh poohing offers lol.

 

[Jonny_m]

Firstly, chillax.

Nothing wrong with applying to other places to make the most of your career. But you were asking that if you get offers from both firms, whether you could start at one of them on an 18 month training programme with the intention of leaving within 12 months to join the other firm. Slightly underhand joining but having no intention of seeing the scheme through to completion.

Plus I doubt a bank or trading firm will fire a trader who is making them money.

In regards to Mako paying you a salary as you will be adding value; I don't know enough about their training process, but even assuming you are a trading assistant do you really think you will add much value in that role? They will after all be training you on how to perform the role. Rather than the salary they pay you it's the other employees time that has been wasted by sitting there and teaching you.

Can I ask why you want to work there for 12 months and to then leave anyway? What do you think you will achieve from it?

Sorry for the over-reaction lol. I'm not going to make applications to other places with the intention of leaving definitely 100%. It's mainly as a backup. I think what I will do is that assuming I get an offer from an IB grad programme and Mako (unlikely), then after 12 months I will tell my manager at Mako where I stand at that point of time with regards to being hired permanently and will tell him that I have been offered a job somewhere else, and if it seems that I will most likely be hired given the way I'm working then I will stay with Mako. It's just that my biggest nightmare is rejecting a grad programme and then being let go a few months afterwards.

It's true that it's unlikely they will fire someone making money for them, but as you said yourself I'm not going to be adding that much value to them never mind making them money. I've read other posts on this forum about Liquid Capital and how some of the trainee traders were just let go after 3-4 months for no reason, which is probably whats caused me to think in this way!

 

[Jonny_m]

more importantly lets see if you get an offer from Mako first lol

I think I'm definitely going to be taught a lesson for being so overly optimistic lol.

 

[arabianights]

Well you ain't gonna be getting an offer from em now

(P.S. Mako aren't a prop shop. You're awfully arrogant for a little shit who hasn't a clue)

 

[Jonny_m]

Well you ain't gonna be getting an offer from em now

(P.S. Mako aren't a prop shop. You're awfully arrogant for a little shit who hasn't a clue)

I "ain't gonna be getting an offer from em now?" And where exactly do you get this magical insight into the future from?

I'm not arrogant, I'm just trying to assess the likelihood of certain things happening and to figure out what I'll do in response. When I initially asked the question, I was asking what would happen if in this unlikely scenario I received offers from both Mako and an IB and I accepted both. I wanted to know if there were any legal implications that would prevent me applying to other firms if I had already accepted an offer from Mako essentially for a backup plan in the event that I was pretty certain that I wouldn't be permanently hired.

This doesn't mean that I think I'm so good that I will receive two offers easily or that I intent on just 'using' a placement at a trading house just to spare time until I start an IB grad programme.

 

[arabianights]

No, there are no legal implications to being a jerk

Edit: If you are not, in fact, an arrogant jerk, then you need to work on how you come across.